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Heirloom quality settings.

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Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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My other thread has got me thinking...

I agree with Kenny that for the persnickity PSers the energy should go into choosing the correct designer then trusting them....

But how do you KNOW that the quality you are looking at is heirloom quality?

Also... is STATING to the designer or jeweler that you are looking for heirloom quality a no-no? I''ve already gotten the hint that ''flawless'' is a no-no... and that ''perfect'' is also not a good idea.

How do you speak with a jeweler and make sure he or she does heirloom quality work... I mean, won''t they all just say that they do... even if they don''t?

I never doubted that MWM was heirloom quality.

I don''t know about Leon''s pave pieces (although I do believe the non-pave is)...

How do you know?
 

ILikeBond

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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312
Date: 2/8/2007 7:39:29 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)

Sorry to hear the prob''s Gypsy - I can see where he is vcoming from as an employer of 6 bench jewellers.


We have extremely fussy clients from time to time, and on rare occasions i have stepped in and asked if the client wants ''design award'' finish which is judged by our peers to be flawless and should hold up to 5x magnification. This can cost 2 times more depending on the piece. I have only seen 1 MM piece and it was not that quality - but it was a top commercial finish.


The trouble is when you are in that position t is almost a challenge to the client to find the flaw - so i usually also step in over the staff who are working with the cleint and demand design changes that avoid hard to get to crevices etc.


BTW someone referred to Mark as a Pricescope jeweller - I do not believe MM has ever advertised here on Pricescope - but he obviously benefits financially and also from the wonderful designs that come his way from the resourceful Pscope family.
---------------------------------------------------------

Gypsy, I pasted this from your other thread. I found this really interesting. I knew this sort of "show quality" manufacturing and pricing existed in other walks of life ("show quality" dog versus "pet quality" dog; show quality cars; etc.), but I didn''t know there existed a sort of "design award" level jewelry-making. My guess is this 2-tier level of service is pretty rare in this market, but maybe you can find someone that, like Gary suggests, expressly offers exceptional attention and crafting, even at double the cost.

Also, I just want to reiterate my recommendation of Brian Knox & co., which I understand does nice custom work (and has a lot of info about it on their website).
 

crown1

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Nov 22, 2006
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1,682
your eyes. i think you have to see it. i also don''t think that all designers think that they are heirloom quality any more than all architects think they are the elite in their field. i like to think that most do the best they can but we are all not equally talented. average joe or josephine has to make a living also. some make up for less talent by working harder and bring themselves to a higher plain but not everyone. jmho.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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40,198
Thanks Bond! I don''t need that level of finish, though... top commerical is fine with me... and it''s not really the FINISH that matters to me... it''s more the actual process of metal work that I''m focused on. I don''t know if that makes sense.
 

ILikeBond

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
312
Date: 2/9/2007 3:22:04 PM
Author: Gypsy
Thanks Bond! I don''t need that level of finish, though... top commerical is fine with me... and it''s not really the FINISH that matters to me... it''s more the actual process of metal work that I''m focused on. I don''t know if that makes sense.
Fair enough. I should also say wrt Knox, from what I understand they have a very good / genius goldworker, but not sure its at that level for platinum (even though I had them do my setting in plat).

fwiw, I assumed by ''design award finish,'' Gary was referring to everything, not just whether its polished really nice. To draw the same analogy - you could paint a beater car up real nice, etc., but if you open the hood and its rusted out, and look in the window and the seats inside have tears and its dirty, its not going to win any awards at any shows, right?

Well, I wish you luck!
 

Dee*Jay

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Mar 26, 2006
Messages
13,359
Gypsy, I think this is an interesting question.

I have heard Michael Beaudry pieces referred to as "heirloom quality" by several jewelers, but I have never been 100% clear on what exactly that means.

dictionary.com provides the definition that an heirloom is a "family possession passed down from generation to generation." Does that mean that he piece will be so well crafted that it will stand up to the wear of the original owner and then still be in good enough shape to pass on, or something else? That doesn''t seem like an exactly correct definition of "heirloom quality" to me in this context, but I can''t think of a more correct one at the moment.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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40,198
Date: 2/9/2007 3:24:58 PM
Author: ILikeBond

Date: 2/9/2007 3:22:04 PM
Author: Gypsy
Thanks Bond! I don''t need that level of finish, though... top commerical is fine with me... and it''s not really the FINISH that matters to me... it''s more the actual process of metal work that I''m focused on. I don''t know if that makes sense.
Fair enough. I should also say wrt Knox, from what I understand they have a very good / genius goldworker, but not sure its at that level for platinum (even though I had them do my setting in plat).

fwiw, I assumed by ''design award finish,'' Gary was referring to everything, not just whether its polished really nice. To draw the same analogy - you could paint a beater car up real nice, etc., but if you open the hood and its rusted out, and look in the window and the seats inside have tears and its dirty, its not going to win any awards at any shows, right?

Well, I wish you luck!
I will drop know a note
.

And you might be right about ''design award finish'' meaning the whole thing... I didn''t see it that way at the time, but you definitely have a point.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
Date: 2/9/2007 3:25:49 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
Gypsy, I think this is an interesting question.

I have heard Michael Beaudry pieces referred to as ''heirloom quality'' by several jewelers, but I have never been 100% clear on what exactly that means.

dictionary.com provides the definition that an heirloom is a ''family possession passed down from generation to generation.'' Does that mean that he piece will be so well crafted that it will stand up to the wear of the original owner and then still be in good enough shape to pass on, or something else? That doesn''t seem like an exactly correct definition of ''heirloom quality'' to me in this context, but I can''t think of a more correct one at the moment.
To me all heirloom quality means is that it is a very fine quality item worth handing down. I''d certainly say that Beaudry pieces would fit that description!
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,398
Hi Gypsy. I''m not sure what exactly was in your Powerpoint presentation to MM, but it sounds like you expect impeccable quality. That sounds like the "design award" quality that Garry referred to. "Heirloom quality" sounds like a marketing description for something well-done and timeless. It doesn''t say much about particulars though, does it?

What I would expect for top quality stuff would be perfect symmetry and total precision, all surfaces polished, no divots or imperfections in the finish, nothing crooked or misaligned. From what I understand polishing is extremely time consuming and can really make a big difference in the quality of a piece, all else being equal. If the underside of the pave is polished or the inside of the gallery, it shows a lot of effort went into the piece.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Okay.. I''m starting to get a little irked here.

You know all the magified pics people post on here and then every one disects to death? Yeah... if you''ll notice I normally don''t say anything in those posts. You know why? I usually can''t SPOT the problem. Unless its a tilted head... then its fairly obvious.

I have a a cast, probably Adwar setting on my finger now... when Mara and I went to JE and they polished it... I FINALLY noticed that it had been all scratched up over the years, only because the difference was so remarkable. AND my setting has a 4 mm ripple in it that admittedly bugs the heck out of me? But you know why? I can see it, with my naked eye from 2 feet away... that''s how big it is.

I''m not super picky about that stuff actually.

What I am picky about is that the person who does my setting have a style that is compatible with mine, solid proven quality... that will last so that I can pass this ring on, and that they have enough artistic vision so that I do NOT have to be an armchair designer.

I am picky about the DESIGN.... and honestly I left MUCH of that to Mark... I told him I want a halo with very small bead set pave, a plain 2 mm band, double claw prongs to hold my diamond and interwoven wires connecting the head to the shank. THAT''S IT.

Is that your idea of impossible to please???

I don''t want to control every detail of the process. I prefer not to. I was very happy with Mark. Had ZERO issues with him. And I made a few unfortunate word choices when I was trying to avoid having to deal with poor workmanship like some of the other''s on here have had to deal with.

Was it necessary to state that with Mark? No. But as I explained... I didn''t realize how bad my word choice was.

It was a DICTION error folks. My JOB is writing things in such a way as to PROTECT people from harm. I was just protecting myself. Please stop assuming that I''m this Nit picky freak. I REALLY do not appreciate it.
 

Officers girl

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2007
Messages
218
Gypsy,

As my previous post stated I really think the problem lies with the way you were treated by MM. I know I may get flamed for this entire post but I really think his attitude was way to primadonna! Yes he has everyright to refuse service to anyone but the way he did it. That just seemed to scream ugh just left a bad taste in my mouth about him. I really hope you find a jeweler you connect with. They guys at Knox are great I sent them my design initailly and they were very receptive. I just didnt want you to feel that no one understood where you were coming from. I hope you find a designer who understands the needs you have, without all the atitude.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 2/9/2007 2:59:34 PM
Author:Gypsy
My other thread has got me thinking...
You know - to me heirloom quality doesn''t mean it is perfect - ESPECIALLY in terms of finish.... finish is nice but it is temporary.... to me heirloom quality means that everything is straight, well set, and is ready to last to give to your grand kids.

I don''t think that many of leon''s pieces are heirloom quality even though they are *gorgeous* and beautiful. I just don''t see 3 sided pave as having the structural integrity to constitute "heirloom" (which implies that it will last over generations) quality.

To me heirloom quality is as much about being able to stand up over the years as it is to be a beautiful work of art WORTHY of lasting over the years.
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
That you OG!
I don''t think you are going to get flamed... everyone is entitled to express their opinion on here.

It wasn''t that I felt alone... You''ve all been very supportive. The repeated implication that I needed the setting to be perfect at 5 Magnification that did it.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
11,071
Date: 2/9/2007 2:59:34 PM
Author:Gypsy

Also... is STATING to the designer or jeweler that you are looking for heirloom quality a no-no? I've already gotten the hint that 'flawless' is a no-no... and that 'perfect' is also not a good idea.

How do you speak with a jeweler and make sure he or she does heirloom quality work... I mean, won't they all just say that they do... even if they don't?
after the presentation with ocean, she wink and I were on the phone still talking and wink said something about heirlooms and then ocean did and I said, "you know I'm glad you mention that because that's EXACTLY what I'm going for. I'm not looking to trade this ring in, upgrade it, change it or anything else - the way this ring is made is the way it will be for the rest of my life and the way it will be when it goes to my daughter." and I could just feel the electricty on the phone intensify - because as happy as they are to make "heirloom quality" goods - I think it is encouraging to a jeweler to know that her work is going to be appreciated for a lifetime and not just traded in on fashion's whim. That to me is what an heirloom is all about.


Quality over fashion..... Art over fad....


ETA - I just want to say that while I really like Ocean and I trust Wink to hold her to a certain standard without me even asking... I am not endorsing her per se. I haven't gone far enough with her to suggest using her, but I'm very hopeful. That's all - wanted to clarify LOL
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 2/9/2007 3:25:49 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
Gypsy, I think this is an interesting question.

I have heard Michael Beaudry pieces referred to as ''heirloom quality'' by several jewelers, but I have never been 100% clear on what exactly that means.

dictionary.com provides the definition that an heirloom is a ''family possession passed down from generation to generation.'' Does that mean that he piece will be so well crafted that it will stand up to the wear of the original owner and then still be in good enough shape to pass on, or something else? That doesn''t seem like an exactly correct definition of ''heirloom quality'' to me in this context, but I can''t think of a more correct one at the moment.
actually dee jay that is exactly what I think of heirloom quality.... I do think many of MM''s pieces are of that quality and I think many of leon mege''s pieces are not of that quality - and yet I find some of LM''s pieces that aren''t more attractive than MM''s pieces that are. I think there needs to be a certain sturdiness as well as an above average artform.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 2/9/2007 3:13:30 PM
Author: ILikeBond

Date: 2/8/2007 7:39:29 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)


Sorry to hear the prob''s Gypsy - I can see where he is vcoming from as an employer of 6 bench jewellers.



We have extremely fussy clients from time to time, and on rare occasions i have stepped in and asked if the client wants ''design award'' finish which is judged by our peers to be flawless and should hold up to 5x magnification. This can cost 2 times more depending on the piece. I have only seen 1 MM piece and it was not that quality - but it was a top commercial finish.



The trouble is when you are in that position t is almost a challenge to the client to find the flaw - so i usually also step in over the staff who are working with the cleint and demand design changes that avoid hard to get to crevices etc.



BTW someone referred to Mark as a Pricescope jeweller - I do not believe MM has ever advertised here on Pricescope - but he obviously benefits financially and also from the wonderful designs that come his way from the resourceful Pscope family.
---------------------------------------------------------

Gypsy, I pasted this from your other thread. I found this really interesting. I knew this sort of ''show quality'' manufacturing and pricing existed in other walks of life (''show quality'' dog versus ''pet quality'' dog; show quality cars; etc.), but I didn''t know there existed a sort of ''design award'' level jewelry-making. My guess is this 2-tier level of service is pretty rare in this market, but maybe you can find someone that, like Gary suggests, expressly offers exceptional attention and crafting, even at double the cost.

Also, I just want to reiterate my recommendation of Brian Knox & co., which I understand does nice custom work (and has a lot of info about it on their website).
I don''t think its just two tiers.... we''re not even mentioning the bottom tiers lol
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 2/9/2007 7:00:41 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006

Date: 2/9/2007 3:25:49 PM
Author: Dee*Jay
Gypsy, I think this is an interesting question.

I have heard Michael Beaudry pieces referred to as ''heirloom quality'' by several jewelers, but I have never been 100% clear on what exactly that means.

dictionary.com provides the definition that an heirloom is a ''family possession passed down from generation to generation.'' Does that mean that he piece will be so well crafted that it will stand up to the wear of the original owner and then still be in good enough shape to pass on, or something else? That doesn''t seem like an exactly correct definition of ''heirloom quality'' to me in this context, but I can''t think of a more correct one at the moment.
To me all heirloom quality means is that it is a very fine quality item worth handing down. I''d certainly say that Beaudry pieces would fit that description!
not just worth handing down, but has survived to do so!!
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,398
Date: 2/9/2007 8:14:43 PM
Author: Gypsy
Okay.. I''m starting to get a little irked here.
Please stop assuming that I''m this Nit picky freak. I REALLY do not appreciate it.
Hi Gypsy.

This post came right after my comments, and so I''m a bit concerned that you were responding to me. Quite to the contrary, I think the idea of sending specific instructions is wonderful.

I hope I didn''t offend you - sometimes words can be misconstrued. If this happened, I''m sorry. A Powerpoint presentation is really going the extra mile (great, IMHO!), so between this and your other comments, I assumed you want something really well-made. I know I certainly would if I were shelling out big bucks for a custom setting.

I hope you find someone with whom you can communicate smoothly and well. Looking forward to pictures!
 
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