Got my new diamond and I think it has flourescence?

[ringbling17]

The stone is gorgeous! Ideal does not mean absolutely perfectly flawless, though. If we all magnified our diamonds that large, we'd all find something! So put the magnifier away! That diamond is beautiful!

Hi ds!
Yes, I know ideal doesn't mean flawless. Lol!!! No diamond would ever be good enough for me if that were the case.
But none of the other diamonds I received from WF (my F's (1.51 VVS2 and two .39 VS1/2) , G (2.03 VS1) , H ( 2.417 VS2) and the two J's I recently returned) had those polish marks. These are actual lines that form a circle so it does kind of bug me.
I know I'm anal but for the amount of money I've spent, I'd rather get a diamond without those polish marks if possible. The problem is the WF inventory is low. They have no diamonds in the size I want. Even the two J's got sold that I returned and the 3.54 I as well. So this may be my Mrs. Right Now diamond until they get some more stock. I feel like Valmanin.
But yes, the diamond is absolutely gorgeous and I love the setting as well.
I'm very happy with it. It's white compared to the J and from the sides.

 

[MissGotRocks]

I do agree that these images are highly magnified and show things that normal viewing won't show but unseeing what has been seen is hard to do. That's why I don't spend a lot of time with a loupe - ha!

WF often knows of some stones coming down their pipeline so you might ask if there is anything in your size/color/clarity range that is on the horizon. The stone does look beautiful but if these things bother you greatly, it might be best to ask them about other availability. I do like the I better than the J that you returned just from a standpoint of color alone.

 

[ringbling17]

I do agree that these images are highly magnified and show things that normal viewing won't show but unseeing what has been seen is hard to do. That's why I don't spend a lot of time with a loupe - ha!

WF often knows of some stones coming down their pipeline so you might ask if there is anything in your size/color/clarity range that is on the horizon. The stone does look beautiful but if these things bother you greatly, it might be best to ask them about other availability. I do like the I better than the J that you returned just from a standpoint of color alone.

Hi MGR!
These photos were taken with my phone not using a loupe. Usually polish lines can only be seen with a microscope I thought, so I was surprised to find them show up in my grainy iPhone pictures. It wouldn't concern me as much if I had seen polish marks in my previous diamonds, but this is the only one I've ever seen it in and they circle around the pavilion, like drag lines. I wish I didn't have eagle eyes sometimes! But like you said I can't unsee them now!
I just set up my WF account to notify me for new diamonds. Currently they only have a 3.75 J VS2. So I will wait and see!

 

[MissGotRocks]

Hi MGR!
These photos were taken with my phone not using a loupe. Usually polish lines can only be seen with a microscope I thought, so I was surprised to find them show up in my grainy iPhone pictures. It wouldn't concern me as much if I had seen polish marks in my previous diamonds, but this is the only one I've ever seen it in and they circle around the pavilion, like drag lines. I wish I didn't have eagle eyes sometimes! But like you said I can't unsee them now!
I just set up my WF account to notify me for new diamonds. Currently they only have a 3.75 J VS2. So I will wait and see!

Well, I assume you will talk to them tomorrow so we will wait and see what they say. Meanwhile, you do have a lovely diamond to enjoy!

 

[gm89uk]

I find with smartphone macro photos with nowadays megapixels and magnification, it's similar effect to using a loup even if it is grainy. Can you see them with a naked eye? I'd be extremely surprised.

 

[ringbling17]

I find with smartphone macro photos with nowadays megapixels and magnification, it's similar effect to using a loup even if it is grainy. Can you see them with a naked eye? I'd be extremely surprised.

Hi!
No, I can't see them with a naked eye. I guess part of me is thinking that I spent all together over $42+k for this diamond and so I just expect it not have the polish marks. Especially since my other ones didn't.
I don't know, maybe I have too high standards?

If you were spending this much would you be okay with it?

 

[LLJsmom]

Do they have other stones coming in? Not to say the stone isn't beautiful but he graining would just bug me.

 

[ringbling17]

Do they have other stones coming in? Not to say the stone isn't beautiful but he graining would just bug me.

I don't know. They had only a few in this size but all J's. I've been asking them and my sales lady said she doesn't know. Ajunes16 just upgraded her diamond and she happened to find it while she was waiting for the other one she chose to get set, so she got lucky.
I got the 3.082 J and exchanged it for the 3.54 J and exchanged it for this one for the color. I looked and both diamonds sold already. They had a 3.54 I VS2 and that one sold too.
I saw they have a 3.098 H VS2 right now and a 3.76 J VS2. I'd have to pay a lot more for the H (not in my budget unless I return the earrings I just ordered) and I just looked at the video and guess what? I see the same polish lines! I'll post a picture.
The 3.76 J I could get bc it would cost me relatively very little to get it ($1k more I think?) but I think it might be too big. It's 9.97 mm. And again the color would probably bug me although the picture and video of it are spectacular and it's got fatter arrows which I do like.
And I'll also lose money on this setting even though it was cheap, I'll still lose $650 for having it a whole two days! Unless they can fit a new diamond into it.
Below is the 3.098 H VS2. It's listed for $49.5k. It would've been an option but not if it has the grain/polish lines. And I can see them more in the WF picture than I can see in the one I currently have.

 

[Karl_K]

All diamonds have polish lines if you look hard enough.
They are after all polished on a circular wheel using diamond dust.
A little oil can make them stand out more.
Remember diamonds are graded at 10x and very clean.

 

[ringbling17]

All diamonds have polish lines if you look hard enough.
They are after all polished on a circular wheel using diamond dust.
A little oil can make them stand out more.
Remember diamonds are graded at 10x and very clean.

Thanks Karl!

 

[gm89uk]

Hi!
No, I can't see them with a naked eye. I guess part of me is thinking that I spent all together over $42+k for this diamond and so I just expect it not have the polish marks. Especially since my other ones didn't.
I don't know, maybe I have too high standards?

If you were spending this much would you be okay with it?

Honestly yes I'd be fine with it. You have an upgrade policy anyway. They're not surface graining. If you look at a load of GIAXXX AGS000 stones on JA, you can usually spot them

 

[ringbling17]

Honestly yes I'd be fine with it. You have an upgrade policy anyway. They're not surface graining. If you look at a load of GIAXXX AGS000 stones on JA, you can usually spot them

Thanks! I'll have to think about it.
Most people on this website prefer higher color to higher clarity but I'm the opposite. I actually prefer higher clarity. I'm just weird like that. It just sort of bugs me to have a lot of imperfections in a diamond. So that's why even though I can save money with an SI diamond, I've never bought one.
For example, the earrings I just purchased I didn't have to get VS, I could've gotten SI and gone bigger. I also could've purchased from JA or IDJ and saved some money. Especially bc one day I would like to upgrade them, but again, the lower clarity would bother me and not having them superideal cut would also bother me.
I did email WF and ask if maybe it could be polished to remove the polish lines. I'll see what they say.
You're right. I do have an upgrade policy but I just don't want to keep upgrading. I was hoping this diamond would be it.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Ok, I stand corrected, I thought that they reported "slight" and I could have sworn that I had seen it on a report, but no, no, I was wrong. Well enjoy your lovely new stone!
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-di...laboratory-color-grading-of-diamonds-1249.htm The diamond exhibited here (bottom of page) reminds me of what you are seeing in your stone.

Yes, reporting on fluorescence is different between GIA and AGS. Negligible is the term used by AGS for none and faint in GIA terms. Also, AGS observes in a table up direction. There is logic to this approach.
As Karl pointed out, fluoro can be isolated within the stone and also directional. As was already mentioned the images on the page above is an example. It appears the stone Kayla17 also has this property.
The other thing to understand is the wide variation in fluorescence observations that are possible depending on the device used to stimulate the fluoro. On the bottom of the page there is discussion of this important factor that causes some confusion to consumers and trades people alike.
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-di...ion/diamond-fluorescence-good-or-bad-1322.htm

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Yes! Those are the lines. So that's what they are? The diamond seems to have a bad polish job then!
It's noticeable from my camera phone. And I see them in areas near the girdle as well.
I've had other diamonds from WF as well and they've never had polish marks like this.
Also wouldn't AGS notice it and not give the diamond a 0 for polish. I just had the diamond recerted on May 17th, so when they recert, don't they check the diamond all over again?

Hi Kayla17,
My guess is that there may be some graining in the stone that was light enough that it is not called out on the report. Very unlikely these are polish marks, although they can easily be mistaken for them in photos.
The goal of the clarity plot and comments, on both GIA and AGS reports, is to help positively identify the stone and support the clarity grade. It is posible that were the other characteristics not there, for example in a VVS stone, then light graining might be mentioned. Because graining of this nature is transparent, it does not seem to get quite the same level of reporting as other features. We can certainly take another look and re-submit to the lab if necessary.

 

[ringbling17]

Hi Kayla17,
My guess is that there may be some graining in the stone that was light enough that it is not called out on the report. Very unlikely these are polish marks, although they can easily be mistaken for them in photos.
The goal of the clarity plot and comments, on both GIA and AGS reports, is to help positively identify the stone and support the clarity grade. It is posible that were the other characteristics not there, for example in a VVS stone, then light graining might be mentioned. Because graining of this nature is transparent, it does not seem to get quite the same level of reporting as other features. We can certainly take another look and re-submit to the lab if necessary.

Thanks for responding. I contacted Liza about this and I am waiting on her response.

 

[ringbling17]

Yes, reporting on fluorescence is different between GIA and AGS. Negligible is the term used by AGS for none and faint in GIA terms. Also, AGS observes in a table up direction. There is logic to this approach.
As Karl pointed out, fluoro can be isolated within the stone and also directional. As was already mentioned the images on the page above is an example. It appears the stone Kayla17 also has this property.
The other thing to understand is the wide variation in fluorescence observations that are possible depending on the device used to stimulate the fluoro. On the bottom of the page there is discussion of this important factor that causes some confusion to consumers and trades people alike.
https://www.whiteflash.com/about-di...ion/diamond-fluorescence-good-or-bad-1322.htm

Interestingly enough, I just realize that the lines I see seem to follow the pattern of the fluorescent cloud I mentioned earlier. I wonder if that has supposed to do with it as well. Maybe where the grain lines are there is more intense flourescence.
I'll post a picture below. You can see the very bright dot almost in the center and then a cloud around it.

 

[ringbling17]

Here are pictures of the lines. See how they somewhat match up? I honestly wasn't trying to capture them when I took these pictures. I was just trying to take pictures for my SMTB thread but I can see them in almost every picture I take.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I believe Garry Holloway has stated in lengthy discussions we have had on the forum that fluorescence can be contained within an inclusion. This makes sense as many inclusions are other minerals and even other diamonds trapped within the growth structure. It would be interesting to know exactly what the case is of this stone. It is quite intriguing.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

I do see what you are illustrating in the images with regards to the lines. It is important to understand that the images are hugely magnified and that facets can be mirroring in different locations. That said, if it is something that concerns you we should send it back to the lab for re-check.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Just thought I would share some information I gathered on 'graining' by talking to one of the senior graders at AGSL.

There are several types of graining. There is colored graining (brown, green, white), reflective graining, and transparent graining. Transparent graining is only visible from certain directions and is not counted against the clarity grade, so is also not commented. Surface graining can be confused with polish lines, and will be noted on comments. The main visible difference is that a polish line will stop at the facet junction and graining will go across junctions.

When you look at an enlarged image or video of a stone with transparent graining, certain angles may show the lines. Potentially you could have some mirrors of the same grain showing it and others not, depending on their differing angles. You could also have facet reflections showing grain lines with contiguous facet reflections not showing them, which could give the incorrect impression that the lines stopped at the facet junction. Ultimately these calls are made by trained graders doing physical inspection at 10X. And, as is lab practice, larger stones are evaluated by multiple graders, including more senior graders.

I suspect if you specifically look for this across other images and videos you may start noticing it a bit more. And you won’t see anything mentioned on the cert because it is transparent internal graining.

 

[ringbling17]

Hi TL,
Thanks for responding. I am truly fascinated by all this. I should go to GIA school. I'd love to learn more.
So, I'm really bothered by the lines. As some pointed out, I can't see them without enlarged pictures. Although to be honest now that I know where to look, I actually can see the circular lines.
As you pointed out, it might be a reflection and that's why I see so many of them, but to me that's even worse. At least if it was just showing up on one spot I could deal with that, but to have it reflect on a bunch of facets makes it look worse than it really is.
Yesterday and today at I took at least 100 pictures of the diamond and every single picture shows those lines.
As far as keeping the diamond until a similar one shows up. Well, I would do that but what if I see a diamond with the same specs but in the 3.17 to 3.25 range. It would be a little smaller but most likely a little cheaper. But, I wouldn't be able to trade my current diamond in for that one bc I it would cost less. I can't trade in for a diamond of lesser value.
So, I would be stuck with this diamond until something almost exactly like it shows up for equal or more money.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Hi TL,
Thanks for responding. I am truly fascinated by all this. I should go to GIA school. I'd love to learn more.
So, I'm really bothered by the lines. As some pointed out, I can't see them without enlarged pictures. Although to be honest now that I know where to look, I actually can see the circular lines.
As you pointed out, it might be a reflection and that's why I see so many of them, but to me that's even worse. At least if it was just showing up on one spot I could deal with that, but to have it reflect on a bunch of facets makes it look worse than it really is.
Yesterday and today at I took at least 100 pictures of the diamond and every single picture shows those lines.
As far as keeping the diamond until a similar one shows up. Well, I would do that but what if I see a diamond with the same specs but in the 3.17 to 3.25 range. It would be a little smaller but most likely a little cheaper. But, I wouldn't be able to trade my current diamond in for that one bc I it would cost less. I can't trade in for a diamond of lesser value.
So, I would be stuck with this diamond until something almost exactly like it shows up for equal or more money.

Due to your circumstances we would of course be flexible on the terms of your trade-up. We want you to get the stone that checks all your boxes!

 

[ringbling17]

Thank you! I honestly absolutely ❤WF and Liza is a dear for putting up with me!

 

[MissGotRocks]

I am sure they will work with you Kayla to find a suitable solution to your dilemma. Keep us posted about your decision!

 

[bmfang]

Due to your circumstances we would of course be flexible on the terms of your trade-up. We want you to get the stone that checks all your boxes!

Bryan, it's this type of response that exemplifies why WF has almost a cult-like following here on PS. Even though I'm on the look-out for an Octavia for my wife and I love my wife's BGD stones I got for her earlier this year, WF will definitely be on my radar for the next jewellery project. As my wife keeps reminding me, our 10 year wedding anniversary will be around soon enough!

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Bryan, it's this type of response that exemplifies why WF has almost a cult-like following here on PS. Even though I'm on the look-out for an Octavia for my wife and I love my wife's BGD stones I got for her earlier this year, WF will definitely be on my radar for the next jewellery project. As my wife keeps reminding me, our 10 year wedding anniversary will be around soon enough!

Thank you bmfang!

I would like to clarify though, should any parents be concerned, that we are not one of those cults where everyone ends up on CNN.

 

[valeria101]

Nice cloud !
- a gradient of something spread alongside crystal growth ... I wouldn't know what it could be of without really looking [XANES, XRF - off the cuff].

These are some blatant clouds: WWW - chosen for the strikingly sharp pattern tracing low index crystallographic planes. Yours also seems to have a much more rounded - just square'ish shape.


[strain - no expected relation with it]

 

[GearGirly]

I think you would be making the right decision to pick a new stone, I think this stone is no longer mind clean for you and you will never be fully satisfied with it. Definitely work with them until you find your keeper!

 

[ringbling17]

Nice cloud !
- a gradient of something spread alongside crystal growth ... I wouldn't know what it could be of without really looking [XANES, XRF - off the cuff].

These are some blatant clouds: WWW - chosen for the strikingly sharp pattern tracing low index crystallographic planes. Yours also seems to have a much more rounded - just square'ish shape.


[strain - no expected relation with it]

Those clouds are cool. I wonder if they were taken under UV light to have them appear.

 

[ringbling17]

I think you would be making the right decision to pick a new stone, I think this stone is no longer mind clean for you and you will never be fully satisfied with it. Definitely work with them until you find your keeper!

Thanks. Yes, I love everything about this diamond but those lines are definitley a deal breaker for me. For now I'll enjoy her while I have her though. She is a beauty!