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HELP! DECISION BETWEEN 2 Diamonds

The 1.51 is a really beautiful stone but that crystal on the table really bugs me and i'm not a clarity snob. i prefer the smaller table on the 1.4 as well. for those reaosns i'd more than likely choose the 1.4ct
 
How bad does a crystal on the table look in person?? Is it very obvious?
 
It totally depends on placement and size. AND on the person looking. some people have eagle eyes and can spot a small inclusion whereas some of us wouldn't be able to spot it without really looking hard.

If you look at the images on the enchanteddiamonds site, the crystal is reflected a good bit. if it was more off to the side rather than right smack dab in the middle of the table it probably wouldn't bother me as much. No way to know if it's visible in real life without seeing it for yourself in person or having it examined.
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...1-Carat-G-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-267172604

I'm torn. it could be totally fine.
 
farrahlyn said:
It totally depends on placement and size. AND on the person looking. some people have eagle eyes and can spot a small inclusion whereas some of us wouldn't be able to spot it without really looking hard.

If you look at the images on the enchanteddiamonds site, the crystal is reflected a good bit. if it was more off to the side rather than right smack dab in the middle of the table it probably wouldn't bother me as much. No way to know if it's visible in real life without seeing it for yourself in person or having it examined.
https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamo...1-Carat-G-Color-VS2-Clarity-Diamond-267172604

I'm torn. it could be totally fine.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help! Appreciate all the information I'm getting :)

The PRO is that I can go up in CT size and COLOR but yes the crystal on the table might look bad :(

I really wish there was a better video or angle picture of the diamond
 
I Wouldn’t do the 1.5 because it is a dark inclusion. You are Asian and I would worry it would be like the mark of death lol for her social group.

And with the 1.4 she can say it’s flawless.

My opinion only.
 
haha! it's funny because you make such a valid point. Will order the 1.4 today and i'll upload pics once I get it!
 
Steve88 said:
haha! it's funny because you make such a valid point. Will order the 1.4 today and i'll upload pics once I get it!
Click to expand...

And hand shots after she says yes!!
 
What are the specks I'm seeing on the 1.4? Thought maybe it was surface graining at first. In the notes on the report, it states "minor polishing not shown" so maybe that's it? Whatever, it does appear minor. I'm just curious more than anything. Have you asked BN?

Many will prefer the smaller 55 table of the 1.4 as well. And the angles on the 1.4 are amazing. Basically, you are within an ideal range even if consider the values shown on the GIA are averaged.

There is only 0.15mm difference between the face up size of the stones. Typically it takes 0.20mm before people start to see any size difference, so in this case I think it just sounds better when you say 1.5 carats vs 1.4 carats but there is no appreciable or significant size difference that is viewable with normal human eyes.

Only negative I can see is the 1.4 is an H instead of the G like the 1.5. Both stones have fluor, but the 1.5 only has medium blue. The 1.4 has strong blue. But given the angles of the 1.4, it appears that stone should be so well cut the strong fluor won't hurt it, but rather enhance the color and probably make it look like a G. However, it will also show more blue or glow under extreme UV light.

AGS proportions charts for both stones....

1.4 H IF
Capture.PNG

1.51 G VS2
Capture2.PNG
 
sledge said:
What are the specks I'm seeing on the 1.4? Thought maybe it was surface graining at first. In the notes on the report, it states "minor polishing not shown" so maybe that's it? Whatever, it does appear minor. I'm just curious more than anything. Have you asked BN?

Many will prefer the smaller 55 table of the 1.4 as well. And the angles on the 1.4 are amazing. Basically, you are within an ideal range even if consider the values shown on the GIA are averaged.

There is only 0.15mm difference between the face up size of the stones. Typically it takes 0.20mm before people start to see any size difference, so in this case I think it just sounds better when you say 1.5 carats vs 1.4 carats but there is no appreciable or significant size difference that is viewable with normal human eyes.

Only negative I can see is the 1.4 is an H instead of the G like the 1.5. Both stones have fluor, but the 1.5 only has medium blue. The 1.4 has strong blue. But given the angles of the 1.4, it appears that stone should be so well cut the strong fluor won't hurt it, but rather enhance the color and probably make it look like a G. However, it will also show more blue or glow under extreme UV light.

AGS proportions charts for both stones....

1.4 H IF
Capture.PNG

1.51 G VS2
Capture2.PNG
Click to expand...

Wow thanks for the amazing feedback. This gives me so much more faith in the 1.4 I'm leaning towards purchasing. I also saw those specks and I didn't think much of it. If the grade is an IF, shouldn't it be speck-less?? I've been going back and forth with the BN rep so I'll certainly bring it up.

As long as the fluoro goes, @sledge should I be worried about it being overly blue in the sun? Like posted above, I'm Asian and I brought this up to one of her Asian friends and she's strongly opposed to me getting this 1.4 because of the strong fluoro. But I disagree with her since a H color can be helped by the strong fluoro like you've said.

I don't know much about angles and proportions but it gives me reassurance when you say that the angles and cut is amazing.

btw @sledge, how does one read the AGS proportion chart, and what does it show? Total noob learning all this on the fly.

Cheers
 
I think the specks on the 1.4 are dust. Vendors have posted here about how hard it is to keep a diamond dust free while photographing it.
 
My first engagement ring was a D color with strong blue Fluor (and I mean super strong) and I had it for about 20 years before I ever knew it. I bought a loupe with a UV light since reading on here and that is when I found it out. Lol
 
whitewave said:
I think the specks on the 1.4 are dust. Vendors have posted here about how hard it is to keep a diamond dust free while photographing it.
Click to expand...

I hope its just dust! I'm already in love with this particular diamond

whitewave said:
My first engagement ring was a D color with strong blue Fluor (and I mean super strong) and I had it for about 20 years before I ever knew it. I bought a loupe with a UV light since reading on here and that is when I found it out. Lol
Click to expand...

ah that's good! Her Asian friends are not impressed with strong fluoro though.. but I don't care as long as I inspect it in person and its not overly blue!
 
Have they seen strong blue fluoro diamonds before? I was them (I mean like those friends) before I saw some recently and now I’m a total convert to fluoro.

Pls also buy a UV light :lol:
 
icy_jade said:
Have they seen strong blue fluoro? I was them before I saw some recently and now I’m a total convert to fluoro.

Pls also buy a UV light :lol:
Click to expand...

One of them actually has a faint blue diamond and she's telling me that strong blue is too much. But I disagreed and tried telling her that it would help a H color diamond look whiter but she was not having it lol
 
IMG_3219.PNGIMG_2903.JPG

It’s a cool party trick. (It’s a pendant now)
 
whitewave said:
IMG_3219.PNGIMG_2903.JPG

It’s a cool party trick. (It’s a pendant now)
Click to expand...

that's actually pretty cool! (but of course its a guys perspective). I honestly don't care about UV lights or it being blue in front of black lights. As long as its not crazy blue under the sun, I think she'll love it.

The BN diamond specialist said that it'll be a hint of blue in the sun and that the diamond vault manager will verify and get back to me tomorrow.
 
Steve88 said:
Wow thanks for the amazing feedback. This gives me so much more faith in the 1.4 I'm leaning towards purchasing. I also saw those specks and I didn't think much of it. If the grade is an IF, shouldn't it be speck-less?? I've been going back and forth with the BN rep so I'll certainly bring it up.

As long as the fluoro goes, @sledge should I be worried about it being overly blue in the sun? Like posted above, I'm Asian and I brought this up to one of her Asian friends and she's strongly opposed to me getting this 1.4 because of the strong fluoro. But I disagree with her since a H color can be helped by the strong fluoro like you've said.

I don't know much about angles and proportions but it gives me reassurance when you say that the angles and cut is amazing.

btw @sledge, how does one read the AGS proportion chart, and what does it show? Total noob learning all this on the fly.

Cheers
Click to expand...

You're welcome!

Some more info on the chart.
  • Upper left defines the table size.
  • Top & bottom row of values is the crown angle (CA)
  • Left & right column of values is the pavilion angle (PA)
  • Once you identify the correct chart for the given table size of a diamond, you then identify the CA and PA and draw lines to where they intersect. In a perfect world, that is the approximate cut of your stone.
  • A more complex answer requires we look at GIA grading. They utilize 2D models to gain average values and then the CA & PA values we see on the GIA report are an "averaged" value of all the individual values. So in reality, depending where specifically in the model you look, the PA might be 40.95 or 41.40 but on the report they show as 41.
  • Keeping the above in mind, I then draw a box going out 1 magnitude in each direction that shows where you diamond could potentially land in regards to cut quality.
  • The charts are not a hard & fast rule, but they are a good rule of thumb.
  • Many people prefer AGS certified stones for the fact AGS scans each individual stone and uses 3D modeling to report their values, and as such can then more accurately assign a cut value (ideal 0 is the best).
  • But with the current limitations of GIA's 2D modeling and averaging of values, the proportions charts help us approximate where a cut may land if done properly.
  • So in this specific case, your angles put you deep in the ideal territory meaning even if something isn't exactly perfect, you still have an excellent chance of having a well cut stone. If you are on the fringe of the ideal zone, then there is a higher chance you may get an unsatisfactory cut (as many don't see excellent or very good as the true value their name indicates).
Some good reading about crown & pavilion angles. Basically when you have the right combo, light filters in hits the angle and reflects back out causing the diamond to sparkle.

https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/crown-angle/

InkedGIA_LI.jpg

Here's some more information concerning the table sizes that may be useful as well. As long as you are in a preferred table size (optimum for hearts & arrows stones is 54-57%, but 53-58% is allowed) that is what matters the most. Having a 54 or 57 table is preference of the individual and what their eyes like the best.

https://beyond4cs.com/grading/depth-and-table-values/
https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/pavilion-depth-table/
http://www.heartsandarrows.com/hearts-arrows-diamond-ideal-cut-dna.aspx

In regards to fluor, I think you should read this page and watch the following videos. Fluor is a love/hate thing it seems. A very small percentage of diamonds actually reflect the negative side effects of fluor and as such, many people highly seek them out. Still, if you expose them to black light they will glow. And there could be a bluish hue in direct sunlight. Like most things with a diamond, I think some of it depends on your sensitivity and pickiness. I personally like fluor for the positives you talked about, and with your stone appearing to be so well cut I don't think you will have issues.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/



Also, here is a pic from a recent thread discussing the effects of strong fluor:

f7b00c15-2d67-45bc-8a99-fececb291629-jpeg.637322



whitewave said:
I think the specks on the 1.4 are dust. Vendors have posted here about how hard it is to keep a diamond dust free while photographing it.
Click to expand...

Very possible, and probably a logical explanation.

I even noticed the diamond was sitting on a white surface that had some of dark specks in it and thought maybe it was somehow reflecting back on the diamond. I doubt that was seriously it, but was stretching for reasons.

I've seen an IF in-person and it didn't have those specks even under magnification. So while I think it's a minor issue, I would want clarification.


whitewave said:
My first engagement ring was a D color with strong blue Fluor (and I mean super strong) and I had it for about 20 years before I ever knew it. I bought a loupe with a UV light since reading on here and that is when I found it out. Lol
Click to expand...

LOL, this made me chuckle out loud! :lol: :lol:
 
sledge said:
You're welcome!

Some more info on the chart.
  • Upper left defines the table size.
  • Top & bottom row of values is the crown angle (CA)
  • Left & right column of values is the pavilion angle (PA)
  • Once you identify the correct chart for the given table size of a diamond, you then identify the CA and PA and draw lines to where they intersect. In a perfect world, that is the approximate cut of your stone.
  • A more complex answer requires we look at GIA grading. They utilize 2D models to gain average values and then the CA & PA values we see on the GIA report are an "averaged" value of all the individual values. So in reality, depending where specifically in the model you look, the PA might be 40.95 or 41.40 but on the report they show as 41.
  • Keeping the above in mind, I then draw a box going out 1 magnitude in each direction that shows where you diamond could potentially land in regards to cut quality.
  • The charts are not a hard & fast rule, but they are a good rule of thumb.
  • Many people prefer AGS certified stones for the fact AGS scans each individual stone and uses 3D modeling to report their values, and as such can then more accurately assign a cut value (ideal 0 is the best).
  • But with the current limitations of GIA's 2D modeling and averaging of values, the proportions charts help us approximate where a cut may land if done properly.
  • So in this specific case, your angles put you deep in the ideal territory meaning even if something isn't exactly perfect, you still have an excellent chance of having a well cut stone. If you are on the fringe of the ideal zone, then there is a higher chance you may get an unsatisfactory cut (as many don't see excellent or very good as the true value their name indicates).
Some good reading about crown & pavilion angles. Basically when you have the right combo, light filters in hits the angle and reflects back out causing the diamond to sparkle.

https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/crown-angle/

InkedGIA_LI.jpg

Here's some more information concerning the table sizes that may be useful as well. As long as you are in a preferred table size (optimum for hearts & arrows stones is 54-57%, but 53-58% is allowed) that is what matters the most. Having a 54 or 57 table is preference of the individual and what their eyes like the best.

https://beyond4cs.com/grading/depth-and-table-values/
https://www.prosumerdiamonds.com/pavilion-depth-table/
http://www.heartsandarrows.com/hearts-arrows-diamond-ideal-cut-dna.aspx

In regards to fluor, I think you should read this page and watch the following videos. Fluor is a love/hate thing it seems. A very small percentage of diamonds actually reflect the negative side effects of fluor and as such, many people highly seek them out. Still, if you expose them to black light they will glow. And there could be a bluish hue in direct sunlight. Like most things with a diamond, I think some of it depends on your sensitivity and pickiness. I personally like fluor for the positives you talked about, and with your stone appearing to be so well cut I don't think you will have issues.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/brian-gavins-blue-diamonds-with-fluorescence/



Also, here is a pic from a recent thread discussing the effects of strong fluor:

f7b00c15-2d67-45bc-8a99-fececb291629-jpeg.637322





Very possible, and probably a logical explanation.

I even noticed the diamond was sitting on a white surface that had some of dark specks in it and thought maybe it was somehow reflecting back on the diamond. I doubt that was seriously it, but was stretching for reasons.

I've seen an IF in-person and it didn't have those specks even under magnification. So while I think it's a minor issue, I would want clarification.




LOL, this made me chuckle out loud! :lol: :lol:
Click to expand...

Thank you! I got a lot of reading to do! I'm definitely calling the BN rep back and getting clarifications on those specks. So what do ideal angles really help with? More brilliance and shine?
 
Steve88 said:
Thank you! I got a lot of reading to do! I'm definitely calling the BN rep back and getting clarifications on those specks. So what do ideal angles really help with? More brilliance and shine?
Click to expand...

Correct. The angles tell us how good (or bad) a stone is cut. As is you are deeply seeded in ideal territory meaning it's an excellent indicator you have an extremely well cut stone.

You can, and should, ask for an ASET, idealscope and H&A images. Very doubtful BN or their suppliers can provide but they may be able to give you something. The ASET and idealscope images would help confirm the angles and brilliance of the stone. The hearts and arrows images would confirm the symmetry.

If no images are available I would either buy my own scopes to confirm our thoughts, or take to a local jeweler that has the scopes and can confirm (and let you see) everything.

If for some reason those images are out of whack you return and start over. FYI you can only get the hearts image on an unmounted stone.
 
sledge said:
Correct. The angles tell us how good (or bad) a stone is cut. As is you are deeply seeded in ideal territory meaning it's an excellent indicator you have an extremely well cut stone.

You can, and should, ask for an ASET, idealscope and H&A images. Very doubtful BN or their suppliers can provide but they may be able to give you something. The ASET and idealscope images would help confirm the angles and brilliance of the stone. The hearts and arrows images would confirm the symmetry.

If no images are available I would either buy my own scopes to confirm our thoughts, or take to a local jeweler that has the scopes and can confirm (and let you see) everything.

If for some reason those images are out of whack you return and start over. FYI you can only get the hearts image on an unmounted stone.
Click to expand...

So I just spoke to the BN specialist and they are going to request an ASET, Idealscope images and they said that they'll most likely send it to me today. Sorry for the noob question but what exactly do I look for in an ASET and Idealscope image?

Also, @sledge & @whitewave you guys were 100 percent spot on. The specks in the diamond picture is actually dirt and dust and they told me that it was unacceptable for them to put a picture of that quality up so they will send me new images of the diamond along with the ASET and Idealscope images. I've got to say that I'm very impressed with Blue Nile's customer service so far.

As the fluoro goes, she also contacted the vendor and they responded saying that it is eye clean and it does not have oily or and milkyness to the diamond. She did say the diamond might have a slight blue tint in the sun but I think my gf can live with that if she got a 1.4 ct IF grade diamond :)

All of you guys have been so much help! I'll update you guys in a little bit when they send me over all the new information!

Cheers
 
Steve88 said:
So I just spoke to the BN specialist and they are going to request an ASET, Idealscope images and they said that they'll most likely send it to me today. Sorry for the noob question but what exactly do I look for in an ASET and Idealscope image?

Also, @sledge & @whitewave you guys were 100 percent spot on. The specks in the diamond picture is actually dirt and dust and they told me that it was unacceptable for them to put a picture of that quality up so they will send me new images of the diamond along with the ASET and Idealscope images. I've got to say that I'm very impressed with Blue Nile's customer service so far.

As the fluoro goes, she also contacted the vendor and they responded saying that it is eye clean and it does not have oily or and milkyness to the diamond. She did say the diamond might have a slight blue tint in the sun but I think my gf can live with that if she got a 1.4 ct IF grade diamond :)

All of you guys have been so much help! I'll update you guys in a little bit when they send me over all the new information!

Cheers
Click to expand...

Cool, keep us posted.
 
Steve88 said:
that's actually pretty cool! (but of course its a guys perspective). I honestly don't care about UV lights or it being blue in front of black lights. As long as its not crazy blue under the sun, I think she'll love it.

The BN diamond specialist said that it'll be a hint of blue in the sun and that the diamond vault manager will verify and get back to me tomorrow.
Click to expand...
My diamond is sbf and I usually see no blue at all. My avatar pic is about as blue as it ever gets, except for in a particular type/intensity of sunlight that is rare even in my super sunny town.
 
scarsmum said:
My diamond is sbf and I usually see no blue at all. My avatar pic is about as blue as it ever gets, except for in a particular type/intensity of sunlight that is rare even in my super sunny town.
Click to expand...

that's a beautiful ring!
 
Was just writing a post saying I was traveling but will be stationary and would review.

Let me be very clear -- hell to the no on an IGI cert. Might be beautiful but who knows as IGI is garbage.

And I'm impressed with BN. Totally different experience on another thread. Glad to see them doing you right.

Post the images and we will review. ;)2
 
Wow I had no clue IGI had that bad of a rep! I'm guessing their guidelines aren't as strict as GIA??
 
Steve88 said:
Wow I had no clue IGI had that bad of a rep! I'm guessing their guidelines aren't as strict as GIA??
Click to expand...

Correct. I'm sure at some point when they started they had great intentions. But somewhere along the way, their grading got very lenient. So you really can't trust what an IGI cert says. You typically see a lot of mall stores like Helzberg's and similar use them because their (crap, IMO) stones come back at higher grades than if GIA/AGS graded them and they can charge their customers more money.

On a different note, I sense this carat weight thing may be bothering you so let's address it.

To determine weight, we need to be cognizant of the fact we must first obtain volume which is taken by multiplying the length (L) by the width (W) in the horizontal plane by the depth (D) in the vertical plane and then multiplying that summation by a factor of 0.0061. As a formula, it looks like this:
  • L x W x D x 0.0061 = Approximate Carat Weight
And now we will test the formula on your actual 1.4 IF stone using actual dimensions obtained from the GIA certificate:
  • 7.13mm x 7.18mm x 4.44mm x 0.0061 = 1.38ct
As you can see, it's not a perfect but gets us close. I mentioned all this to say that carat weight involves both the horizontal and vertical planes. So while it may sound more impressive to say you have a 1.5 carat stone, the reality is that part of that carat weight is "hidden" in the vertical plane that no one will actually see. Only the horizontal plane will be visible.

So rather than get hung up on carat weight, it's a good idea to compare your L x W measurements to other stones. Sometimes a heavier stone has smaller L x W dimensions than a stone of lighter weight. I encountered this when buying my stone for my girl. I bought a 0.867ct stone that measured larger than a 0.90 carat stone. The difference was minimal, but the point remains.

Another key factor to consider is that it takes about 0.20mm difference for the human eye to notice the size increase. Recently there was a thread where someone noted much less difference and swore it was super noticeable to her. I call BS, but maybe she has has eagle eyes and is an outlier. The majority of us cannot see a difference until we hit around that 0.20mm mark.

Food for thought:
  • 1.40ct = 7.13 x 7.18
  • 1.51ct = 7.30 x 7.33 with a difference of 0.17 x 0.15
  • 1.54ct = 7.36 x 7.43 with a difference of 0.23 x 0.25
  • 0.20mm = 0.0078 inches
  • 1/128th inch = 0.0078 inches
And even as you start to notice a slight difference between the 1.40 and 1.54ct stones, the main reason is because they are side by side. Without the side by side I would argue you probably wouldn't know the difference as there is only 1/128th of an inch difference.

https://www.diamdb.com/compare/1.4ct-round-7.13x7.18x4.44-vs-1.51ct-round-7.3x7.33x4.51

Capture.PNG

https://www.diamdb.com/compare/1.4ct-round-7.13x7.18x4.44-vs-1.54ct-round-7.36x7.43x4.57

Capture2.PNG
 
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