Having doubts

[Mara]

I beg to disagree. 'Too yellow' is relative. I have seen some really amazing J's set into platinum on the Show me the Ring forum that don't look yellow at all, and the owner corroborated that only a slight tint of warmness was what gave the stone a bit of color. Too yellow for one person may be another person's great deal if their eye does not pick up color. I have seen an old euro cut in platinum that was I color....and I color old stones show some body warmth, and it looked great to me, didn't even see yellow in it--because the stone was just beautiful to look at. So I think it's all relative. I think J would be great to entirely maximize your budget--but if you are unsure as to how your eye perceives color--stick with an I color. Or go into a local store and SEE some I and J colors with your own eyes. Why listen to us? Check for yourself.




Good luck!

 

[Hest88]

I concur with Mara. A "well cut" J RB is going to be a far cry from a badly cut J or a J in a fancy colored stone. Really.

Personally, I'd get on the phone and talk it over with Jonathan or someone else who can tell you honestly. Or, go find your nearest Hearts on Fire dealer and have them show you the difference between their Ds and Is or Js and see how you feel afterward.

Good luck. Your GF is really lucky to have you!

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hi SomeGuy!

A J COLOR H&A/SUPER IDEAL/IDEAL MAY NOT TOO YELLOW FOR YOU!!! I know I've seen it with my own 2 wittle eyes!

I saw a J color, .85 carat, VS, A Cut Above from White Flash and it was marvelous. I am pretty "yellow" color sensitive and I was very pleasantly surprised. It flashed, and sparkled, and was bright and white. IMO, J would be a great color in the 1 carat size range. If we were talking 2 or 3 carats, that would be a different story.

Keep in mind, color is graded cutlet up/table down in the body of the diamond. So if you look thru the side, you will see color in the body of the diamond. But who looks thru the side when a diamond is mounted? You should go to a local B&M diamond broker or jeweler that deals in well cut diamonds and look at a variety of colors. Find out what suits your personal tastes and appeals to your eye. By comparing different colors of diamonds you will find what level of color you can and cannot perceive. J color may just work for you!

Same goes for inclusions. Why pay a premium for something you cannot see with the naked eye? Why pay for VS when you can get a really great, 100% eye clean, SI? The key to inclusions is size, type, color and location. There are eye clean SI1's and even some SI2's out there that will maximize the bang for your buck.

Compromise on color. Compromise on clarity. DO NOT compromise on CUT!

Another thing to keep in mind is that GOG diamond you originally considered will visually appear like most people's 1 carat diamonds. Why? Because they don't have great CUT diamonds. I have a .766 carat, H, SI1, ACA from WF and lots of people have commented about it being "a carat". I recently had mine next to a friend's 3/4 carat, e-ring. She commented that she and hubby would have liked to purchased "a carat" sized diamond but they couldn't afford it. Did I tell her mine isn't a carat?? NO!

Spend as much as possible on a well cut diamond in the lowest color you are comfortable with that is the lowest eye clean clarity you can find. Set the diamond in a temporary setting for the proposal and upgrade the setting later when you have more $$.

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[Groovy Chick]

Mara's right. J being too yellow is just my opinion. Some people are happy with J. I agree you should go hold the J next to some Ds Es and Fs and decide for yourself if it's getting too far from white. I personally wouldn't buy a J but everyone has their own opinion.




Pear Princess

 

[fire&ice]

Someguy needs to make this determination himself - See if the J is too warm for you. Personally, I have seen a few well cut J's set in platinum. Face up they look plenty white. It is only upon further inspection with a colorless (DEF) stone that I can tell.

Round Brilliants are a different animal. They mask *significantly* more color than fancies.

 

[aljdewey]

Someguy: All parties are right here, believe it or not, based on their experiences.




I can see why Pear Princess feels J is too yellow......she has a 1.5 carat FANCY cut stone, which tend to show colors differently than round brilliant diamonds.




I've personally seen an I diamond, and I was surprised that I didn't see color in it. PQ had a J colored ACA superideal diamond on her table for two weeks next to an H.....and if she's saying after that you won't see color....believe me, you won't see color.




Please also keep in mind that many people who've seen J stones have NOT seen them in superideal cuts, and that makes a HELL of a difference. Better cuts tend to mask color. Perhaps Pear Princess hasn't seen a superideal J stone, hence her feeling about the J.




I do, however, want to respond to the following:

----------------
On 12/5/2003 5:44:32 PM Pear Princess wrote:

I agree you should go hold the J next to some Ds Es and Fs and decide for yourself if it's getting too far from white. ----------------

No, he shouldn't hold Js next to D, E, and F stones! That's not how it will be viewed when mounted. Of course it won't look as white as a D, E, F stone, but that doesn't mean it will look yellow by itself. He should view an IDEAL cut, GIA or AGS graded J diamond *by itself*.....face up.....and determine if he sees color.

Incidentally, I just talked to Brian, the cutter at Whiteflash, about a J superideal diamond in his inventory....the one someone mentioned for $4445. He advises it will face up *without color*, and if he says it, I believe him.

If he were on an unlimited budget, I could understand your push to steer him away, but you're telling him to disregard a whole spectrum of stones that may help him get what he really wants and that look BEAUTIFUL and face up just fine. I personally think that's doing him a disservice.

----------------
On 12/5/2003 5:44:32 PM Pear Princess wrote:

I personally wouldn't buy a J but everyone has their own opinion.

---------------

I personally wouldn't buy a pear stone because I can't stand bowties and less light return.....but I wouldn't tell you that *you* shouldn't consider it or prefer it.

 

[someguy]

Well, there sure is a lot to think about. I think that I'll go down to the maul (I know, I know, but there aren't any other places close to me) and check out a few stones just to compare colors. Jim Shultz for Dirt Cheep Diamonds just mailed me back about that 1 ct diamond at $4186 and so I have to decide if I want to lose that one at GOG or not. I'm sure that it's going to go fast, I my hold expires tomorrow!

I just had a brilliant Idea! I could just get a ring box and put a check inside and tell my gf to get what pleases her the most! But I guess it wouldn't be too romantic...

I still really like that diamond at GOG though, and when I take a step back I'm certain that my girl would too. This board is great, but I wonder if it is good for my wallet! It seems that the more time I spend here, the more money I consider spending. LOL!

 

[someguy]

aljdewey, I just read your post after my last reply so I'll make sure that I try to view the best cut J's and keep in mind that the one that I'll see will probably not do it justice anyway. I'll keep you posted!

 

[aljdewey]

Someguy......don't be sheepish or apologetic about going to the mall. You're going there to learn, not to buy.




Please remember this:




Ask for their BEST cut stones in J color.....seeing a poorly-cut stone in a J isn't going to tell you ANYTHING meaningful..




Also, make sure the grading labs are GIA or AGS (although I don't think you'll find AGS stones unless you go high-end like Long's or Bailey Banks, etc.




What area of the country are you in?

 

[Mara]

Happens to the best of us SomeGuy!!

Budget schmudget!

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 12/5/2003 6:14:59 PM aljdewey wrote:


Someguy......don't be sheepish or apologetic about going to the mall. You're going there to learn, not to buy.


-

I know this wasn't what Al meant - but,

I want to go on record to say: if you are in the process of buying a stone I see nothing wrong with any fact finding mission you may have with the various B&M's. You are a potential customer. You aren't shopping around to see how good of a deal you got to entertain yourself after your purchase.

Good luck.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 12/5/2003 6:19:59 PM fire&ice wrote:

I know this wasn't what Al meant - but,

I want to go on record to say: if you are in the process of buying a stone I see nothing wrong with any fact finding mission you may have with the various B&M's. You are a potential customer. You aren't shopping around to see how good of a deal you got to entertain yourself after your purchase.

----------------

You're right, F&I.......that isn't what I meant, and I'm glad you picked up on the distinction. It's an important one.

For those who may not have: Fact finding *if* you are "in the process" of buying a stone is fair game....because the possibility, however remote, does exist that you could decide to buy from one of them.

F&I's precisely right, though. I just bought my stone.....there is now NO possibility that I will buy a stone from the B&Ms, so going out now on the *pretense* of being in the market is wasting the time of the jewelers who are trying to earn a living.

 

[canadiangrrl]

I am going to repeat my broken-record speech: go to Tiffany if there's a store within driving distance. They have properly graded RB's in platinum settings. You will not see a J, because Tiffany doesn't sell them, but you will likely see D to I.

If I were you, I'd go up to I in colour and down to SI2 in clarity, in order to maximize the ol' budget. Actually, I'd get an eyeclean I1, but they're seemingly hard to find (particularly in a well cut stone) and you don't have months and months, do you?

 

[pqcollectibles]

And, on the Maul front,....

Some, do you have a Helzberg's in your local maul? Helzberg's carries a Master Piece line of H&A diamonds. They will take you into a "private diamond viewing room" to look at them but you can see true H&A's live and in person. The one I went to had F, G, H, and I colors of very similar sizes to compare.

Check the yellow pages for Diamond Brokers and look at the BIG ads for jewelers. Call a few and ask if they have an assortment of well cut diamonds for you to preview. I didn't encounter any J colored diamonds in my treks, but I did see plenty of I colored diamonds available.

I did my fair share of shopping around before I decided to buy. I could apply what I learned here to the real world visually. It is a big help! And, those shopping/learning expeditions are fair game to me as well. If you haven't already bought, then you are a prospective customer for them.

BTW, AL,.... It wasn't 2 weeks. I could wish. It was 4 days. I had 2 ACA's from White Flash to preview. H color, New Line, and J color, Classic. I would put them out on the dining table to lay all day long, and then "put them to bed" each nite. I wanted to see them in all different types of lighting. I even did the candle thing a couple of times. Turn out all the lights and view both by candlelight only. It was a real toss up. Half the people that saw them liked the J and half like the H, with 1 vote to flip a coin. Ultimately, I preferred the performance of the New Line the best, so that's the one I chose. The Classic cut was absolutely gorgeous too, so it was a really difficult choice to make.

 

[Traveler]

Hey Someguy,

I'm not a diamond expert but I read your message and I actually liked your idea of traveling the world with the money. I proposed to my wife in Nepal and we were married the next day by a Great Lama. (True story) We used Bhuddist amulets instead of rings. We didn't have two cents to rub together but we used all the money we could scrape up to create tremendous memories and cement our relationship in strange places where we really learned about each other. Later, when we had money, I bought a 1.4 carat ideal VS1 E in a platinum setting and we had an expensive wedding with friends. She loved it but she still wears that ugly bronze amulet everywhere she goes.

What does this have to do with you worrying over a J color? Well I'm married ten years now and shopping for H&A earrings to go with her diamond. Now that I can afford them I can give her diamonds that are worthy of her. You will too but don't mortgage your future to do it now. (Wait til you find out what the wedding will cost you too).

Why not share an adventure together first and enjoy the freedom that comes after school. Unlike memories or a diamond, it won't last forever. Best of Luck in whatever you choose.

 

[icelady]

Hi Someguy!

I just saw your post on the I 1.20 H@A diamond. It has a faint fluor. I just witnessed yesterday an extremely well cut princess diamond that was and I color and it looked like a better color next to my F color round!! I was shocked, but as a lot of of people have said before, the cut can make a diamond look whiter, and a little fluor. can help in an I color stone also. I was absolutely shocked when the gemologist told me I was looking at an I color.

I am definitely not an expert, but I love diamonds, probably because you can find a well cut I color that looks spectacular!!!

icelady

 

[valeria101]

Boy, this looks like some complicated process!

No, there is not the same amount of difference between a well cut and supper cut (whatever you mean). The version of this Q I would ask GOG (or whoever) is wether the 3 light return scales of that Brilliancescope of his are liniar of not. I believe they are not, but could not find this bit of info anywhere.

Those badly cut diamonds do have a helpful property: they show color better than a well-cut (the less sparkle, the more the shade of body color is visible). You know what you've seen. In the size range you are after, H is not necesarily the least expensive thing that looks white. Your best cut thing would certainly be more of a rarity than a 'colorless' grade rock.

It seems like you will not be pleased with anything but the best light return (despite my last post

)... oh well, it is good to know something for sure out of those 000' Cs. Does Jonathan have a J, VS which pegs the index on the top of the white light return scale? If so, than I would get to see it near your previous stone and go for the winner. Whatever your girl would choose, this is a gift and the choice of the giver is an added quality to it. By all means, you might want to bind a book woth all the diamond reserach you've done! This has been one of the most heated debates around for quite a while!

 

[diane5006]

Hi I am posting pics of a previous posters ring form show me the ring forum...I think this is one of the ones that Mara referred to...

Poster "Nate" ring 3 stone Vatche truffle Center stone 1.33 J SI1, sides >.50 J SI2

Hope this helps...

Also would it work to have your GF work with you to pick the stone and setting and have you suprise her with the completed ring and time an place of proposal...thats what we did...hee hee hee

 

[diane5006]

next pic

 

[diane5006]

another pic

 

[diane5006]

Here is a link to Nates post

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/i-got-the-ring-wooohoooo-thumbs-up-gog.7715/

 

[valeria101]

Judging color from pics is trichy (no-go for me) so why not se how wide the bias can be for a start? A site with many diamonds of various color grades, all with pics, would probably help. Try Stuller (the "large diamonds" list under "showroom"). Their pictures of D-colors look like anythig from ice-white to fancy yellow! Keeping in mind who the buyers from this source are, those pictures were not even meant to represent color... they can't. The difference between adjacent color grades is hard enough to see in person: electronic images shift color all over and so much so that even pictures using reference stones should be taken with a good doze of seazoning. Believe me...

The one image that can help is one of a D near your stone(s), both face-down of non-fluorescent, white paper. Not sure if asking for this would thrill your seller, but if you tone down the request with a nice explanation that 1) you don't expect the H to look like a D, and that 2) you know that the sparkle of the face-up position plus the setting blurres differences between color grades... well, maybe it works. If you cannot live with half od the color difference of the stones face-down, than back off from lower color: you may see some of that tint from the side of the stone. At least this bias is quite evident in the pictures of the Js above.

Hope this helps?

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 12/6/2003 1:03:26 poster by jlim:

<----------------

Ah, the classics. And, brought back on a Friday.

Yeah, his ring did turn out nice. Keep in mind he started his search absolutely sold on a <.50 D/IF.

 

[ceetee]

hi
i rarely post but i learned so much from from this board I thought i would share my exprerience if it would be any help. we recently bought a cushion cut diamond 2.26 (newly cut but cut in the old style) I/VS1. Budget was not a primary factor ....we actually had an E stones that we were considering side by side with the I. I voluntarliy picked the I and I am very sensitive to color! It looks absolutely white but with a tiny bit of warmth as compared to the E that I personally preferred. i was fortunate to work with someone who had access to beautiful cuts....the cut is great and that came across in the side by side comparisons. I have an absolutely beautiful diamond ring and I wouldn't trade it for any "better" color.

 

[Toska]

Any jeweller in a mall should have a set of cubic zirconia's to use as a colour reference ranging from D-J possibly lower.

Why not ask a jeweller to whip out their cubic zirconia's for you to compare?