Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope image?

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Hi All,
I've been going round and round (pun intended) trying to find the right diamond and have done my head in on research :wall:
I'm now not sure what to do

I'm trying to find a 2 carat (2 minimum) round diamond, SI1 eye clean, F colour, XXX GIA. It will be set in a 6 prong claw so I'm trying to avoid any significant inclusions in the middle of the table

I'm looking at finding something between 1 and 2.6 on HCA (maybe up to 3) but just want something that dazzles

My budget is around 22k max (ideallly more towards 20 but will stretch for right one)

I've looked on pricescope and after looking at many many diamonds i'm leaning towards jamesallen as they have detailed images (although you pay a bit more)

I found a diamond which I thought was excellent on jamesallen, ticked all the boxes, looked eyeclean. Found the same one on Adiamor for slightly cheaper and was going to purchase and decided to ask for a Idealscope image (first idealscope image I've seen) and from what I can tell in interpreting (white area is bad right? please correct me if i'm wrong), the idealscope is very very bad with lots of light leakage.

http://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/F-SI1-Affinity-Cut-Round-Diamond/D33774556

203_f_si1.png

Now after this i'm unsure what my options are. I'm also hesitant to purchase on somewhere like bluenile or b2c where no idealscope images are available after this initial experience

Anyone provide some guidance?

A local jeweller recommended me to go for the full ring with them and sent me some GIA certificates that I found on bluenile and b2c, but I don't have much confidence as they told me to ignore technicalities behind idealscope/HCA and just go for one which is eyeclean and GIA

edit: according to this guide - this idealscope image is actually very good? Input?
http://jeweladmin.com/images/gallery/51/userfiles/images/education/precision5.jpg
 

realazy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
30
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

That looks to be a hearts and arrows scope image and not an idealscope image.
 

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

realazy|1479340675|4099486 said:
That looks to be a hearts and arrows scope image and not an idealscope image.
oh they are two different things? Well i'll be damned....
 

realazy

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 19, 2016
Messages
30
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

Hearts and arrows scope images are used to judge optical symmetry, which this stone is mediorce on as two of the hearts are quite messed up. It does not show light leakage like an idealscope.
 

farrahlyn

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,170
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

Off track but why an F? A G colored stone is still very white!
 

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

farrahlyn|1479341955|4099491 said:
Off track but why an F? A G colored stone is still very white!
G could also be an option

Can any of you experts recommend any diamonds?
 

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

Ok i've had a chat with the partner and happy to go to G SI1 XXX

Come at me pricescope :dance:
 

johnsta112

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
1
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

As an update - i've put my hopes on this diamond which I have on reserve. It's G XXX SI1 2 carat medium fluorescence. Appears very eye clean with some twinning wisps.

It's 1.8 Excellent on HCA

The table and the 8 dark prongs look very well defined so I'm hoping it returns a good lightscope image which I should have in a couple of days

img_37.jpg
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

Numbers?
 

farrahlyn

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
1,170
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

its a little deep. the multitude of twinning wisps would worry me and the report states that there are more not shown. this can have an effect on sparkle from what i understand.

seems like you're searching for a needle in a haystack. you have a really awesome budget but are really pushing size requirements ... so i think you should give ID Jewelry a call. They're very competitive in pricing and are really awesome at finding stones, sending photos, pics, IS, etc. you can always post his finds here to help choose. if you don't already have a setting picked out, they offer a lot.
 

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

farrahlyn|1479419845|4099902 said:
its a little deep. the multitude of twinning wisps would worry me and the report states that there are more not shown. this can have an effect on sparkle from what i understand.

seems like you're searching for a needle in a haystack. you have a really awesome budget but are really pushing size requirements ... so i think you should give ID Jewelry a call. They're very competitive in pricing and are really awesome at finding stones, sending photos, pics, IS, etc. you can always post his finds here to help choose. if you don't already have a setting picked out, they offer a lot.
Thank you for your reply. Will the slight deepness affect brilliance/fire/light or is it still within excellent range? From what I understand 62.7% is at the upper end of the "excellent" range.

I'll still get the infoscope on this diamond and see how it goes. Unfortunately I can't go down in size so 2 ct G SI1 is pretty much where I need to be. Regarding the twinng wisp's - i'll ask the gemologists to confirm they don't affect the light return and is 100% eye clean

JamesAllen has said I can choose 3 diamonds to get infoscope's from - if anyone here has a spare 10 minutes and wants to help out, I'd love for you to suggest two extra diamonds which may fit the criteria.

I'll keep ID in mind also
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

How about this one? Image looks lovely and crisp. From the image the inclusions under the table seem small and insignificant but you will need to talk to them about it for a gemologist review. I'd also ask regarding the small feathers near the girdle

Seems very promising and b2c always have a cheaper selection from my experience. They usually are really good at providing ASET/idealscopes / videos.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8898055-2.01-carat-Round-diamond-F-color-SI1-clarity.aspx

Also have you seen many G's in person? They really aren't yellow at all, it is not necessary to have medium fluor to 'whiten it up' and are a great sweet point for saving thousands when the difference isn't huge or noticeable
 

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

gm89uk|1479422668|4099917 said:
How about this one? Image looks lovely and crisp. From the image the inclusions under the table seem small and insignificant but you will need to talk to them about it for a gemologist review. I'd also ask regarding the small feathers near the girdle

Seems very promising and b2c always have a cheaper selection from my experience. They usually are really good at providing ASET/idealscopes / videos.

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-8898055-2.01-carat-Round-diamond-F-color-SI1-clarity.aspx

Also have you seen many G's in person? They really aren't yellow at all, it is not necessary to have medium fluor to 'whiten it up' and are a great sweet point for saving thousands when the difference isn't huge or noticeable
Doesn't look too bad - although i'm a bit scared of buying a diamond unsighted with a large amount or clustered inclusions in the table. I think these would be the easiest to spot from the eye, but yes a gemologist may be able to tell me otherwise on review of the stone
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

They usually can provide a video. There is not a large cluster of inclusions. There may be on the video, but not from the image provided. The main inclusion that concerns me is the small dark spot at 8oclock under the table.

B2C have a good refund policy and if you give precise definition to what eyeclean means to you (6-7 inches viewing from the top and the side) then they can answer you reliably.

In my opinion, it appears better cut than the diamond you have selected, which at the 11oclock position seems to have some problems with the hearts, that I suspect will come up as an area of leakage (similar to the 12 and 5 oclock in your original post). Although they weren't idealscope images I bet on a scope they would appear as areas with leakage. It is difficult to judge of course from the video and otherwise seems promising.

To answer your question regarding other diamonds to order Idealscopes for on JA, can't see much in your price range. I would consider dropping to a 1.9, or more realistically dropping to an H, which is still acceptable to the vast majority of people.

My choice would be
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3698972.htm
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3664931.htm ** This is just a touch under 8mm at 1.92 carat. Your deeper cut 2.08 jamesallen stone is 8.115mm (which is NOT a noticeable dfference). The extra weight is not translating into a larger sized diamond.
 

coda72

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 1, 2005
Messages
1,633

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

These are not ASET images they are hearts and arrows images, the same thing you posted the first time. It may help you if you read the education part of the website. these pictures only comment on symmetry and nothing on light performance.
 

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

gm89uk|1479512918|4100412 said:
These are not ASET images they are hearts and arrows images, the same thing you posted the first time. It may help you if you read the education part of the website. these pictures only comment on symmetry and nothing on light performance.
Thank you. No wonder I couldn't interpret it...
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

Here's some help.

If the arrows are WHITE it is a hearts and arrows image. If you see HEARTS and they are white, it's a hearts and arrows image.

And idealscope will have BLACK arrows, or dark grey ones. An ASET will have lots of colors (red, green blue) typically with blue or black arrows.

No one will send you an Idealscope or an ASET image of the BOTTOM of the stone So if you get both the top and bottom, it's likely a hearts and arrows image.

Okay?
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

Here is the Idealscope of the slightly deep (62.7%) James Allen diamond - thoughts? It looks Very Good to Excellent to me but I defer to you experts.

There is slight light leakage on the edges but nothing major. To me it looks like this should have excellent fire/scintillation?

What do you all think? Is this a worthy purchase? I assume the twinning wisp on the edge would be covered by the 6 prong claw anyway

https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/loose-diamonds/round-cut/2.08-carat-g-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-1957311

image_1247.jpg
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

It looks pretty good, better than I expected.It's certainly not perfect and it is not the most symmetrical. The lighter areas under the table demonstrate reduced light return but there is no frank leakage I can see, and this difference may not be noticed to the untrained eye. With the high crown and small table it should be geared for fire. For whatever reason in HCA it gets knocked for scintillation but I'm not sure why.

It is a bit steep but I think it's worthwhile pursuing.
I still probably prefer the cut and look of the B2C one and it may be worh while seeing how clean they think it is and if they can get a idealscope/ASET/video, but this is a decent contender!
 

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

gm89uk|1479679088|4100862 said:
It looks pretty good, better than I expected.It's certainly not perfect and it is not the most symmetrical. The lighter areas under the table demonstrate reduced light return but there is no frank leakage I can see, and this difference may not be noticed to the untrained eye. With the high crown and small table it should be geared for fire. For whatever reason in HCA it gets knocked for scintillation but I'm not sure why.

It is a bit steep but I think it's worthwhile pursuing.
I still probably prefer the cut and look of the B2C one and it may be worh while seeing how clean they think it is and if they can get a idealscope/ASET/video, but this is a decent contender!
Thanks for the feedback! Yes I was surprised the idealscope came back as well as it did considering the slight increased depth over the super ideal depth of 60-62% per pricescope general consensus.

I actually did obtain a video of the B2C one and there is a large inclusion bang spot in the middle which turned me off as it may not be eye clean. B2C wasn't also able to obtain lightscope images so I think it rules that one out.

I think the jamesallen one is a serious contender, I agree it's not an absolute perfect lightscope or symmetry but I think it does pretty well :love:
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

Great, I'm very pleased for you.

Make sure you ask JA to add on the james allen advantage discount (I think that's what they call it). Sometimes it can be a significant discount of more than $300.
 

johnsta83

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 8, 2016
Messages
14
Re: Having lots of trouble picking - help. Bad idealscope im

gm89uk|1479684301|4100882 said:
Great, I'm very pleased for you.

Make sure you ask JA to add on the james allen advantage discount (I think that's what they call it). Sometimes it can be a significant discount of more than $300.
Cheers just requested the final price wit hthe JA Advantage discount
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    5 Diamond Misconceptions: Part 1
    5 Diamond Misconceptions: Part 1
    Three-stone engagement ring upgrade
    Three-stone engagement ring upgrade
    Vintage OEC Bracelet
    Vintage OEC Bracelet

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.

New posts

Top