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H& A question

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makisupa

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 4, 2002
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13
I looked at a diamond yesterday at a jeweler and asked to see it under an H&A scope. It is graded AGS0/ HCA 1.1. He brings me out a viwer (no taller than 6 inches). When I looked at the diamond I did see very good hearts and arrows. Two things struck me though that I need to ask about.

1. When looking at the arrows, I did not see any space between the hearts and the v (I'm assuming that is the arrow from the reverse side). I could definitely seperate the heart from the v but they seemed to slightly overlap rather than produce a small space btwn. them.

2. The color produced from the scope included black, white, and pink. From what I've learned from many the wonderful internet sites out there including this one, I'm supposed to focus on darker reds and pink means that light is escaping and that the facets are acting as windows rather than mirrors (?). Could this possibly be due to the type of scope? The ones I see pictured online look to be a foot tall and this was a small cheep plastic one. The diamond did sit on a black base and the tube I viewed it on was pink so maybe this had anything to do with it?

W/o having a light test done on it I want to make sure its brilliance is as good as possible.

Should I still consider this diamond for the reasons above?
 

student

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
167
1) Is what you saw different from the images used as examples on this site?

2) I think you're confusin the idealscope with the H&A viewer.

(I am a consumer not an expert.)
 

StevL

Brilliant_Rock
Trade
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
598
Do not grade the reds and pinks in this type of viewer. It has little to no value of the actual opitcal grade as seen in the firescope.
 

LesleyH

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Aug 28, 2000
Messages
506
Student - it sounds like you are right. Makisupa, they were probably showing you the diamond using an idealscope which measures light leakage.

The Hearts and Arrows viewer should show you images like this one taken of an A CUT ABOVE.

LesleyH
www.whiteflash.com

ha_AGS-3533504.jpg
 

student

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
167
Whereas the idealscope image for that diamond MIGHT look something like this:

IDSCOPE-MYDIAMOND.jpg
 

makisupa

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 4, 2002
Messages
13
Thanks LeslieH. You are probably right. I still was able to confirm the symmetry of the stone although I won't be able to confirm the exact brilliance given the light color. What I saw through the scope was similar to your picture only brighter.

Either way, I still think it looks good and there is only so much I can check (or have the time to). I just feel like I'm always missing something when I check a stone. It has a great brilliance to my eye and compared to other stones so that may simply be what I'll go by.

Thanks again for all your help everyone. This web forum has been a great tool indead when searching for the perfect diamond. My confidence is much higher now in selecting the right stone.

I think I'm going to propose on a cruise the two of us are going on in a couple of weeks. I guess I'd better go get that stone!

makisupa
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
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Mar 28, 2001
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6,272
Hi Maki,

I know exactly what you are speaking of and can give you a little insight into how this may affect the stones appearance in comparison other super-ideals.

Attached below is a diamond we recently finished scanning in and note how close the hearts are to the V beneath it.

Now ... listen carefully. The space between the heart and the chevron beneath it is caused by the length of the lower girdle facets. Diamonds with shorter lower girdle facets will leave very little space between the heart and the chevron AND will also give you an idea whether the presence of black or not will appear in the face up position under the LightScope/IdealScope at the arrow shafts. I would also be willing to bet Maki that the arrows appeared rather bold as this is a feature of H&A stones with narrow spaces between the hearts and chevron.

I would post you a link to the diamond for educational reasons however I want to be careful not to break any guidelines for posting links to diamonds here on pricescope so if you would like to see the other results of the diamond in question you can email me.

My observations and that of many of my clients is that when the presence of these blacks (which I refer to as hot spots, since they are sources of intense light reflections within the diamond) are there, this contributes to more intense scintillation within the diamond and is a positive factor. If those hot spots are missing scintillation can be either lost or counter balanced by the presence of dark reds under the table and throughout most of the stone. With the instrument we use (LightScope) I can see the contrast of the dark/light reds with a greater degree than any other viewer on the market.

Steve is right on in what he says also. An H&A viewer, while giving some information about light return does not tell the whole story.

Hope that helps.

Rhino

129gvs1hrts.jpg
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Here is the H&A images and LightScope picture of that particular stone. Note the bold arrows in the arrows pic and the absence of black at the arrows shafts in the LightScope picture (to the right). The LightScope picture also reveals pale reds under the table as opposed to the darker reds around the crown facets. Pale reds are indicative of some light return that is mixed with leakage. The emphasis on a diamond like this (which I'm taking an educated guess is similar to the stone you viewed) is FIRE. Broad bold flashes of colored light in direct light conditions is what typifies a diamond of this caliber and is an absolutely beautiful rock.

I would not however presume that this is *identical* to the stone you looked at though. Best bet is to have it appraised by someone who knows these kind of things of which I speak.

Jonathan

129gvs1pics.jpg
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
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Messages
6,272
Pretty good guess huh Leonid? Now watch it be totally different. :razz:
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
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Joined
Mar 28, 2001
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6,272
Another positive aspect I would note about the above stone is it's beauty in soft or diffuse light conditions. The 3 dimensional symmetry is more easily observable with the human eye and is very pleasing. This is an aspect of contrast and brilliancy I would include in a definition of the brilliancy/contrast issue. I'm currently waiting to speak with Gary further about his interpretation of the issue though.

Leonid, just for clarification. Would you prefer that I post the images in the manner I have instead of posting a link to the stone or is it ok to post a link if it is in the interest of education? Just makin sure. Whichever you like is fine with me.

Peace,
Rhino
 

student

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
167
Just about...give me a couple of days! Well, I suppose I shouldn't say MY stone because it will be for my fiancee-to-be!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Here's an interesting set of pictures of 2 different types of super ideals side by side.

Note the hearts in the bottom picture have more of that seperation between the heart and the chevron beneath it. Also note the presence of the blacks at between the arrow shafts. Also note the presence of many darker reds in the bottom stone. This is an example of 2 different kinds of super ideals currently available on the market. Both have factors contributing to their overall beauty. While both of these diamonds will appear beautiful in all light conditions, the bottom one I would say has more of an advantage in direct light conditions and has insane scintillation, fire and overall brilliancy in terms of intense light return while the top stone has more of an advantage in softer light conditions. Let me reemphasize that both look great in all light conditions though as both represent top 1% diamonds in the world.

Hope that helps.

Ex/Ex,
Rhino

2superideals.jpg
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Hey... at least you get to keep the receipt right student? ;-) hehe

Rhino
 
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