Lazard diamonds, hearts & arrows, eightstars?

[zeropts]

Hi,My fiancee-to-be and I just started to look for engagement rings for me. We have run into the following:1. Lazard diamonds (was told that Tiffany uses these, under their own lable)2. Hearts on Fire (Hearts and Arrows)3. On this board, learned about eightstarsWe are novices and would love some guidance on what to look for. We're not even sure we know how to start. We live in NJ. I would love to have something that really sparkles and is of excellent quality.Much thanks in advance for your advice.Best,
C

 

[lawmax]

That looks quite high for just a hearts and arrows diamond to me. If that is what you want to buy, you can do better easily.

 

[pricescope]

Yeah, it is a bit high comparing to the Internet where you can get unbranded H&A 0.92 G VVS2 for about $3k less.I didn't find exactly the same A Cut Above or Superb Cert diamonds but their prices for 1.04 - 1.05 G VVS2 are less than $8500. I understand that diamond prices in B&M stores are higher than in the Internet but this looks too much.

 

[zeropts]

Hi everyone,Well, I visited a local jeweler today and was quoted over $8500 for a Heart on Fire, 0.92 caret, G, VVS2, Table=55.8 (I can't remember the other information)I've been doing a bit of a search online recently and think that this is rather high for a Hearts and Arrow. Would that be correct?Best,
Zeropts

 

[lawmax]

Hi zeropts,
I'm going to cut and paste here some previous posts dealing with the difference between EightStar diamonds and Hearts and Arrows diamonds.My understanding is that Lazare cut nice diamonds but that they are not cut as precisely as other diamonds on the market and their prices are high.Here are some cut and pastes:
_____________________________________________Author Topic: Are "Hearts & Arrows" phoney "Hearts on Fire"?
investigator
rough rock
Posts: 2
From:St. Louis, MO USA
Registered: Feb 2001
posted 02-16-2001 11:52 PM
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I've been diamond shopping for quite some time and have found the "perfectly cut diamond", known to me as an exclusive "Hearts on Fire" diamond. It is overwhelmingly IDENTICAL to the "Hearts & Arrows" diamond. Both claim to be the so-called perfectly cut diamond. Which is the original and which is the imposter? I would recommend exercising some caution if considering purchasing "Hearts & Arrows" based on the outstanding reputation of "Hearts on Fire". Correct me if I'm mistaken!
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---------------------------------------------lawmax
cut rock
Posts: 272
From:
Registered: Jan 1900
posted 02-17-2001 08:19 AM
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Actually,
The first diamond which all of the H&A companies have tried to copy is the EightStar which was cut to produce the correct firescope image. The owner of the firescope, Takanori Tamura of Tokyo, searched for a diamond that would meet the demands of the firescope and found very few tiny stones that had been cut that would produce the correct image.He had his cutter learn how to produce diamonds that would be EightStars. The imitators came in time.Actually, EightStar doesn't really consider itself a H&A diamond. Their criteria are stricter than that of most companies who simply look for a pattern. Each and every EightStar must exhibit the perfect image in the firescope.If you are interested, you can send an email to EightStar through their website www.eightstar.com and you can ask about their diamonds. Unlike most cutters, the president or vice president of the company will likely write you and answer your questions. They may even send you a copy of the EightStar story (you can read a shortened version on their site). It's an interesting read.

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StevL
cut rock
Posts: 100
From:South Carolina, USA
Registered: Jan 1900
posted 02-17-2001 06:10 PM
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Wow! Good post Lawmax, your not an average consumer!
Yes Eighstar was the first, and is still considered the best in optical light return.There are many branded H&A diamonds, and they all have their sales tools, and marketing tools. The truth is that no one H&A brand produces anything that any other brand doesn't produce. One word of caution, they all produce best and better, so even within one brand there can be differences in the light return which can be viewed through a Firescope, and a Brilliance Scope. Please note that the Briliance Scope has a +/- 5% range, so make sure this test is run a couple of times would be my suggestion.The only diamond that gets consistant Firescope results *every time* is the Eightstar (which is not a H&A diamond). Yes it does have both of the images (H&A), but Eightstar is only concerned with the arrows and doesn't market the hearts. You should compare both together (H&As and Eightstars side by side) to make *your* best decision.Good luck, and happy hunting.---------------------------------------------leonid
Moderator
Posts: 548
From:Toronto, Ontario
Registered: Jul 2000
posted 02-17-2001 06:43 PM
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I'm confused. I thought EightStar Diamonds is an American company. How then Japanise tools and name came to the US?
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lawmax
cut rock
Posts: 272
From:
Registered: Jan 1900
posted 02-17-2001 07:35 PM
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In a nutshell, EightStar was first a Japanese company. The Japanese economy was booming and so was the demand for EightStar diamonds. Richard von Sternberg was asked to help the company find cutters here who could be trained in Japan to cut EightStars back in America to help increase supply for the Japanese market.
After some time, it was decided that EightStars should be sold in America. Richard played a small part in helping with marketing, but after some time the owner of the company decided that he didn't want to manage a diamond factory day in and day out. He was a business man.After managing the business for awhile, Richard bought the American company. I can send you a copy of the EightStar Diamond Story if you like-I have two of them. Go to www.eightstar.com and read much of the story.--------------------------------------------

drewg350
rough rock
Posts: 10
From:wall, nj
Registered: Jan 2001
posted 02-18-2001 12:54 AM
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I'm just curious, how much more on average does an Eighstar cost over a Branded H&A 000? Is it around 30%, 40%?
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lawmax
cut rock
Posts: 272
From:
Registered: Jan 1900
posted 02-18-2001 07:30 AM
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Edit-EightStar prices have been lowered and are now close to those of other brands in most sizes.That's a hard question to answer. It could be that much or it could be less. The dealers don't all charge the same markup, although their initial cost on the diamonds is more than for other stones. I believe some people have found higher prices for Hearts on Fire. Other brands are much less expensive, some are in the middle.Also, it depends I think, on what C's you are considering.EightStars are cut differently than other diamonds, and buyers do pay for the craftsmanship. They do not just put a rough diamond on a Sarin machine and let the machine tell them the best way to cut the diamond to save weight. The diamonds are not machine cut. The firescope will show errors that a hearts and arrows viewer will not.Many consumers can see a difference between EightStars and well-cut hearts and arrows diamonds but some can't. Actually, the difference becomes more noticable the more time you spend looking at them. _____________________________________________I hope this helps you zeropts.

 

[zeropts]

Thanks for the great advise I've received so far.On July 7th, my fiancee and I will be traveling to two locations to view superideals.1.) Good Old Gold: Jonathon, who is highly recommended by many2.) Arthur Groom & Co. in NJ (the authorized dealer for Eightstars in the NJ, PA, NY area...)If anyone has any experiences with Arthur Groom & Co., I'd appreciate any feedback. My initial sense is that they are a very fancy B & M. We have not had very good experiences with B & M so far because we are both so "bacy-faced" and the sales people don't take us very seriously because of that.Best,
Chia-Lin

 

[pricescope]

Zeropts,
In our days there are quite a few cutters that cut super-ideal, Hearts and Arrows diamonds. I believe you could get the best value for them in the Internet. Lazare
There are branded as well as non branded H&A diamonds from different sources:
www.whiteflash.com - A Cut Above H&A diamonds
www.usacerteddiamonds.com - Superb Cert and nonbranded H&A diamonds
www.demsjewelers.com - Eight Star and H&A diamonds
www.goodoldgold.com - Superb Cert and nonbranded H&A diamonds
www.niceice.com - Nonbranded H&A and AGS0 diamonds.
Branded diamonds usually have more consistent precision of the cut and H&A pattern. See requirements to H&A cut: grading the hearts
EightStar Diamonds ( www.eightstar.com ) differentiate themselves by cutting using Firescope to achieve perfect eight-star pattern and no light leakage visible in Firescope. EightStar fans like Lawmax are saying that EightStar has different look comparing to any other ideal-cut diamond.
Take a look at alternative opinion about H&A and ideal cut diamonds
The only way to decide is to see different stones and compare prices.

 

[synapse]

>Hi everyone,Well, I visited a local jeweler today and was quoted over $8500 for a Heart on Fire, 0.92 caret, G, VVS2, Table=55.8 (I can't remember the other information)I've been doing a bit of a search online recently and think that this is rather high for a Hearts and Arrow. Would that be correct?
Best,
Zeropts

You need to look at an 8*, it will cost less and have greater precision and for what it's worth, has more exclusivity.

Don't flame me, but I laughed to myself when the Hearts on Fire salesperson said to me "There's only 70 people in the world that can cut a HOF." 8* only has 7.

I did see a difference. The HoF is a beautiful diamond, but to pay more and not get that extra mile is not worth it to me, carat for carat, spec for spec.