Greenish Blue Sapphire for Engagement Jewelry

[tankyu]

Hello all (who are reading),

Short version: I'm on the hunt for a round cut, eye clean, greenish blue sapphire with a face up size between 5.5 and 7.5mm.



Long version: About a month ago my SO made the mistake of telling me that he was starting to put away some money for an engagement "something," and being the research-driven, compulsive, and impatient person that I am, I immediately started gathering data.

We're both on the same page about not wanting to go the traditional diamond route, so only conrundum seemed like an option because of the everyday wear, and I like the blue family better than the red, so we're in agreement about the variety of stone at least. We both also like the round cuts, me because I never wanted a stone with points and since I've found this forum, I've learned all about bowties and half-and-half shadowing, so ovals are out; and him because he just thinks they look the nicest. But we differ on color.

He really like the deep, tradition, "Ceylon" blue, with possibly a bit purple, but I still think that's a bit too traditional. From my looking, I'm leaning much more towards the colors you see in Montana sapphire.

I've also totally picked out my own setting, too. I'm in research, and plan to be for the foreseeable future, so I spend a lot of time putting on and taking off lab gloves, so I feel like a necklace would just be more practical than a ring. I love the fact that a bezel setting protects the stone, but from what I've seen, the tend to darken stones quite a bit and don't let a ton of light in. The Brian Gavin Barbara pendant seems perfect.



I've looked through all the offerings at Gemfix, and the ones in the color family that I like all seem to have too much of a grey cast to them. The ones Blazengems in the size I'd like all seem to be too dark. There are a couple from Earth's Treasury that I'm keeping an eye on, but I don't know if they're quite perfect.

So I'm reaching out to you experts. Does anyone know of a vendor who might have something, or even rough that might become something, that checks these boxes? For referance, I LOVE the color of this stone from Precision Gems, I just wish with a small part of my heart that it wasn't heat treated.



Thanks for your time

 

[colorluvr]

I mostly lurk these days, but just signed on and saw your post.

Are you looking for something like this? It is heated however.

http://www.mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=7919

 

[PieAreSquared]

Congratulations on your upcoming engagement. I think an engagement necklace is very unique!

Question for you, when you say:
"From my looking, I'm leaning much more towards the colors you see in Montana sapphire."
Do you mean looking online, or in person? Specifically, what Montana sapphire colors appeal to you?

You also mention: "the ones in the color family that I like all seem to have too much of a grey cast to them."
Be glad you can see that from the pictures, you may have just saved yourself from shipping and return shipping costs!
Montana sapphires are grey. Period. Even with the more true-blue shades you are not going to find that rich blue-velvet Ceylon blue in a Montana. Greenish-blue Montana sapphires will also have a lot of grey mixed in with that blue/green. It is just how they are.

It is also good to keep in mind that all stones are heated. Some get it all inside the earth, some get more inside a kiln.

 

[digdeep]

I mostly lurk these days, but just signed on and saw your post.

Are you looking for something like this? It is heated however.

http://www.mastercutgems.com/index.php?page=viewgem&id=7919

I love this sapphire...........a unique color!

 

[iLander]

I've never been disappointed with a Precision Gem stone. It would be worth it to ask him for a video, if you're considering that one.

 

[tankyu]

Thanks for the replies! On the heating, I know that gems are heat and pressure, so just heating really isn't a deal breaker for me. I just have to get over it as seeing it as a way to make "inferior" gems better. As many people have said in many threads, it doesn't do anything to the underlying crystal structure, so it's not the the gem is any more or less fragile, it just affects the color. I just have to get over that mindset.

Colorluvr that stone was (I don't know if it had already been sold before you posted that picture, but it certainly is now) gorgeous, but a bit greener than what I'm hunting for. Somebody defintely appreciated it, though. Also, slightly off topic, but I was actually wonder about the faceting that I'm seeing on the Mastercut Gems gems. It seems like the cutting is somehow softer? That's not the right word, but in the picture's I've seen of many of the stones on the website and when looking through other forum posts, the cuts just don't seem to be as sharp.

For example this zircon, versus the Precision Cut gem above:


The gem just looks kind of fuzzy, or watery. I obviously have no experience with the cutting from this vendor in real life, and I was just wondering if that was just something to do with the photography, or if it's just a different, softer style in person.

PieAreSquared I've only looked online so far. From what I've read in the PS forums so far, it just seems like there's a huge mark-up on stones from brick and mortar stores that in no way corresponds to better quality, and in most cases, the stones don't measure up to the ones offered by the PS recommended vendors. So this far, I've only been looking that their stuff online. I guess it would be a good idea to look at some things in person so I can learn to recognize extinction and windows and whatnot in real life, as opposed to just reading all the helpful posts about them.

As for the Montana sapphires specifically, I really have no attachment to that origin. Those mines just seemed to produce the most green-y, pastel-y stones that I've really liked so far. But the Precision stone I've been eying (above) is from Nigeria, and I've seen some really beautiful, if a tad too dark, stones from Australia. I'm really just not looking for one of the classic "Ceylon" colored ones, and I think I've read the ones from Burma and certain regions usually have a big premium on their price because of the origin.

But I really appreciate the heads-up on the grey cast! I didn't realize that that was a feature of all Montana sapphires. That's definitely a bummer. It seems like they wouldn't be a good option after all. I thought that maybe the ones from Gemfix had just been sort of picked over, and the ones that were left all had some grey. There was one on Earth's Treasury that I really liked, but I think a bit too silky, that didn't appear to have nearly as much grey. Is that just down to better photography?



I'm really glad to hear about good experiences with Precision Gem, iLander, I've been reading many, many vendor reviews on this forum.

I guess I'm just feeling a bit down about the current selection. I've been reading the Somebody's Gotta Buy This thread, and it just seems like any stone that's really worth having is snapped up by the experts and people in the loop before they're really ever seen by most people. I guess I should get on some vendor email lists. Anything else you guys would recommend?

Sorry for the long-windedness, I just feel like I have SO MUCH to learn! Thanks for all the help so far.

 

[PieAreSquared]

Montanas will look the least grey (in my experience) in daylight. The grey is most apparent under artificial lighting.

Chain (mall) retail jewelery stores carry pretty much the same low, commercial-grade stuff, which won't give you a good idea of what a nice sapphire should look like.
Do you live near a fairly large city where you could attend some gem shows, just to look?
You will be able to see all sorts of stones, varying in quality from low to high. Just go to look, buying can be risky unless you know what you are looking at and who you are dealing with.
After seeing the variety, you might find you want a completely different color of sapphire, they come in nearly every color, in addition to blue.
Gem Faire and Intergem come to mind, but you could google for others...

 

[swissmiss]

Also, slightly off topic, but I was actually wonder about the faceting that I'm seeing on the Mastercut Gems gems. It seems like the cutting is somehow softer? That's not the right word, but in the picture's I've seen of many of the stones on the website and when looking through other forum posts, the cuts just don't seem to be as sharp.

For example this zircon, versus the Precision Cut gem above:


The gem just looks kind of fuzzy, or watery. I obviously have no experience with the cutting from this vendor in real life, and I was just wondering if that was just something to do with the photography, or if it's just a different, softer style in person.

Quick note: Zircon features strong double refraction, and as such, can look fuzzy, especially in photos. Additionally, green-colored zircon is slightly radioactive (don't know if the one you pictured actually has green tones to it or not, but thought I would mention it in case), which can give a more "muted" look to the stone.

 

[swissmiss]

Montanas will look the least grey (in my experience) in daylight. The grey is most apparent under artificial lighting.

Chain (mall) retail jewelery stores carry pretty much the same low, commercial-grade stuff, which won't give you a good idea of what a nice sapphire should look like.
Do you live near a fairly large city where you could attend some gem shows, just to look?
You will be able to see all sorts of stones, varying in quality from low to high. Just go to look, buying can be risky unless you know what you are looking at and who you are dealing with.
After seeing the variety, you might find you want a completely different color of sapphire, they come in nearly every color, in addition to blue.
Gem Faire and Intergem come to mind, but you could google for others...

+1

 

[GregS]

Are you open to buying rough and having a stone cut? As soon as I saw blue green sapphire a name immediately came to mind. But they sell rough.

 

[tankyu]

As this would be "my" very first colored stone purchase, I just don't know if I have the confidence to have rough custom cut. I just have no way of knowing what color it will turn out to be in the finished product, which makes me nervous.

In the interest of learning more about quality, what do you guys think of the sapphires posted so far in terms of the color and cut? Especially the Precision Gem one? It seems like the middle of that stone is somewhat hazy? I can't tell if it's windowed or not.

 

[picante27]

You may want to consider contacting Jeff White. He cut a beautiful blue green sapphire for me a month ago and may have more of the rough.

 

[GregS]

You may want to consider contacting Jeff White. He cut a beautiful blue green sapphire for me a month ago and may have more of the rough.

This rough was purchased from the dealer I was going to refer the OP to. That's a great looking stone.

 

[tankyu]

You may want to consider contacting Jeff White. He cut a beautiful blue green sapphire for me a month ago and may have more of the rough.

Wow, picante27, that is a GORGEOUS looking stone. That would be really excellent rough to get another stone from, if the quality is anywhere near years, but I worry that a custom project might not be within the budget. Definitely something to keep in mind though!

I went back through your posts finding the stone and the finished ring (which is totally awesome and unique), but do you mind sharing a couple more details about clarity and if you see a lot of change from different light sources? Does it black out or look grey in some conditions? If not cost prohibitive, this seems like a really great option.

 

[Lovinggems]

Jeff also had this Montana sapphire in his Gem scoop newsletter, was there too much green in it for you?

 

[picante27]

You may want to consider contacting Jeff White. He cut a beautiful blue green sapphire for me a month ago and may have more of the rough.

Wow, picante27, that is a GORGEOUS looking stone. That would be really excellent rough to get another stone from, if the quality is anywhere near years, but I worry that a custom project might not be within the budget. Definitely something to keep in mind though!

I went back through your posts finding the stone and the finished ring (which is totally awesome and unique), but do you mind sharing a couple more details about clarity and if you see a lot of change from different light sources? Does it black out or look grey in some conditions? If not cost prohibitive, this seems like a really great option.

Is be happy to share more details. I had the ring and sapphire appraised a few weeks ago. The clarity is near flawless. There is one small feather only visible under magnification. The color is equal parts blue and green, very saturated. It has no gray tint to it at all.

It does go dark under certain lighting conditions. It never losses the bright teal flashes of color, even when it looks darker. From what i understand, this is a typical characteristic of a sapphire. There are lots of experts on here, correct me if I'm wrong about that. I think it is at its best in natural light, it just glows. But i find it beautiful under all lighting conditions. Here it is indoors and looking dark. Pardon the dust on the stone, i had been handling it a lot.

 

[picante27]

Sorry for my typos, I'm on my phone at the moment. That Montana Jeff has right now is also very pretty! If i didn't already have one, I would certainly be tempted by it!

 

[tankyu]

PieAreSquared I somehow missed the second half of your response a couple days ago. It turns out that there will be a gem show in Baltimore next month! So excellent tip. And now I'm going to have to look for a couple others. That would be so exciting to attend!

And thanks for the interesting facts about the zircon, swissmiss. I guess I didn't pick the right stone to illustrate what I meant, but I can already pick the "Dana stones" out in the Somebody's Gotta Buy This thread, so there is definitely something unique in the way he cuts his stone.

Lovinggems, the post about there being a Montana sapphire in that Gem Scoop email was the thing that made me think I really needed to be on some vendor's listservs. It's a bit light and green but BEAUTIFULLY cut.

Thanks so much for the extra details, picante27. I'll have to ask my SO's opinion on the darkness, but I think I will probably end up emailing Jeff White anyway, and maybe he has some rough that's maybe a fraction of a unit (I don't know the units for measuring this sort of thing in stones...) lighter. I just can't get over how gorgeous that stone is, and hearing what great clarity it has makes it even better!

I think I will ask for some video on the Precision Gem sapphire, but the hazy center gives me pause already and the fact that it seems to have been floating around for some time so far without being snapped up by one of you guys just makes me think there's probably something wrong with it. It is the perfect color, though.

Once again, thank you all so much for your help! I'm so glad I found this forum. At first a timeline of six months to find a stone seemed ENDLESS, but once you start to learn about what to look for in actual high quality stones, it doesn't seem like that long at all...

 

[minousbijoux]

I believe the Jeff White sapphire that Picante has is from a relatively new find coming out of Africa (I want to say Nigeria, but I'm so forgetful). Like Greg, I contacted the rough dealer about purchasing some. You are correct in that it would not be cheap - not as expensive as a traditional blue but up there with a high quality Montana, if that helps.

 

[picante27]

That's correct, it's a new find from the Taraba State of Nigeria. I would say the price is close to that of Montana sapphires. When I was shopping around, all the Montanas were very expensive because I required a fairly large size to fit my ring. The color and size (8mm)I wanted is not as common in Montanas, so they were very pricey. The one Jeff cut for me is 2.54 carat and cost significantly less than the other pieces I was considering. Again, that may be due to the sizes I was looking at. I actually saved a good bit by getting the Nigerian stone

 

[VirginiaZee]

In the interest of learning more about quality, what do you guys think of the sapphires posted so far in terms of the color and cut? Especially the Precision Gem one? It seems like the middle of that stone is somewhat hazy? I can't tell if it's windowed or not.

I *think* that the hazy middle is just glare from the table. It doesn't look like there's a window (you can't see clear through the center of the stone), plus Gene's cutting is very nice. Perhaps this one is still here since everyone has different tastes in colors, and some might prefer a more "diamond" cut.

 

[PieAreSquared]

..... the fact that it seems to have been floating around for some time so far without being snapped up by one of you guys just makes me think there's probably something wrong with it. "

This is a common misconception that does not necessarily ring true with colored stones! Due to the wide variety of colored gems and personal tastes, some colors will simply not appeal to all people.
I don't know anything about that particular stone, but something to keep in mind, unlike the inventory of many businesses, gemstones:
* Don't have an expiration date or go stale.
* Don't go out of style.
* Don't lose value the longer they sit, often the opposite is true as sources dry up and market prices skyrocket.

I imagine for dealers that are in business for the long haul, and not just to make a quick buck, "sitting on the inventory" would not be a bad thing at all.

Anyway...Go to the Baltimore gem show, ask a lot questions, and have fun!

 

[tankyu]

Picante27 and minousbijoux, both the Jeff White and Gene Flanigan stones appear to be out of a relatively new mine in Mambilla, in the Taraba State of Nigeria, which is, incidentally, where the stone for sfilly's (https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/engaged-light-blue-sapphire-ring.206073/) engagement ring came from. From the research I've done on the mine in the past day or so, it looks like it's turning out some very nice stone, albeit sporadically.

My SO thought the Jeff White stone was a bit too dark, which I can understand, especially with a bezel setting. I'd still like to email Mr. White and ask if he has any other rough that might cut a bit lighter. I just can't get over the phenomenal teal!


But now I've run into my next problem. I've had two email drafts sitting open for a day now, and just don't know what to say!

I'd love to ask Mr. Flanigan for more pictures in different lights of his already cut Nigerian sapphire, and a video if possible, but I know that many vendors just don't have time for that (gemfix comes to mind) and I just can't bring myself to "bother" him.


I don't mean to be gauche, but the budget for the stone is about $4-5k, though I'd really like to keep it under $3k, even though I'm not even the one footing the bill! I'm not looking for a huge stone, definitely less than 8mm face-up, but do you guys think that's a large enough budget to pursue the custom cut any further?

Thanks VirginiaZee and PieAreSquared for helping assuage my fears about the already cut gem going unsold for so long, by the way. A year just seems extraordinarily long for a well-cut, well-priced stone of a nice color on this forum, so I thought it maybe didn't check all the boxes.

 

[picante27]

Hey tankyu,
I think you will absolutely find a perfect sapphire with the budget you mentioned. My budget was 3k to 5k and I came in on the lower end of that. I would absolutely ask for more pics and a video of the stone you are looking at. The worst that can happen is they say no. When I was searching for a sapphire, I sent inquiries to maybe a dozen vendors. Most of whom I found through the recommended vendor list on this forum. Some got back to me, some didn't. A few said no or that the project wasn't worth their time Several sent me additional pics of stones I was looking at from their websites. So, just send your emails...ask away! I will also add that Jeff is great with communication. Just ask if he has any lighter colored rough available.

I love the pendant you picked out, BTW . I'm thinking of doing something sorta kinda similar but with a pear cut purple garnet in platinum

 

[urseberry]

Jean of Top Notch Faceting has been cutting some beautiful Nigerian sapphires lately, too. He has a very unique style and doesn't cut rounds as far as I've noticed, but I thought I'd post one here to see if it is of interest to you or anyone who is following along. The best way to see his work is on Instagram. This one is pretty blue, but I've seen some greener ones in his feed also.



Edited for typos.

 

[GliderPoss]

Don't forget to look at Australian sapphires too! Lots of greeny-blue ones here especially from the New England area. I also find them a little cheaper too.

 

[chrono]

I personally prefer a stone that doesn't become too dark most of the time, preferring to see the body colour most of the time, rather than just flashes of the body colour. Setting a dark stone typically darkens it further and a bezel setting will darken it even more. Gene's photography is one of the most accurate amongst the preferred vendors on PS, moreso than Jeff's. For me, a video is unnecessary because of that. Jeff's pricing is also almost always more expensive than Gene's.

 

[minousbijoux]

I personally prefer a stone that doesn't become too dark most of the time, preferring to see the body colour most of the time, rather than just flashes of the body colour. Setting a dark stone typically darkens it further and a bezel setting will darken it even more. Gene's photography is one of the most accurate amongst the preferred vendors on PS, moreso than Jeff's. For me, a video is unnecessary because of that. Jeff's pricing is also almost always more expensive than Gene's.

From my experience, I find their photos pretty similar. Jeff's photos are as accurate imo as Gene's, as they both take their photos with direct light shining on the stone so the face of the stone is lit up. The light shining directly on the stone shows the stone to its best advantage for each vendor, and when not in similar lighting, the stones can look quite different and often, darker.

ETA: I agree though, that darkening is a factor that should be taken into consideration. I also agree that there are some beautiful Australian sapphires that may be exactly what you want (if you want to see examples of some beautiful Aussie stones, look at the ones cut by AussieJames on his threads here on PS).

 

[chrono]

Minou,
Interesting that our experience is different. I found that in terms of hue, Gene's photography is accurate whereas Jeff's pictures tend not to show a secondary colour that I see in person, and from reading older posts, I know I am not the only one to experience this.

 

[picante27]

I just wanted to say that Jeff provided a video of the sapphire in natural, fluorescent, and incandescent lighting prior to my purchase. I felt it was very accurate.