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HELP! Don't want to get ripped off by my Jewelers

carbonquest

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
26
After a nightmare with the jeweller I'm with, I returned a stone and bought a new one from online (Stone B: 1.19 carat). They recommended the stone in Column C.
comparison_of_two_diamonds.jpg

The stone I purchased seems fine, but it had a shallow crown angle (33.5), but a great HCA score. The jewellers say that upon seeing the stone, it's "milky" (what does that even mean? It's a VS2, D colour - surely the milkiness will have no impact on brilliance and sparkle). And she decided to put in the 1.20 carat stone instead. I was obviously a little furious when I found out, but she explained she did it for my benefit.

The stone the jewellers recommend have an HCA score of 2.2 (my stone was 1.2). Additionally, the new stones GIA certificate suggests there is Internal Graining. But there are no 'Clouds' in the stone that they think is better.

Most of the dimensions are the same; but the one has a crown angle of 33.5 and the one they suggest has a steeper one of 35 (both with pavillion angle of 40.8, and both VS2 D colour and almost same Carat, GIA triple ex.).
How would these different crown angles affect the diamond brightness/scintillation/fire.


Please help, I'm not sure whether they are genuinely trying to sell me a better stone, or sell me a stone that is more flawed than my selection (thereby saving themselves some money).

PS. I am not able to view either stone yet. I have to act hastily as time is of the essence here.
 

LadyMCh

Shiny_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 30, 2016
Messages
318
Your stone should be your choice. Does Stone B have fluorescence? Occasionally, that causes a milky appearance.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,508
You should not be able to see milkiness in any kind of GIA-graded VS2. I'd say your jeweler just wants you to return the stone you bought online and buy from them.
 

carbonquest

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
26
Hi thanks for the quick replies; No - the Flourenence on both = NONE.

I chose the stone online, but they ordered it for me as they have the same supplier as the online Vendor I was looking at. (Therefore, they must have made even MORE money from me, since they were charging me the 'website price' rather than the price that they got from the wholesaler).

This is one of the many reasons I believe they are being very crafty. What about in terms of the Crown angles, Table % difference, and Comments by GIA.

Jewelers words "I suggest this one since the your one was a milky stone. If you want to buy a stone that is milky, that is totally up to you".
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,508
So BOTH stones were provided by them, but you selected the first? Have you seen the first in person?
 

carbonquest

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
26
The stone that I selected was from online (qualitydiamonds), but they use the same wholesale supplier that deal to qualitydiamonds, so they managed to get hold of the stone I selected (Same GIA certificate).

Their new stone is one they selected themselves. I have no idea where they got it from, or for How Much.

EDIT: I have seen neither in person. All I have is their differences on Paper
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,508
carbonquest|1478621848|4095209 said:
The stone that I selected was from online (qualitydiamonds), but they use the same wholesale supplier that deal to qualitydiamonds, so they managed to get hold of the stone I selected (Same GIA certificate).

Their new stone is one they selected themselves. I have no idea where they got it from, or for How Much.
So if you're buying both stones from them, I really can't fathom why they want you to get the second. A GIA VS2 with no fluorescence should not be milky - if it was milky, it would have been seriously, seriously misgraded. So, yeah, the only thing I can think of is that they have a higher profit margin on the second stone.

So you have not seen these stones in person? Can you not run down to the store and have them show you both, making sure they clean both in front of you so that there's no haze or film of dirt or oil on the first?
 

carbonquest

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
26
7. Table percent 54-57 super ideal (can have variation from this if you aren't looking to pay a huge premium for a super ideal stone)
8. Depth percent 61-62.5 super ideal (can have variation from this if you aren't looking to pay a huge premium for a super ideal stone)
9. Pavilion angle 40.6-41.0 super ideal (can have variation from this if you aren't looking to pay a huge premium for a super ideal stone)
10. Crown angle 34.0-35.0 super ideal (can have variation from this if you aren't looking to pay a huge premium for a super ideal stone)
Thank you. Their stone has a super ideal crown angle, and nearer to ideal depth percentage. I know it's hard to say, but is it a *noticeable* difference. I agree with your post in saying that they are trying to make a greater profit margin. I am just wondering if their selection is actually better.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,508
carbonquest|1478623431|4095226 said:
I am just wondering if their selection is actually better.
I would trust the HCA score on that, and it says their selection is not better.
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
HOW FLUORESCENCE AFFECTS PRICE. A chart I found online. Information not 100% current, but it should show you the trend how as a client buys a stone with a higher clarity, the presence of blue fluorescence to a stronger degree is viewed more negatively. While clarity has no bearing on the appearance of color and fluorescence, it does impact price. This is because customers who gravitate towards higher clarity tend to be more adverse to the presence of fluorescence. This is also why if you give a dealer very basic specs without mentioning fluorescence, he/she is going to bring in a stone with high fluorescence and sell it to you at the same price because he/she will get the stone 5-10% cheaper. The rule in the industry is: buy for what you have to, and sell for what you can!

V. STRONG STRONG MEDIUM FAINT
D - F IF - VVS2 -10 to -15% -7 to -10% -3 to -7% -1%
VS1 - VS2 -6 to -10% -3 to -5% -1 to -2% 0%
SI1 - I3 0 to -3% 0 to -1% 0% 0%

G - H IF - VVS2 -7 to -10% -5 to -7% -1 to -3% -1%
VS1 - VS2 -3 to -5% -2 to -3% 0 to -2% 0%
SI1 - I3 0% 0% 0% 0%

I - M IF - I3 0 to +2% 0 to +2% 0 to +2% 0%
 

chrono

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 22, 2004
Messages
37,467
Stupid question, but you specifically prefer a 60/60 style diamond?
 

carbonquest

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
26
No, I don't specifically prefer one. But it beats the (original) 1.00 carat gia GOOD cut they tried to sell me (with a table of 65%!!!), back when I had no knowledge of diamonds.


They've already imported the Diamond from overseas, and I feel bad for upgrading it AGAIN. If I had to choose from a clean selection, I'd go with WHITEFLASH H&A Super Ideal cut, as I mainly care about the appearance of the stone.

I'm just trying to pick a stone that gets me closer to the most ideal cut possible. On a seperate note; I just spoke to an independent Jeweler who said that their selection (he felt) had a better combination of Crown& Pavillion, and Table&Depth combinations.
That was his opinion. I'm literally torn!!!
 

mixprints

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 16, 2016
Messages
13
go with what *you* picked
Honestly - I had a shallower crown before and the fire was insane and I hand picked it against more "ideal" proportions (it was just under your size with similar stats)
You'll just be left bitter that you were stuck with them AND had to go with the stone they picked.

Even more so, I would get reimbursed and buy online at that point if that is a possibility because they are being so pushy
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,386
mixprints|1478640703|4095392 said:
Honestly - I had a shallower crown before and the fire was insane
That's interesting - that goes against everything I've read on here.


OP - can you get high-quality macro pictures of the stones? You are effectively 'buying blind' without any pictures or IS or ASETscope.
 

carbonquest

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
26
update: jeweller said that they returned it in belgium, and didn't even buy the one I picked.

She refuses to give a full refund.


She says she cant buy the Whiteflash stone that I liked, because "I can't get this stone. I don't have access for that stone".


She says she can set the 1.20 gia triple x that she's recommended, for Friday.
 

ElizabethR

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
313
So, you haven't seen any of these stones and yet they are refusing to give a refund? I'd say do all you can to get your refund (call credit card company if needed) and run as fast as you can. Just my opinion.
All the best
 

farrahlyn

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,170
She won't be able to purchase the WF Stone if its an in house stone.

This jeweler seems like she's pulling some shady stuff. I mean, first time around, your stone fell out of the setting! :shock: the first diamond she sold you was WAY subpar, WOW. And now instead of ordering the stone YOU chose, she's ordered a totally different stone without consulting with you. First of all, what is her return policy? What did you agree when you returned the first stone? Did you keep the setting or did you return the setting and stone? Did you put down a deposit or pay in full for the stone she's now got on order?

I'd have SERIOUS issues with working with her any further and would look at my options in getting out of this purchase. you need to look at their return policies first. Take your business elsewhere, she clearly doesn't deserve your business.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
You didn't get what you paid for, she has no right to not give you a refund. Item not as described.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,845
You need to do whatever you can to get a refund. I would have no trust in this jeweler.
The jeweler can buy the Whiteflash stone if it is in-house just like you or I can go and buy it...
the problem is she has to pay retail just like you and me. I'm sure she is not willing to do that.

This jeweler really seems unethical. :(
 

n64bomb

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 8, 2015
Messages
91
Get your money back and move on. That jeweler is just trying to take advantage of you. If you need to, contest with your credit card company and you can file a report with jeweler's ethical groups. Don't let them bully you into buying with them just because they may have ordered in 1-2 stones for you (which they might have only ordered 1 or less of those stones). That doesn't entitle them to a sale--that is just a cost of business if they can't make a sale due to their own lack of ethics. The fault is on them.

In the future, get a 10x image or see in person any stone you are considering. Also, get an aset or idealscope, and only consider GIA/AGSL stones.
 

distracts

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Oct 11, 2011
Messages
5,508
n64bomb|1478743974|4096139 said:
Get your money back and move on. That jeweler is just trying to take advantage of you. If you need to, contest with your credit card company and you can file a report with jeweler's ethical groups. Don't let them bully you into buying with them just because they may have ordered in 1-2 stones for you (which they might have only ordered 1 or less of those stones). That doesn't entitle them to a sale--that is just a cost of business if they can't make a sale due to their own lack of ethics. The fault is on them.
This.
 

carbonquest

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 4, 2016
Messages
26
UPDATE: Thanks for your advice!

Yes, they were mucking me about. Upon asking for a refund they refused. I eventually sat and refused to move until we came to a conclusion. In the end they refunded me £5300 for the 1.00 GIA good, (effectively meaning the Band cost me £1,850 - which was a a bit dear but hey - I was fed up by then).

They eventually allowed me to order my Whiteflash stone
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3754132.htm

which they will set for me when I deliver it to them. They said they cannot do a full refund because the policy is "30 days", but the stone fell out after approx 45 days. Once they've set it I think I'll make a formal complaint, but for now I just want a stone set in the ring!.

PS. What do you think of the 1.22 FVS2 from whiteflash? GIA good to Triple excellent I've read is a good jump, as is GIA triple excellent to A Cut Above from WF. So, since my fiance was used to the GIA Good, I'm hoping that the ACA will blow her mind.
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Looks beautiful.

Being in the UK I'd be grateful to know who this jeweller is! I hope not in the Birmingham Jewellery Quarter.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
'They allowed you to order from Whiteflash???' they don't allow you it is nothing to do with them. Remember you have to add 20% VAT and 2% custom plus your FedEx charge.
 
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