Oh well, I guess since Pherlee's question has actually been answered now, there's no reason to not comment some more on Diamondsman and my disagreement. This one may get even longer than my previous posts. Maybe a "You must be at least this tall to ride on this attraction" sign is in order.
Mara,
I have no defense for the "mountain out of a molehill" comment. I do sort of get worked up sometimes about what I see as some folks' tendency to post certain comments to threads for what I see as less than noble reasons, and sometimes that just boils over unexpectedly. I think this "condition" of mine is the result of having seen it happen so frequently that sometimes it just gets me going, and a tenacious streak that causes me to never give up when I think I'm right about something. As it turns out, I tend to write
a lot when I get on a roll (could you tell???

, so that combination of factors often just causes my typing fingers to get away from me, sometimes with bewildering results. Unfortunately for some, I'm still not done yet since I have to reply to the latest comments from Diamondsman, which IMO are much more inflammatory than anything I've said to or about him thus far. His tone will result in a reciprocal tone from me, I fear. I'm sorry if I turned this thread upside-down for the casual browser, but I still stand by everything I've said (and everything I'm about to).
I also agree with you that there is a gray area in the forums as concerns what is and isn't appropriate to post, but as fate would have it, Leonid has made it clear in his post on this thread that he feels the vendor comments were inappropriate as well. Since this is "his house," as you very eloquently put it, I'd say his opinion is the last word on that issue, so just about everything I've written since then has been to rebut Diamondsman's insistent protestations of innocence.
Diamondsman,
You may feel free to not reply to my comments. If you'd have been silent on this thread in the first place, I wouldn't have commented at all. However, your most recent posts directed at me fairly demand rebuttal, and I'm fully capable of defending my position, so here we go again...
"
you keep on avoiding the last sentence on the thread, and you never mentioned it on any of your "articles"!let me remind you..."
Rather than excerpt one line of Pherlee's original post, let's just look at it within the context of the question itself:
"
Pardon my ignorance but does Harry Winston carry any engagement rings around the range of 1 carat, VS1, color F? All I hear from that place are 3 carat diamond rings over $60K. And their website isn't very helpful. I feel embarrassed to even call them only to have them laugh at me for asking for such a puny diamond."
Now, his comments about their website not being very helpful and feeling embarrassed about calling was a direct explanation of
why he hadn't been able to get the answer himself to
the question he was actually asking for help with from the pricescope readers. Talk about trying to twist the meaning of a post! The question he asked was "
...does Harry Winston carry any engagement rings around the range of 1 carat, VS1, color F?" You can tell that's the question portion of the post by that funny little squiggly bit of punctuation called a "question mark" at the end of it. Everything after that was expository (meant to explain why he was asking the question), and to my way of thinking certainly wasn't an invitation to offer information about anything other than Harry Winston merchandise.
"
I don't appreciate you bashing me and my integrity as I don't even know you and don't care to,I have been in the diamond business for 30 years and have the greatest reputaion and made a nice living without your silly comments!!"
Actually, nothing in my posts actually does anything remotely like "bashing" you or your integrity as a diamond dealer. All I was actually saying was that I felt you had set a pattern of self-promotion in the forums that undermined your claims that you innocently just try to help on the forums without any self-interest whatsoever. Your integrity as a diamond dealer isn't really at issue since I have said absolutely nothing about your business, good or bad. I do wonder why you would post comments about your site in the third-person, but I never drew any conclusions in my comments about that.
"
I only gave him another alternative and did not mention my website,"
He didn't ask for an alternative to Harry Winston.
"
And I really don't have the time nor the desire to go in and look at all your comments on every thread that you have written ,as I am sure I will find many of your wording that i can twist and bash you also, but this is all kids play!!"
I wish you would take up that challenge, as I am pretty confident I will not be exposed as a hypocrite on this. I've given endorsements to diamond dealers on the forums, but they have always been in reply to a user's direct request for suggestions or endorsements, so it was absolutely relevant to the question. As far as the kid's play part, you may be right at this point. I must admit that I'm enjoying defending my position, especially since I've yet to see any point made other than Mara's "mountain out of a molehill" comment that makes me feel at all like I'm not completely justified.
"
I must have threatened your livelyhood in some way for you to go about things the way you did,"
As I stated in the "disclaimer" in my first post on this thread, I am not in the industry and derive no income from it. Whatever you say in the forums doesn't threaten my livelihood, but IMO some of the comments from some of the vendors cumulatively threaten the forums themselves. My previous posts describe why I feel some of these comments are threats to RockyTalk, so I won't rehash them here.
"
I guess until we got into this forum you were the only voice heard on this forum and now that there is another few voices on here it does not suit you, well get used to it!!"
Everybody who has posted to this thread, with the exception of Pherlee himself, has been a member of the forums for longer than I, so no, I've never been "the only voice heard on this forum." I have certainly been a pretty active contributor to the forums since I joined, but I have always just been one among many. I've always welcomed comments from all participants
with the exception of comments that I see as unsolicited promotion of diamond dealers, whether they be from the dealers themselves or from others.
"
we are all here to inform consumers to get the best value for their dollar!"
I would contend that the spirit of the boards is to participate in a community of diamond enthusiasts and to
help people with questions get the answers to those questions. This thread was started by someone who wasn't necessarily looking for "the best value for their dollar," so why are some people automatically steering him in a different direction? I like Pepsi. If I ask a question about a Pepsi product, I don't want someone to say "you should buy the generic store-brand soft drinks and save some money." I want the answer to the question I asked about Pepsi products! Similarly, many people have a liking for Cartier, Tiffany, Harry Winston, or any number of other upscale jewelers. If they ask specific questions about what sorts of products are carried by one of these jewelers, why would anyone presume to tell them to look at something else, and by extension essentially criticize their choice of jeweler? If I had the money, I very likely would have considered one of these jewelers too, as there is definitely and inarguably some cachet to be enjoyed when owning one of these pieces. These brands have a higher resale value than other (otherwise comparable) items for just that reason.
"
also your comment about sales tax is the same as what I have said ,you just like to twist it to make it sound your way!you wrote"This tax is known as a "use tax" and is designed primarily to allow states to continue to receive their tax revenue on any item purchased from within its borders" that means that if they are not in their borders they will not pay the tax.and that is exactly what i said but you like to twist things.you also write (not yet) we are talking about now !! not what will happen in a year or six months from now."
FINALLY! You've actually pointed out something I wrote that actually could be construed as inaccurate! The statement technically isn't inaccurate, but a rather clumsy wording on my part makes me see how it could easily be construed that way. Let me clarify the statement: "This tax is known as a 'use tax' and is designed primarily to allow states to continue to receive their tax revenue on any item purchased from within its borders," was meant to convey the idea that the
transaction occurred within the state's borders (the word "from" in the sentence could make it seem like the
item purchased is within the state, which would be a normal sales tax issue).
has to say about use tax in your state: "
Use tax is a component of Florida's sales and use tax. It is due on purchases made out of state and brought into Florida within 6 months of the purchase date. Also, if you purchase a product tax-exempt that you plan to sell at retail, but end up using it at your place of business, the 'use' of the product is subject to sales tax. If you purchase materials that are 'consumed' in a manufacturing process to create your end product but are not part of the end product, those materials are subject to sales tax." Another common wording for the description of the use tax is: "
The use tax is a companion tax to the sales tax. Sales tax is a tax on sales in . Use tax is a tax applied to purchases made outside . Use tax is imposed for storing, using, or consuming goods (tangible personal property) in . All states that have a sales tax also have a corresponding use tax." Essentially, if you consider an Internet transaction to be "in state," you are responsible to pay a sales tax. If you consider an Internet transaction to be "out of state," you are responsible to pay a use tax. So, although I inadvertently added an incorrect word, the essence of what I intended to say is true: To advocate buying on the Internet to avoid taxes is usually to advocate breaking the law.
"
so please dont lecture me..."
I had never intended to "lecture" anybody, but I fully realize that when posts get as long as mine sometimes do, the risk of being perceived that way gets pretty big. As I said at the beginning of this post, sometimes I do get riled up, and when that happens I sometimes start typing furiously with unpredictable results. I regret that this has gotten so out of hand, but I have always had a "never give up if you think you're right" attitude, and this thread has really brought that side of my personality out. It's also worth noting that if you didn't consistently stick to a position that I see as untenable, this all would have gone away already.
"
i have been in this business just as long or maybe longer than you made a nice living ,very reputable ,honest and will not steer anyone wrong even if it means loosing a sale!!"
Since I'm not "in this business" at all, you no doubt have been in it longer. I also have no reason to believe that you aren't reputable and honest. I've never questioned whether you were an honest businessman since I have no knowledge of your professional ethics or integrity. I only commented that it is my opinion that you sometimes make inappropriate off-topic comments to users' questions. I never suggested that you would "steer anyone wrong," but on the other hand, in this thread you certainly didn't do anything to actually
answer the poster's question, so you didn't exactly steer him right either.
"
This will be the last time I will answer your reply."
As I stated at the beginning, that's your prerogative.
"
sorry all but some people like to make a big deal out of nothing,I dinot see the gentelmen that started this thread getting upset with our comments ,so why is Tim optimized getting all upset"
I would ask you to please
not presume to apologize for my behavior. I truly
am surprised at how big this issue got, but while I certainly bear a responsibility for bringing this issue into the forefront of the thread, let's not forget that you and DiamondOptics are the folks who originally posted completely off-topic comments (that, I might remind you, even resulted in an admonishment from the moderator).
Pherlee indeed didn't complain about the course this thread has taken, but then again in all likelihood he hasn't seen folks post off-topic promotional comments time and time again in the forums, to the point where he finds it excruciating. Give him a few months of reading the sorts of comments that disregard the thread originator's question for the sake of promoting the Internet as a diamond market, and he might be the same as me. It would be unfortunate, but it could happen.
I've explained why I take this so seriously a few times now, and I believe the reasons for my stance are sound. If the Pricescope forums become just a big message board where people ask questions about diamonds and just receive veiled sales pitches or get shoved toward other places on the Internet, how long will people continue to post those questions? Granted, I have no vested interest in seeing the forum continue to be a useful and fun place to actually learn about diamonds and gemology, but as long as I still think there's a chance to keep the forums somewhat informative and "commercial free," I may keep doing what I do.
Once again, I'd like to say that I regret the way this thread turned out. I knew when I posted my first comment in this thread that I would likely hear protests from the vendors I cited, but I really didn't think it would get this big. If no more comments directed to me are forthcoming I will drop the topic, but I will do so with full confidence that my position is consistent with the spirit of the RockyTalk forums, and that I was right to feel the way I do about the first two replies to Pherlee's question. Nothing anybody has said has really convinced me (or anybody, judging by the lack of vocalized support for the vendors involved) that my original take on the issue was incorrect. Except for that astute (but pesky) "mountain out of a molehill" comment, I think I've done a pretty decent job of defending my position.
-Tim
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