shape
carat
color
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[HELP] Engagement rock

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Arag0n, Apr 8, 2019.

  1. Arag0n
    Rough_Rock

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    by Arag0n » Apr 8, 2019
    First of all I want to thank you guys for sharing your knowledge and advice on a noobie such as myself!

    I have already find all the performance for the proposal up in my mind, the only thing that is missing is the very key of it.... the engagement ring xD

    I have been already spending some time looking for the ideal stone/ring walking into many stores, but nothing I have seen so far have been able to suit my expectations.... maybe the market in the country is very limited or probably I'm not looking in the right places. So, I decided to jump at internet looking for it, and I found myself lost in the immense diversity of choice and my lack of knowledge isn't helping.

    I’m looking for a withe gold or platinum solitaire with a total budget of around EUR 4k (setting + diamond).
    The setting I think can be done at any jweler over here if necesary if I provide the rock as I didn't see any store working with +0,5ct stones, all engagement rings I have seen are under it.
    I am looking for something in the 0.7-0.85 carat range with I think is perfect for a 12 size ring.

    I am in Spain (Europe) so I think I will have to count whit some customs charges + taxes (IVA-VAT). (Around 2.5%+21% if I'm right, but not so sure).

    For the stone I know my couple is having great expectations and much more knowledge than me on the matter of quality and all that stuff (jewelry related family), so I think it should go the line of for example this one https://antwerpdiamonds.direct/en/diamondsearch/index/view/id/14432. Whitch to be honest I dontk know if it's good or not (Excl. VAT: €2,190.51 Incl. VAT: €2,650.52)

    I would so much appreciate if anyone could help me posting diamonds in my price range that represent a good balance amongst all the C’s and please feel free to provide all the guidance you can.


    Thank you in advance!!
     
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  2. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » Apr 8, 2019
    High Performance Diamonds is based in Antwerp and are one of the best cutters of Modern Round Brilliant diamonds you can find, I would say.

    They don't have a Spanish vendor but they sell through Fortrez in Belgium - so I don't think you'd have to pay import tax or Spanish VAT because both countries are in the EU? So you'd only pay the tax at the point of purchase? (Which is included within the prices listed??)
    http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/search/

    They have a 0.7 G VS2 for €3798.80 right now, which hits your size targets, but they also have a 0.66ct stones in G VS1 / D VS2 / E VS1 for 3255.51 / 3581.73 / 3737.46 respectively. 0.66 is only 0.1mm smaller than a 0.7, so you get all the visual size of a 0.7 but at much lower cost :)

    They have no images on the Fortrez website, but High Performance Diamonds is the main seller of Crafted by Infinity (CBI) stones in the USA (user 'Wink' on here runs it) and they have great images / videos!

    All the CBI sellers have access to the same inventory, so you could buy from HPD or Fortrez, whichever worked out slightly cheaper/easier for you. :)

    0.7 G VS2
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10719

    0.66 G VS1
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9845

    0.66 E VS1
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9663

    0.66 D VS2
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10388


    The stone you have linked to is graded by IGI - they are 'soft' when grading, which means you cannot guarantee the grading of colour or clarity is accurate (when compared to GIA and AGS, which are considered a lot more accurate).
     
    Last edited: Apr 8, 2019
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  3. Arag0n
    Rough_Rock

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    by Arag0n » May 6, 2019
    Thank you for the great response :D and my apologies for the late feedback! :wall:

    Even when I didn't reply I have been considering every recommendation you made!! THANKS!

    I feel more confortable by buying the diamond from inside EU just to avoid the customs and extra tax so most likely I will go trough fortrez, I have check on HDP but didn't manage to find videos or photos of the stones. :doh:

    Long time I have been looking at their inventory and even not being sure if it's necessary to go for "ideal" there I went.

    I have seen 2 rocks in particular (#1 and #2) one of witch could be the winner one, but I also like to post two more just to know if the price deference is worth it, or even to give you guys examples to tell me if it's better to go for color over clarity or any other recommendations you would like to give me. (in green my doubts)

    Please feel welcome to suggest me some other diamond options that I should be considering in your more expert advise, for sure it's gonna help to me a lot. I'm willing to learn :read:

    #1 - 0.7 G VS2 2019 (mentioned by @OoohShiny) €3798.80
    http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/10719/detail.htm
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10719
    Using this recommended one as reference. MAYBE IT'S THE ONE! :dance:

    #2 - 0.72 G VVS2 2019 €4177.32
    http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/10722/detail.htm
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10722
    Bit bigger and more clear. Worth the +€378.52?? The upgrade is noticeable in a 0.7 stone?? :think:

    #3 - 0.71 E VS1 2016 (medium blue fluo) €4319.73
    http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/8378/detail.htm
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD8378
    Comparing with #2... just better color G to E but smaller and less clarity. Just color justifies the rise en price? Is color that important? :confused:

    #4 - 0.7 D VS2 2017 (3D Available) €4704.25
    http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/9377/detail.htm
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD9377
    Going from G to D color... I need an 1k extra :hand: Wait a moment... from H up wasn't it colorless??? :errrr:

    THANK YOU :pray:
     
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  4. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » May 6, 2019
    The difference between .70 and .72 won't be noticible, and in my view paying for clarity above VS grades isn't needed (especially in a smaller stone).

    G+ is considered colorless . In a sub carat stone, you definitely don't need D/E/F color. G will be plenty white.
     
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  5. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » May 6, 2019
    I have clarity-freak issues ;-) lol, so I would personally probably try to find the extra for the VVS2 stone if I was happy with the G colour (which I think I would be, seeing as H or I is where most people start seeing tint, and smaller stones show less tint :) ).

    But then for only a little bit more, the E VS1 would 99.9% definitely be eye-clean and have that icy-white-ness of D/E colour stones, plus it has fluor, which is rare in CBI stones and could lift the colour in UV-rich environments like sunlight! $500 extra for 2 colour grades and 1 clarity grade improvement over the G VS2 seems like a steal to me, expecially when the D VS2 is $900 more for 3 colour grades higher... :)


    Stones with fluorescence currently trade at a discount because they are not 'in fashion', even though it only rarely causes any issues (and then only when you get to Strong and Very Strong grades), which is why the E VS1 is relatively cheaper - some people look down on fluor but it is a good way to bump up colour, clarity and carat size for a given budget :)
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
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  6. Arag0n
    Rough_Rock

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    by Arag0n » May 7, 2019
    Thank you both for enlighten me :appl:

    Allow me to double check on your assumptions, just in case there was some sarcasm I din't pick in the air :bigsmile: Gonna put it simplifying as much as I can...:boohoo:

    Looks like the #1 option is good enough and spending extra €€€ won't have such a noticeable impact to the eye besides the upgrades in the certificate, correct?

    Making it very brief... Looks like this stone have the right specifications but not at the right price, correct?

    Looks like €900 extra is fair price for the color upgrade, correct? (Asking for academic purposes because +900 goes to high for me anyways)

    Sooo @OoohShiny, you would go for the #2, but not for the #3 based not just in price but it clarity too, good you mentioned "having clarity-freak issues" :rodent: Am I right??

    THANK YOU GAIN, with this I think this week I will buy the stone :dance:and then...

    Then the setting decision it is... :doh:witch I'm quite sure about going for 6 prong but not so sure of anything else, specially because over here I can't see any settings mounted with 0.7 stones, all I have seen are going with 0.4-0.5 diamonds.... I will give some models to my trusted jeweler in town to make something similar in withe gold.

    https://www.bluenile.com/build-your...ing_71085?elem=img&track=product&vtype=sample
    https://www.bluenile.com/build-your...num_21202?elem=img&track=product&vtype=sample
    https://www.bluenile.com/build-your...num_55994?elem=img&track=product&vtype=sample
    https://www.bluenile.com/build-your...ing_38922?elem=img&track=product&vtype=sample

    Those ones looks nice to me, but I also have lack of knowledge on how the setting interfere with the light to make the stone look as shinny as possible. Some light over here oh wise ones?? :wall:

    THANK YOU!!!!
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2019
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  7. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » May 7, 2019
    I must apologise - I used a poor choice of words!

    When an item is 'a steal', it infers that the item has a low price and is a bargain / is inexpensive / that the buyer is almost stealing it :)

    When looking at more expensive options than the G VS2, I personally think the E VS1 is a bargain compared to the D VS2:
    - for $500 more than the G VS2, you have 2 colour upgrades and 1 clarity upgrade in the E VS1
    - for $900 more than the G VS2, you have 3 colour upgrades but no clarity upgrade in the D VS2

    $500 is much less than $900, so IMHO the E VS1 is 'a steal' / a bargain when compared to the D VS2 :)


    All of the stones should look beautiful and be eye-clean unless being examined extremely closely - and you would probably need a magnifying loupe to easily see the inclusions in the VVS2 and VS1 stone!

    Whatever your budget is, you can buy with confidence that the stone you choose will look lovely :)
     
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  8. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » May 7, 2019
    I would personally choose the G stone. But of course it's totally up to you! Definitely stick with HP diamonds to make you a setting rather than trying to get a setting elsewhere. Their bench is amazing and does great work. I personally love 6 prong solitaire settings, but some people feel that 4 prong is better for stones under 1ct.

    Edit. The reason I say to have HPD make the setting is that your stone is with them during setting, and since it's purchased from them you'll be protected in case anything rare happens (like the stone gets damaged during setting). It's rare but happens. If you take the stone to a jeweler in your town, you'll need to make sure the stone is insured under your policy, otherwise you aren't protected from damage/loss.
     
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  9. Arag0n
    Rough_Rock

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    by Arag0n » May 8, 2019
    Everything cristal clear now!! THANK YOU for the extra info @OoohShiny

    About getting all set form HPD directly comes to he game this "problem":

    It's gonna mean that even counting with the WIRE PRICE I'm gonna spend something like +€1000 just in customs and taxes when they send it to me.

    It has been the major reason to buy the stone at fortrez site (within EU and prices including the 21%) instead doing it directly at HPD from USA. If there is any other option that I might be missing there it's gonna be more than welcome!

    In addition after selecting the stone in HPD the setting I see in the options doesn't convince me... maybe i didnt look at the right place.

    Any advise about this will help me a lot, especially because I have been feeling that I'm getting concerned for nothing....

    Thank you very much, the excitement starts to be real (the end seems closer)
     
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  10. lovedogs
    Ideal_Rock

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    by lovedogs » May 8, 2019
    Edit bc I was confused. I think a 6 prong setting is always lovely and classic. But I still would have HPD or one of their partner vendors selling CBIs make the setting
     
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  11. OoohShiny
    Ideal_Rock

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    by OoohShiny » May 8, 2019
    Just to check, and taking #1 as an example...:

    #1 - 0.7 G VS2 2019
    http://www.fortrez.com/diamonds/detail/10719/detail.htm €3798.80
    https://www.hpdiamonds.com/en-us/diamonddetail/HPD10719 $3701

    Using https://www.xe.com/currencyconverter/convert/?Amount=3,701&From=USD&To=EUR:

    USD1 = EUR0.89
    >>
    USD3701 = EUR3304
    >>
    3304 * 2.5% = 82.6
    3304 * 21% = 693.84
    >>
    3304 + 82.6 + 693.84 = 4080.44

    So, having done all that, I think you are correct that it might be cheaper from Fortrez! :)

    (I am quite surprised by that - it is usually cheaper to buy from the USA!)
     
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  12. Arag0n
    Rough_Rock

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    by Arag0n » May 8, 2019
    I just contacted Fortrez asking them if it's posible to deliver the ring finished, as I couldn't find any setting options in their online info.

    Thanks for the advise @lovedogs
     
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  13. Arag0n
    Rough_Rock

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    by Arag0n » May 8, 2019
    It's even worse (not much) as it goes like that, Spanish government wanna take as much as possible :

    3304 * 2.5% = 82.6
    3304 + 82.6 = 3386.6
    3386.6 * 21% = 4.097.78

    Provably Fortrez have some kind of reduction or business exception that regular citizens haven't.
     
  14. kb1gra
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by kb1gra » May 8, 2019
    Guessing actually since the stones are cut in Antwerp that there is a trade tariff difference plus currency exchnange fluctuations that have to be hedges against.
     

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