Hearts and Arrow - the noob thread

[smithy617]

I got a little confuse about H&A diamonds. I see most H&A diamonds are sold from GOG & WF, and just maybe a few from other online vendors. Does highend stores have H&A diamonds (Tiffanys, Cartier...etc)?
What about Hearts on Fire, do they only sell H&A and name themselves HoF???


I see another thread discussing about True Hearts, but its way to technical for a noob like me.
so if any newbies that have other questions about H&A, please share it here

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/28/2008 11:03:39 PM
Author:smithy617
I got a little confuse about H&A diamonds. I see most H&A diamonds are sold from GOG & WF, and just maybe a few from other online vendors. Does highend stores have H&A diamonds (Tiffanys, Cartier...etc)?

What about Hearts on Fire, do they only sell H&A and name themselves HoF???



I see another thread discussing about True Hearts, but its way to technical for a noob like me.

so if any newbies that have other questions about H&A, please share it here

Many of the vendors here sell H&A diamonds, they are quite popular here.

Hearts on Fire is a branded H&A that charges a hefty premium for the name. I can not answer for the high end stores, but I would be surprised if many of them did not have H&A available if you ask. There is also an excellent tutorial by Brian the cutter on H&A.

Wink

 

[smithy617]

so each vendor/store hand-picks the diamonds and determine if its H&A?
I mean...H&A are not graded on the reports, so all these H&A are basically viewed by the sellers or by the labs?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Date: 7/29/2008 12:59:57 AM
Author: smithy617
so each vendor/store hand-picks the diamonds and determine if its H&A?
I mean...H&A are not graded on the reports, so all these H&A are basically viewed by the sellers or by the labs?

There are only a few labs that grade H&A''s and most of that is outside USA.
The standards vary and the best vendors are those that show images of stones online, or show you the stone unset instore.
You can gather from the technical threads there is little agreement on the benfits and standards. it is a work in progress for some and guiding principal for others

 

[Regular Guy]

Smithy,

Thanks for writing.

I try to read the technical threads, and don't begrudge experts for not supplying the punchline...but I want it nonetheless.

A lot of threads on fire recently...and all are just rolling by.

I DO read in the technical thread the suggestion that given the current and respected system of H&A, some options might be handicapped...or their potential is handicapped...or at least...some diamonds are not being cut whose symmetry could otherwise be exploited were it not for the need to also use H&A which itself necessitates they not be cut, because if cut to H&A standards, their performance would be constrained.

I could use some help connecting the dots. First questions:

the suggestion in the re-newed technical thread is that at 85 ish LGFs, performance is handicapped, vs 80ish where it may be enhanced. But, first...taking only three sets of actuals...WF ACA's, Pauls Infinities, and one at random from GOG...given work constraints...I can't even find readily data on LGF from any BUT the ACAs....and they are in the upper 70s as a pattern. And so, in terms of actuals...trying to connect the dots...I am not immediately seeing the concern played out.

Second...statements...

Tooling through an old thread, I'm reminded here that: "Branded diamonds usually have more consistent precision of the cut and H&A pattern." Other older threads say it better. But...and consistent with a contemporary thread...where although the poster is looking for a princess...the title works nonetheless.. he is "a first timer in search of the perfect diamond," and the purported advantage..of not necessarily purchasing an H&A option...but a branded one...like an Infinity, SuperbCert, or ACA, is that you can relax a bit because you can trust the formula has been worked out. And...this is designed to go a bit beyond the specific benefit of H&A, and more toward a quality standard the buyer can feel has been met, #1, and #2...there could be a perceived consensus among experts here that the particular option wouldn't readily take a hit from another expert on this board. You'd pay a premium for this branding...but that's what you'd want as a result, and hope to get.

Back to questions...

Are we thinking this branding in actuals is still providing the sought after payoff?

I assume valid enough questions are already being asked about H&A to suggest great options may exist outside of this constraint. But...are there substantive questions being raised about the goodness of the current known set of crops?

Are there other farms to pick crops in if so, and if not...can we give a better summary to the known universe.

I would think that, given what IS known, we can say that the premium paid for these known brands can help the buyer be relatively assured that they have pretty well optimized. Which is not to say a buyer couldn't do as well with another look. Any questions here?

And by the way...although Garry points to a making them do it!

 

[John P]

Date: 7/28/2008 11:03:39 PM
Author:smithy617
I got a little confuse about H&A diamonds. I see most H&A diamonds are sold from GOG; WF, and just maybe a few from other online vendors. Does highend stores have H&A diamonds (Tiffanys, Cartier...etc)?
What about Hearts on Fire, do they only sell H&A and name themselves HoF???


I see another thread discussing about True Hearts, but its way to technical for a noob like me.
so if any newbies that have other questions about H&A, please share it here

The #1 thing to most diamond manufacturers is retaining as much weight as possible from the rough diamond crystal. This means the majority of the world's rough diamonds are "knocked into shape" with as little weight loss as possible.

Logically, with weight recovery as the overwhelming priority, the vast majority of the world's diamonds do not get cut with optimal proportions (to give top light performance) and/or with enough precision to show crisp patterns in a reflective viewer (whether traditional "H&A" or another nice symmetrical pattern). Of the two, top light performance is more important...a diamond can be cut to show crisp patterns but might not have top performance (rare these days but it happens).

The percentage of diamonds that are crafted with light performance and/or crisp patterns as a priority is extremely small. Those diamonds are not found casually in commercial outlets. Manufacturers of top "fine-make" diamonds may brand their production and offer it through selected dealers (HOF and our brand fall into this category) release them through a single outlet (like WF/ACA) or provide these top stones to chosen suppliers/sellers with a focus on cut quality (like GOG and others).

Tiffany & Cartier have fabulous diamonds with top light performance but do not focus on H&A or other patterns. This is logical. The tools and equipment required to produce diamonds at such levels of cut precision have only been around for a couple of decades. T&Co, Cartier and such storied establishments have sold their diamonds as "the best" for generations. It would make little sense for them to pursue a line of H&A stones, since some clients might infer (for right or wrong) that all of the stones they sold before are now somehow secondary.

The technical H&A threads aside, the number one priority for any diamond buyer (after size) is usually beauty. For beauty you should seek cut quality and light performance as your priorities. Then, if you like a nice crisp pattern, whether simply for the aesthetics or for the optical benefits, I suggest you look into optical symmetry/cut precision - in any shape.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[Regular Guy]

JP,

Both you and Paul do a really fine job putting perspective on H&A...as to the sort of value you can look to from it. That''s very nice.

So, OK. Now, this thread IS about H&A. The focus is here. Already. Consider cranking it up a notch.

Given you could look for H&A, what additional peace of mind should we expect that would buy us, over...say...an investment in something like somebody''s Expert Selection, etc.

 

[smithy617]

What about a Sarin report, if my aca diamond came with a sarin report graded "Ideal 0"....is it save to say that I have a true H&A diamond?

The Sarin reports (lets say from WF - see attached), is this the same technology as the Sarin Dia-mension from Japan?

 

[WinkHPD]

Date: 7/29/2008 6:29:16 PM
Author: smithy617
What about a Sarin report, if my aca diamond came with a sarin report graded 'Ideal 0'....is it save to say that I have a true H&A diamond?

The Sarin reports (lets say from WF - see attached), is this the same technology as the Sarin Dia-mension from Japan?

NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The sarin report can give a predictive cutting grade that does not take into consideration the optical symmetry necessary to create a H&A picture.

Many AGS 0 cut grades and GIA excellent stones do NOT show a H&A pattern.

The ONLY way to know if you have a good H&A pattern is to look at the H&A pattern photos or look at the stone itself in a viewer designed to show the H&A patterns.

Wink

 

[smithy617]

thanks for the info.