Help choosing a diamond

[KA]

Hello All,

I am going to start a new post, since the old subject line is no longer appropriate for the questions I want to ask. My previous post is at
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/advise-about-color-clarity-trade-off.163213/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/advise-about-color-clarity-trade-off.163213/[/URL]

Let me start by saying that you people are awesome. I am totally addicted to this site and to my diamond search, to the detriment of my real job. But this has helped me a lot, and I think my fiance and I are on our way to getting something. Though he is getting impatient, so we want to order a diamond this week.

So, to recap, I have ordered some idealscope images from james allan, and have also asked some local jewelers for idealscope images of the diamonds they are offering. I am hoping to get them all this week. I will post and ask for advise when I get them. In the meanwhile I am trying to educate myself on how to read the things and have read the good old gold tutorial and the tutorial on this site. However, I have been looking at brian gavin and white flash, and wanted to get your opinions on some diamonds there. They are just a little bit over budget, but I we can stretch if these are absolutely great.

So here they are
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2640834.htm

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-104050449010

Could you give your opinions about these and what you think are the differences, advantages, drawbacks among these. I must appear ignorant, and you have probably answered these types of questions before, but I am a total geek, and need to understand everything I can about this now, since my curiosity has been piqued.

 

[Verdy]

You've progressed quite a bit from your last post! A smaller, and ideal cut stone will give you more bang for your buck than a larger stone with a lesser quality cut. Oh, and just for reference, I'm also a size 5, and I find that even a .80 ct stone looks huge on my finger. When I went to look around at local jewelry stores, I found that a 1 ct from a store called Finks (high end store, better quality stones) faced up much prettier and bigger than a 1ct from Zales (looked more like a .50 ct). Just goes to show how important cut is when deciding on a diamond. If she has slender fingers, the stone will seem much bigger than it is! Good luck!

ETA: I personally prefer Brian Gavin, since their solitaire settings are a little less pricey than the ones from Whiteflash, if you mention a Pricescope discount they will give you a 2% off the setting, and a 2% off the wire price.

 

[nfowife]

First, I would be concerned about if the WF stone is eye-clean. Since it doesn't specifically state it on the page and many of their stones do state this- why doesn't this one? The plot on the certificate looks quite clean, in terms of location of the feathers, but I would double check.
Also do you want H&A or is it not important to you? The BGD is his top cut line H&A, the WF stone is an expert selection.

 

[KA]

I asked the whiteflash people, and they said that it was eye-clean. I haven't really seen any H&A diamonds, but I don't feel like I need to have it. I mean, it would be great if it was H&A, but sparkle is more important to me, and I understand that H&A and sparkle are not necessarily correlated. Do you guys think that H&A is more likely to sparkle more?

If you have suggestions for other diamonds that may work, please let me know. As I said, I have some idealscope stuff coming from JA. The specs are ideal cut, 0.9 and above, H and above, SI1 and above (or eye clean SI2, but they seem rare).

 

[nfowife]

Is this one of the ones from JA?
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1338412.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131

Also this from WF, check for eye clean, but it's their ACA (top cut, H&A), and it's a G:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2632203.htm

 

[Verdy]

Good Old Gold has several videos that compare H&A diamonds next to other diamonds under different lighting conditions. Here's a link for you of one:

http://www.vimeo.com/15208893

And here's the rest of them, if you're interested!

http://goodoldgold.com/Diamond_Videos/



Hope that helped out a little!

 

[stone-cold11]

First, I would be concerned about if the WF stone is eye-clean. Since it doesn't specifically state it on the page and many of their stones do state this- why doesn't this one? The plot on the certificate looks quite clean, in terms of location of the feathers, but I would double check.
Also do you want H&A or is it not important to you? The BGD is his top cut line H&A, the WF stone is an expert selection.

Probably just no one has ask this stone to be check out for eye-cleanliness. Just call and ask.

 

[KA]

The one you suggested from whiteflash (the G, H&A) is not eye clean, they said. That one from James Allen is not one of the ones I asked for, since when I requested those, we were still planning to stay under 7000, if possible. We would still like to do that, but stretching by 500 dollars to get something awesome is ok. I can't request that one from JA, since they only allow 3, and I have already requested 3.

 

[Verdy]

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040376130004

http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040399230051

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2544704.htm

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1379638.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1362093.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1304549.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1362922.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1324906.asp

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/F-SI2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1361563.asp

Options!

 

[KA]

Thanks for all the suggestions. I am having a hard time figuring out which ones are better/worse. For example, in the ASET images, does the green in the middle mean that there is leakage from the middle of the stone, or is that normal? How would I be able to tell this from the idealscope image when I get them from JA. When I look at both ASET and idealscope images, I think I can see some light pink in the middle in the idealscope images, but it doesn't seem to be always correlated. How should I look at these and compare and decide which one to get? Should I not worry about the green in the ASET image?

I looked at the light tutorial, and it was pretty cool. But I can't see the diamonds in person, so will have to figure out how to make the decisions just based on idealscope and other images. Going out and looking at diamonds is not an option for me this week, and we really want to get something this week.

So if you guys have opinions about which one of these you would buy if you were in the market and in my situation, and why, that should help me a lot.

 

[Verdy]

I was also concerned about a green center when I was looking for a diamond, so I searched it up here and found out that many people had asked about it. The ultimate answer was: no, it's nothing to be concerned about. From the videos that I've seen on GOG, you need a bit of everything in a diamond, blue, red, and even green. Rest assured that an ACA or a BGD H&A will both be top quality diamonds with tight parameters. You could probably pick out one from either category (assuming it's eye clean) and be confident that it will be beautiful. Expert Selection from Whiteflash is also great if you're looking for a top quality diamond but without the price tag. I spoke to someone at Whiteflash about each of the categories and was told that ACAs are their top performers, and Expert Selection diamonds were cut to be ACAs, but fell short (very strict grading between the two - even something tiny will exclude the diamond from being ACA). Just be sure to choose something that you are both comfortable with, use the HCA to your advantage and weed out diamonds that you might not want to consider.

 

[Liam-Spillane]

Be careful of "eye clean" SI2s. The diamond may be eye clean from the top view, but not the side view. You might be able to see the inclusion from the side view and be disappointed for life. All they mean by "eye clean" are no visable inclusions from the "top view" looking "causually" at it from 12" away with 20/20 vision. I personally would look for SI1s or VS2s graded by GIA or AGS.

SI1s are eye clean from all angles most of the time, VS2s almost all of the time (for RBs diamonds.)

 

[KA]

Yes, I think we might restrict ourselves to SI1 and better, just so we don't get something, see something and then have to return it. I suppose that could happen with SI1 too, but at least the probability is smaller.

Again, if any of you have preferences among the various BG and WF diamonds, which are all H SI1 and ideal cut, please let me know. Should I just go for the h&a diamond? How would you look at all the idealscopes and tell which one is "better?". I won't necessarily take your advise, so don't worry about the responsibility.

 

[Verdy]

Going for an H&A is really up to you, I would if I were you seeing as you have some great options to do so. The first BGD on the list scored 1.2 on the HCA (anything under 2.0 is usually worth it). It earned excellent in all the categories except spread, but for most diamonds that's normal too. I read about it somewhere on here, so it's no huge worry. With that diamond, you would be paying $7,354.90 after the 2% Pricescope adjustment on the wire price. Like someone on here advised me - If you're looking to stretch your dollars, BGD is a good option. Don't rush and decide now, sit down and talk about it together, look through the diamonds and come to a consensus.

 

[KA]

Here's the weird thing. Yesterday, I was looking at the Brian Gavin diamonds that are mentioned on this post, and they were 7505 for the two and 7737 for the third one (wire price) respectively. Today, I look at them again, and they all seem to have increased in price by over 250 dollars. Are the diamond prices increasing that quickly? I asked about them from BG yesterday expressing interest. Do you think they might sell them at the original price if I decide to buy them today or tomorrow. This much increase is rather scary. Makes me not want to buy diamonds at all, just go with getting engaged and not bothering with the diamond.

 

[nfowife]

If you ask them, and are going to buy today, they might give you the previous price. They've honored that before for PSers.

 

[Verdy]

Diamond prices are increasing over this summer and I'm assuming part of fall - or at least that's what WF told us when we were looking. If you want to lock in a price on the diamond, WF offers a financing plan where you give 20% of the diamond price, and then you have 3 months to pay it off in full. The price will not increase on your diamond with this plan, even if prices do go up again. If not, trying looking at smaller diamonds, maybe something in the .75-.80ish area - remember, size isn't always everything in an engagement ring. All engagements are possible, so don't be discouraged!

ETA: Unfortunately BGD does not offer a payment plan, but try what nfowife said, that might work.

 

[centralsquare]

I wouldn't do SI2 for an e-ring. Perhaps for earrings when the distance and angles are different. I like the BGDs that Verdy suggested. I noticed that the first one you posted from WF is reserved...not sure if that was you?

Crazy about prices going up that quickly!

 

[KA]

Oh, we don't need financing, and are planning to buy some time this week. It is just that my fiance is out of town and will be back tomorrow, and we want to decide then. It is just that the ones at BGD were slightly over budget anyway, but I really liked them. Now they are really over budget, so it just upset me that the diamonds increased in price overnight, though I suppose that's life.

I am supposed to get idealscope images for a few diamonds back today or tomorrow from JA and others, so I hope that one of those will work out instead. I suppose that there is no harm in asking the BGD people if they will sell for the old price, but I feel bad doing that. I mean, I have no claim on the diamonds, and if they are worth more, I should expect to pay more. I am really bad at this thing called negotiation

Anyway, the whiteflash diamond I liked is also sold now, so I am pinning most of my hopes on the ones I have on reserve at JA. Hopefully, the images and the eye clean tests will come back good, and I can pick one of those.

 

[KA]

Here is one of my other options.



The stats for this one are: Round, 0.9 ct, GIA excellent, G, VS2,

Depth: 62.2%
Table: 56.0%
Polish: Very Good
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.15*6.19*3.84
Crown Angle: 35.0°
Crown Height: 15.5%
Pavilion Angle: 40.8°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
This one is about 6200 dollars.

The idealscope looks good to me, what do people who actually know about it think?

What do you guys think, comparing it to the BGD diamond
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=AGS-1040376130004

Even if I get the BGD diamond at yesterday's price, it was about 7300 with the PS discount. They told me that they would consider giving me some consideration since I asked for the diamond yesterday, and said that I would decide on Thursday, but I don't know how much discount. Is the second one likely to be significantly brighter? It is also a little bit bigger, but I understand that 0.9 vs 1 is not a huge difference. Should we consider paying 1200 dollars extra for it? My fiance would be happy to get whatever I want, but I still feel guilty taking advantage of that.

Can someone interpret the two idealscopes for me please, and convince me that I need the H&A

 

[stone-cold11]

The JA's idealscope image looks good.

Idealscope is still another rejection tool, not a selection tool, so it won't tell you which of the 2 will be better, so long as they pass the rejection bar.

 

[KA]

Right, but since I don't have the diamonds in hand, this is all I can really use. Just based on the information I do have, it seems unreasonable to spend 1200 dollars on the BGD diamond. Other than some small amount asymmetry and some extra white at 9 o'clock position, I really can't see much wrong with with the cheaper diamond. I imagine that there is some leakage, but it is probably still really bright, right?

Unless there is something aggregiously wrong with it, I probably won't send back whatever we buy, since we need to get on with getting a ring, which will take 4 more weeks after the diamond. I think my fiance might break up with me if I don't decide on a diamond soon, since he is adamant about having a ring before we announce the engagement, and obviously, we want to announce as soon as possible.

 

[stone-cold11]

Jumping over the 1 carat mark implies a jump in $/carat, which is where the major $ increase comes from. Worth it or not depends on you. For some it is, not my say. :p

Should not have noticeable leakage with stereo vision.

 

[KA]

Oh, I don't care about a carat benchmark, and have managed to convince my fiance that it isn't worth it to worry about that. I have other idealscope images of some others I am considering, but I can't seem to upload them right now, for some reason. Will try that later, and try to get your opinions about those as well. Hopefully, I can just decide today and buy tomorrow

 

[KA]

I can't upload the idealscope image yet, but here are the dimensions of the other one I'm considering:

0.92 carats, F/VS2, GIA excellent cut

Depth: 62.5%
Table: 56.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Medium to slightly thick
Culet: None
Fluorescence: Faint
Measurements: 6.15*6.18*3.86
Crown Angle: 35.5°
Crown Height: 16.0%
Pavilion Angle: 40.6°
Pavilion Depth: 43.0%
Star length: 50%
Lower Half: 80%
Girdle: Medium to Slightly Thick, Faceted
Culet: None

As far as I can tell, the difference between this one and the previous one is slightly better color and polish excellent instead of very good. How much does polish matter in the appearance of the diamond.

 

[stone-cold11]

Not much. Most cannot tell the difference without training.

 

[KA]

Re: Help choosing a diamond [Urgent]

Here is the F/VS2 stone, the stats are above. They said that the slight leakage at the left is because of tilting of the stone.

What do you think? Should I get this one or the G/VS2? This one is about 600 dollars more expensive, but better color. Is the idealscope image better? The differences I see are, the G one has this weird big black blob at 8 o'clock. I think that's because of an inclusion. But the F one doesn't have as many black dots in near the center near the arrows, and I understand that that affects scintillation (makes it worse). Which one would you guys recommend?

It is between these two for me, and I have them on hold for another hour, hence the urgency.

 

[stone-cold11]

Idealscope image looks good too.

Depends on you. Probably no difference between the 2 in light performance if you are looking at them with both eyes, stereo vision. maybe you can detect some slight difference with one eye, simulated like the idealscope.

Depends on if you want to spend the extra 600 for a slight increase in color and light performance.

 

[KA]

We ended up getting the F/VS2 diamond. Hopefully, it will arrive next week and be awesome Thank you everyone with all the help in picking the stone. I am so very grateful. This is literally the most expensive single thing either of us has ever bought, except for my fiance's car (I don't even own a car). And we knew nothing about diamonds. (In fact, after having read this stuff, I am pretty sure that we got ripped off on the diamond studs and pendant my fiance bought me on our anniversary from Bailey Banks and Biddle.) So all this help and knowledge is really useful.

I am totally addicted to this forum for ever now, which isn't very good for productivity. And I might want diamonds often now, which my fiance might come to regret I never thought I cared about jewelry so much, but some of you gals have awesome stuff. Thanks again for all the help.

 

[stone-cold11]

Good luck.