Hand forged vintage setting designers?

[luv2lift]

Hi PS'ers! I am calling on the expertise of your collective minds and will try and keep this short....

Thank you to those who gave their thoughts during my loose diamond search. I ended up with a gorgeous AGS 000 princess and am now in the market for a custom setting to match. VC, to our greatest disappointment, turned down the project, and so its back to the drawing board!! I'm looking for three or four suggestions on top tier designers that fit this criteria:

-Can source the finest quality melee/side stones
-Has a stellar reputation with PS'ers for superior craftsmanship and detailing
-Preferably 100% hand forged....but willing to take a look at a mix of CAD and hand forged
-Specializes or has notable experience with chunkier, vintage/antique pieces
-Can potentially work in multiple mediums?

I have had some suggestions from a trusted source, so any thoughts/experiences with these artisans would be appreciated as well (ie do they fit the criteria, your satisfaction with their work, etc...)

-Jim Summa of Summa Jewelers
-BGD's #1 go to platinumsmith
-Ocean Pearlman

Here are a few pictures below of design/structural elements we might want to incorporate from basic cast rings she liked.
BTW its our first time designing a ring, so what we know we want has a short list and is rudimentary in nature. We are hoping a designer can provide creative insight and hand-holding! lol
Thanks for your 2 cents!!

 

[luv2lift]

Sorry in advance for the pics not being the greatest!

 

[maccers]

Sounds like an exciting project!

It would help to know a bit more about:
1. what elements of the above setting you like. Graduated shoulders, scroll-work in the under gallery, milgrain etc
2. was there a particular reason VC wouldn't take this project on?

 

[luv2lift]

Hi Maccers, Thanks for the response!!

To answer your question, she likes how the band gets thicker as it ascends to the center stone (1st setting depicted), wants a square halo, likes the baguette stones on the sides of the 1st setting depicted, as well as the carving on the undergallery in both pics. She is a fan of milgrain and filigree in general. Her finger size is 7.5 so she wants a chunkier ring so it has presence. One issue as far as creativity and conceptualization goes is its been extremely hard to find hand forged pieces in a vintage/antique styling so we can get a feel of our options. The market is inundated with cast modern and contemporary styles or thin/dainty customs? Anyone have any good pics of exceptional/unique settings that fit the bill?

VC stated that he has been focusing on delicate, unique pieces the last couple of years....we also wanted to work in a white gold medium due to the price point of platinum, and wanted to be able to dump more money into high quality side stones/melee. Maybe it was a detailing issue using the harder metal or labor and time involved that made it not worth it...or just dis-interest. Either way, we would consider platinum if we had too. Hope that helps lol!

 

[ecf8503]

SK? LM? Even JbEG - they have a contact in France (I think...) that has done some beautiful work for them...

 

[ame]

I could be wrong, Jim would have to chime in here, but I don't know that Jim Summa does 100% hand forged rings.

You're looking for a niche style from what it sounds like though, vintage style work. Single Stone or JBEG might be someone to talk to or that Sebastian Barier person from France that 66mint.com uses for some settings (may need to use JBEG or 66Mint to facilitate). But know that you will NOT be getting this inexpensively, so if you're on a budget, you will need to rethink this.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I don't think Leon or SK will take the project because of the detail on the shank
. I would suggest single stone or maybe Athenaworth's jeweler for her e ring.

 

[yennyfire]

I'd call Ari at Singlestone...

 

[Dreamer_D]

For that style I would choose Singlestone.

 

[yssie]

Another vote for SS or JbEG.

My advice: don't get too hung up on vendor popularity or method of manufacture - the right vendor for the job is someone who has successfully executed this sort of piece before (to your tastes, obviously), and the right vendor for the job will pick the right tools for the job. I (based on my understanding of what you want and my tastes) don't believe VC/SK/LM is that vendor - that VC turned your project down on hearing the specifics and recognizing that his interests/talents lie elsewhere is very much to his credit!

 

[maccers]

To echo Yssie's point about not getting hung up on method of manufacture too much...I think you'd have some luck with Tacori or Verragio stylistically.

http://www.tacori.com/engagement/ht2601pr85.html
http://www.tacori.com/engagement/ht2613pr85.html
http://www.verragio.com/Verragio-Engagement-Rings/Insignia-Engagement-Rings/INSIGNIA-7068CU?slide=

While Tacori isn't all hand forged, the quality and finishing is excellent adn they can do some customization. Having said that, if you aren't limited by budget, I'm sure there is someone out there who can take on this work. Just about anything is possible if you have the money

 

[luv2lift]

Thank you all for the responses!

I think many good points have been made so far. After striving to attain a high quality diamond, I picked VC fairly quickly because of the quality of the work i've seen, and his overall reputation. I should have gotten an idea for the vendors that do exceptional vintage style settings before reaching out. Live and learn!

There seems to be an overwhelming recommendation for Singlestone, and rightly so. I looked into SS threads and am very pleased with the quality of their work and the satisfaction of those same PS'ers with their final pieces. I also took a look at their website and believe that their designs are on the same general level as what we are looking to create.

It seems that creating a custom setting might be more challenging and detailed than I originally thought (I read the post on # of settings that are a success vs failure Here is what we want, roughly: a square halo a little lower than center stone, incorporation of some of the elements from the pics (including melee/milgrain/filigree elements), and a few small touches to make it unique. Would love to have imput from the artist, who might be able to develop our tastes from something simple to exquisite. Although in all honesty, my GF doesn't have an exact image in her mind, only separate elements already done before, which is why we would like to tweak them slightly.

Question 1: Anyone who has gone down this road before have any tips that would apply to us before contacting SS and embarking on the creation process? It seems it can get pretty complicated...

Question 2: What are the finer points in determining the settings appraisal/worth? Is it craftsmanship/detailing, platinum vs white gold, the current demand in the vintage style market, or is there more?? I just want to do what I can for the setting to have a strong contribution to the appraisal value of the ring as a whole, not just the diamond.

I am thankful for having such a wonderful pricescope family I can turn to for help
I am blessed

 

[pinkjewel]

although, I would highly recommend Singlestone and that was the first vendor that came to mind (in the US)- you might also want to check out Maytal Hannah. I think her prices tend to be a little less expensive and I think she does a lovely job with vintage type settings. Not sure her settings are hand forged, but are Singlestone's?

 

[SB621]

Personally I wouldn't go with an of the jewelers you mentioned and I'm not surprised at all that VC would turn this down. It is very antique and that estiquette is not his style.

If you want the top of the line I would only go with 2 places. Single Stone and 23rd St Jewelers. I wouldn't look anywhere else. They create pieces that are more vintage and their miligraining is to die for. Check them out.

 

[CharmyPoo]

I an not understanding why the appraisal value matters. With that said, appraisal value for a setting is usually driven by metal weight, metal type, amount and quality of diamonds, and brand name. All of these factors also contribute to what you are paying.

I have some comments on the design and will send when I get to a computer.

Be aware that 23rd street is crazy expensive and don't respond to emails. They will only work for people going in person.

 

[SB621]

Question 1: Anyone who has gone down this road before have any tips that would apply to us before contacting SS and embarking on the creation process? It seems it can get pretty complicated...
Nope just have an idea of what you want. If you have better/ clearer pictures then what you posted that would help. I have no idea why you want hand forged as what you are describing sounds much better CAST. That way you can see and approve the CADs before it is made. The best advice I can give is pick exactly how invovled you are going to be in the process and don't expect your chosen vendor to read your mind. Either give them creative control and hope for the best or be as involved as you can be. I think most disappointment is when people assume their vendors see the vision which end up not matching up.

Question 2: What are the finer points in determining the settings appraisal/worth? Is it craftsmanship/detailing, platinum vs white gold, the current demand in the vintage style market, or is there more?? I just want to do what I can for the setting to have a strong contribution to the appraisal value of the ring as a whole, not just the diamond.
Metal will determine some value but typically it will just depend on how intrique or ornate your setting is. The more involved it is the more it will cost. However, the setting should only add what you actually paid for it to the apprisal value. Meaning if you pay 5k then you add 5k. You shouldn't have your appriaser up the value if it is not worth it. I suggest you read the threads here on how to sucessful insure an ering.

 

[yssie]

Question 1: Anyone who has gone down this road before have any tips that would apply to us before contacting SS and embarking on the creation process? It seems it can get pretty complicated...
Nope just have an idea of what you want. If you have better/ clearer pictures then what you posted that would help. I have no idea why you want hand forged as what you are describing sounds much better CAST. That way you can see and approve the CADs before it is made. The best advice I can give is pick exactly how invovled you are going to be in the process and don't expect your chosen vendor to read your mind. Either give them creative control and hope for the best or be as involved as you can be. I think most disappointment is when people assume their vendors see the vision which end up not matching up.

Agree!
Picky + know exactly what you want = good when vendor shares your vision/lets you be very involved, bad when vendor doesn't share your vision and doesn't want you as involved.
Picky + don't know exactly what you want = disaster unless your vendor can give you a good idea of what the product will look like beforehand (CAD, detailed sketches, etc.)


Question 2: What are the finer points in determining the settings appraisal/worth? Is it craftsmanship/detailing, platinum vs white gold, the current demand in the vintage style market, or is there more?? I just want to do what I can for the setting to have a strong contribution to the appraisal value of the ring as a whole, not just the diamond.
Metal will determine some value but typically it will just depend on how intrique or ornate your setting is. The more involved it is the more it will cost. However, the setting should only add what you actually paid for it to the apprisal value. Meaning if you pay 5k then you add 5k. You shouldn't have your appriaser up the value if it is not worth it. I suggest you read the threads here on how to sucessful insure an ering.
Agree!
The more ornate/elaborate the setting, the more the work that has to go into crafting it - and the more the cost ratio titls re. labour vs. materials. I also don't understand why the appraisal value of the setting matters - get the setting you love and insure the ring for what it's worth, stone and setting, no agonizing necessary

 

[luv2lift]

Hi Charmypoo! You caught me. Appraisal value isn't my #1 priority, (her happiness is), but on the flip side, I've spent a lot of time reading and researching. I was using the ring appraisal as a benchmark to judge quality of the ring and how good a job I did to make it happen (how much is the ring worth vs how much I paid for it?). Our diamond was valued at +30% more than what I paid, using a "middle of the road" formula (Is this normal for most diamonds that are appraised?), and I wanted to do what I could so the setting would translate again to a higher value than what I paid, using honest methonds (ie quality materials and superior craftsmanship/detailing). If, like SarahBear said, the setting only adds the same value to the overall appraisal as what I end up paying, then im fine with that too. In the end I think this was caused by a little bit of A: Me not knowing what the heck i'm talking about when it comes to settings (I spent all my time focusing on diamond education), and a whole lot of B: wanting, like so many, to feel like id gotten a great value/deal! lol

SarahBear: I DO wish I had better pics! We snapped those casually while at a "whole sale" location when we first started our search. Turns out she liked that style/setting more than almost anything else she saw. I think, due to my lack of knowledge on the subject, I perceived "hand forged" not only to be unique and rare, which I am attracted to, but also superior to all other settings out there. I realize now that was misguided, and that sometimes cast is a better option, depending on the project.

Yssie: I You and SarahBear have uncovered our biggest issue...Picky + don't know exactly what we want!! I am pickier. I had a vision of a high quality, exquisite heirloom. She is overall very particular with the major details, but has no idea/could go with the flow with the minuscule stuff. I would like to give SingleStone the pertinent details and tell them we want something unique and stunning, then give them creative control from there and see what happens.

Question 1: I know SS deals a lot with antique diamonds. Do they have the ability to obtain high grade sidestones/melee that isnt?

Question 2: If I had a choice I would probably go with a white gold setting so I can dump more money into labor and accent stones. Can I achieve the same level of craftsmanship and detailing using white gold vs platinum or is platinum vital for this?

All the best! Hope everyone enjoys their weekend!

 

[backwardsandinheels]

Hello,
Single Stone is making an upgrade ring for me and we discussed the side stone issue very recently. They like to use old European and single cuts of G/H color. If they're any lower color they start to look murky I 'm told, they also guaranteed I'd love the look. Be sure to check their archive and sold part of the website too. Maybe you can tweak an existing design to your liking. good luck!

 

[TravelingGal]

I an not understanding why the appraisal value matters. With that said, appraisal value for a setting is usually driven by metal weight, metal type, amount and quality of diamonds, and brand name. All of these factors also contribute to what you are paying.

I have some comments on the design and will send when I get to a computer.

Be aware that 23rd street is crazy expensive and don't respond to emails. They will only work for people going in person.

I will say I agree that SS is easier to work with remotely than 23rd street. But they are on par in terms of price. My ring from 23rd street was actually less than the work quoted me at singlestone for a less elaborate ring. But I'll amend that to say that I worked the price down at 23rd street as well.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I cannot picture a modern cut like a princess in a truly vintage setting like Singlestone (and are those handforged? I thought they were cast?).

I would explore vendors like Simon G and Natalie K, etc., who have modern settings with antique style elements. Those would be better especially if you want white gold. Victor prefers platinum for handforged pave rings and he does more delicate styles, so I can understand why he turned down the job. I don't think you should be concerned about cast for the type ring you want, and especially if you are going with white gold.

http://www.simongjewelry.com/Collection/Bridal/14843/EN&pg=all

http://www.nataliek.com/engagement-rings/princesse-collection.html/

http://www.kirkkara.com/

 

[backwardsandinheels]

I'd like to add Beverley K as well. They will customize something for you too as well as have many designs for princess cuts/square stones with vintage elements. If you get the setting through a PS vendor, you may get a PS discount.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I'd like to add Beverley K as well. They will customize something for you too as well as have many designs for princess cuts/square stones with vintage elements. If you get the setting through a PS vendor, you may get a PS discount.

+1 (forgot that one!)

 

[Christina...]

Hi Charmypoo! You caught me. Appraisal value isn't my #1 priority, (her happiness is), but on the flip side, I've spent a lot of time reading and researching. I was using the ring appraisal as a benchmark to judge quality of the ring and how good a job I did to make it happen (how much is the ring worth vs how much I paid for it?). Our diamond was valued at +30% more than what I paid, using a "middle of the road" formula (Is this normal for most diamonds that are appraised?), and I wanted to do what I could so the setting would translate again to a higher value than what I paid, using honest methonds (ie quality materials and superior craftsmanship/detailing). If, like SarahBear said, the setting only adds the same value to the overall appraisal as what I end up paying, then im fine with that too. In the end I think this was caused by a little bit of A: Me not knowing what the heck i'm talking about when it comes to settings (I spent all my time focusing on diamond education), and a whole lot of B: wanting, like so many, to feel like id gotten a great value/deal! lol

SarahBear: I DO wish I had better pics! We snapped those casually while at a "whole sale" location when we first started our search. Turns out she liked that style/setting more than almost anything else she saw. I think, due to my lack of knowledge on the subject, I perceived "hand forged" not only to be unique and rare, which I am attracted to, but also superior to all other settings out there. I realize now that was misguided, and that sometimes cast is a better option, depending on the project.

Yssie: I You and SarahBear have uncovered our biggest issue...Picky + don't know exactly what we want!! I am pickier. I had a vision of a high quality, exquisite heirloom. She is overall very particular with the major details, but has no idea/could go with the flow with the minuscule stuff. I would like to give SingleStone the pertinent details and tell them we want something unique and stunning, then give them creative control from there and see what happens.

Question 1: I know SS deals a lot with antique diamonds. Do they have the ability to obtain high grade sidestones/melee that isnt?

Question 2: If I had a choice I would probably go with a white gold setting so I can dump more money into labor and accent stones. Can I achieve the same level of craftsmanship and detailing using white gold vs platinum or is platinum vital for this?

All the best! Hope everyone enjoys their weekend!

Don't fall into this trap. A diamond sells for what it is worth in that particular market. If you had paid 30% more for the stone then you would have overpaid by 30%. Should you ever damage or lose your stone, your insurance company is either going to replace it with a stone of like kind and quality from their supplier, or they will offer to cut you a check for the amount that they could replace the stone for. This has nothing to do with the amount that you insure the stone for. In theory you could have an appraisal saying that your stone is $100,000 but if you paid $20,000 for it, then expect your insurance company to be able to do the same, in the end you just pay inflated premiums for an inflated appraisal. The same goes for a setting. I think that some here insure for cost plus 10%, but most insure for cost and keep an eye on diamond prices...if they rise, they adjust, if they fall, they adjust the other way.

I also agree with the others that have stated that you shouldn't get caught up in which method is used to create your dream ring. Some methods are better for specific styles than other. I once assumed that hand forging was a superior form of manufacture until I spend some time on these boards and witnessed others experiences with each. If you choose a great bench, they will be able to tell you which form or manufacture is best suited for your style. You are paying for their expertise so I would trust them...if you don't, then it would serve you well to find a new bench. I would also just caution that custom can be a very stressful experience even for the most seasoned of PSers. It will take a bit of faith on your end and the ability to clearly and accurately communicate your desires with the bench. Something as seemingly trivial as the wrong terminology can result in miscommunication and a break down in the design process. Since custom is non-returnable I would seriously consider if this is the path you wish to choose. I believe that custom is probably very satisfying as you end up with a one of a kind piece that you envisioned and brought to life, however there is definitely a trade off for that experience. I'd just encourage you to go into it with both eyes open and with as much research as you did when you purchased the diamond! Good luck!

 

[athenaworth]

SN Queens might have a bench person who can do this.

 

[CharmyPoo]

SN Queens might have a bench person who can do this.

I have been admiring athenworth's SN Queen photos. I made a last min trip to LA and stopped by today. The ladies there are great and the workmanship is delightful. I would consider them on your list.

 

[yssie]

Hi Charmypoo! You caught me. Appraisal value isn't my #1 priority, (her happiness is), but on the flip side, I've spent a lot of time reading and researching. I was using the ring appraisal as a benchmark to judge quality of the ring and how good a job I did to make it happen (how much is the ring worth vs how much I paid for it?). Our diamond was valued at +30% more than what I paid, using a "middle of the road" formula (Is this normal for most diamonds that are appraised?), and I wanted to do what I could so the setting would translate again to a higher value than what I paid, using honest methonds (ie quality materials and superior craftsmanship/detailing). If, like SarahBear said, the setting only adds the same value to the overall appraisal as what I end up paying, then im fine with that too. In the end I think this was caused by a little bit of A: Me not knowing what the heck i'm talking about when it comes to settings (I spent all my time focusing on diamond education), and a whole lot of B: wanting, like so many, to feel like id gotten a great value/deal! lol

SarahBear: I DO wish I had better pics! We snapped those casually while at a "whole sale" location when we first started our search. Turns out she liked that style/setting more than almost anything else she saw. I think, due to my lack of knowledge on the subject, I perceived "hand forged" not only to be unique and rare, which I am attracted to, but also superior to all other settings out there. I realize now that was misguided, and that sometimes cast is a better option, depending on the project.

Yssie: I You and SarahBear have uncovered our biggest issue...Picky + don't know exactly what we want!! I am pickier. I had a vision of a high quality, exquisite heirloom. She is overall very particular with the major details, but has no idea/could go with the flow with the minuscule stuff. I would like to give SingleStone the pertinent details and tell them we want something unique and stunning, then give them creative control from there and see what happens.

Question 1: I know SS deals a lot with antique diamonds. Do they have the ability to obtain high grade sidestones/melee that isnt?

Question 2: If I had a choice I would probably go with a white gold setting so I can dump more money into labor and accent stones. Can I achieve the same level of craftsmanship and detailing using white gold vs platinum or is platinum vital for this?

All the best! Hope everyone enjoys their weekend!

Don't fall into this trap. A diamond sells for what it is worth in that particular market. If you had paid 30% more for the stone then you would have overpaid by 30%. Should you ever damage or lose your stone, your insurance company is either going to replace it with a stone of like kind and quality from their supplier, or they will offer to cut you a check for the amount that they could replace the stone for. This has nothing to do with the amount that you insure the stone for. In theory you could have an appraisal saying that your stone is $100,000 but if you paid $20,000 for it, then expect your insurance company to be able to do the same, in the end you just pay inflated premiums for an inflated appraisal. The same goes for a setting. I think that some here insure for cost plus 10%, but most insure for cost and keep an eye on diamond prices...if they rise, they adjust, if they fall, they adjust the other way.

I also agree with the others that have stated that you shouldn't get caught up in which method is used to create your dream ring. Some methods are better for specific styles than other. I once assumed that hand forging was a superior form of manufacture until I spend some time on these boards and witnessed others experiences with each. If you choose a great bench, they will be able to tell you which form or manufacture is best suited for your style. You are paying for their expertise so I would trust them...if you don't, then it would serve you well to find a new bench. I would also just caution that custom can be a very stressful experience even for the most seasoned of PSers. It will take a bit of faith on your end and the ability to clearly and accurately communicate your desires with the bench. Something as seemingly trivial as the wrong terminology can result in miscommunication and a break down in the design process. Since custom is non-returnable I would seriously consider if this is the path you wish to choose. I believe that custom is probably very satisfying as you end up with a one of a kind piece that you envisioned and brought to life, however there is definitely a trade off for that experience. I'd just encourage you to go into it with both eyes open and with as much research as you did when you purchased the diamond! Good luck!

Ditto.

I'm one of those "seasoned PSers". It was a style VC was unfamiliar with, we didn't hit it off in terms of communication and there were lots of assumptions on both sides, and he was uncomfortable "letting me into" his process - and I was unhappy with the result. I'm currently doing a custom project with RDG and it's been an absolutely wonderful experience... once you find the right vendor everything else will fall into place

 

[CharmyPoo]

Yssie - RDG is super awesome. I wish he was in North America with us. Amazing ideas, great communicator, super talent ... everything we can ask for.

luv2lift - Appraisals really don't say too much these days. I don't even know who pays the prices that appraisals come back as. My appraisals end up at a min double of what I paid and sometimes even more.

On to the ring design, I love the profile shot and think it is really pretty, delicate and feminine. I wouldn't change a thing. On the other hand, the halo ring photos leave much to be desired for me although the photos aren't really clear.

When you custom make, I would make sure you ask that the ring is set much lower in the halo (you will see many examples on PS for a diamond set right in the halo -- just look for any of VC's halos). I think the diamonds around the halo are far too big so I would go with much smaller melee to keep with the refinement of the gallery and a more delicate vintage feel.

The shank as it stands looks unrefined with a sharp V versus a more swoopy look. I would consider a more gradual change.

Check out these two gorgeous rings for shank ideas:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-doron-isaak-reset-is-here.158714/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-doron-isaak-reset-is-here.158714/[/URL]
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-5-yr-anniversary-upgrade-2-52-emerald-cut-diamond.187820/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-5-yr-anniversary-upgrade-2-52-emerald-cut-diamond.187820/[/URL]

 

[luv2lift]

Hi All!
Hope everyone had an enjoyable weekend,

We looked at all the ring offerings of 23rd street, Simon G, Natalie K, Kirk K, and Beverly K. She wasn't really drawn to any of them. Even with some vintage elements added, the modern designs didn't do it for her. Looks like RDG does some fantastic work, but like VC, specializes in more modern designs.

She liked violet02's OEC from SS:
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/engaged.75014/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/engaged.75014/[/URL]

Charmypoo: Great job! She thought Athenaworth's ring was pretty, and was completely blown away by Asscher girls 5 year ring. As you said, she def prefers the more swoopy shank. When she saw the delicate vintage detailing on the sides of SB's setting, you could tell it affected her. I think she said its the most beautiful she has seen.

After looking at Sebastian's site, she liked several settings, including this one:
http://sebastienbarier.com/pages/rings4.php

I think it comes down to SS or SB, but i'm a little concerned with combining the modern cut stone with the vintage setting. Princess is what she favors the most, but that delicate vintage detailing with the elegant shank is the type of setting that calls to her....has anyone combined both and pulled it off???

For that kind of detailing, I am OK choosing platinum if they couldn't do it in white gold. I am also completely fine with its manufacturing process. Does anyone know how SS compares to SB as far as pricing goes?

Asscher girl do you mind chiming in on what I should expect to pay for a setting like that if its not too much to ask?

Thanks ladies!

 

[backwardsandinheels]

You could find out about Sebastien Barier through 66mint in SF or Craig Coyne 's website. Would your girl consider a square step cut or Asscher to compliment the vintage settings she likes so well? SS will give you a quote, just ask.