** Golconda Diamonds... **

[msop04]

The question came up in another thread about color saturation in diamonds being relative to the size (i.e. a 2 ct MRB will show less color than a 4 ct MRB with the same color grade).

AGBF stated that a D diamond in larger size will show more color than that of a lesser size D diamond... I thought D color was totally clear (absent of all color), so I was confused how an absence of color could show color in a larger diamond. AGBF mentioned the Golconda diamond as an example of this and I was immediately interested ("cue study mode!")

Has anyone ever heard of Golconda diamonds? Here is a link from RWWise...

http://www.rwwise.com/tgd1.html

The four criteria for evaluating any gemstone are: Color, Cut, Clarity and Crystal... Color in diamond refers to relative colorlessness, a diamond graded “D” the highest grade, is a diamond totally without any trace of yellow.

Modern scientific analysis has shown that many famous high quality diamonds such as the Cullinan, Regent (image: at top of page) and The Koh-I-Noor that can be proven to come from the Golconda area are of a specific type of rare, almost pure diamond known as Type IIa. Less than 1% of the world’s diamonds are Type IIa. Scientifically speaking, Type IIa diamonds are diamonds that conduct electricity and contain no significant amount of nitrogen in the diamond crystal lattice.

Nitrogen is the impurity in diamond that imparts the yellowish hue. The lack of yellow makes for a pure colorless (D,E,F) color diamond. For some unknown reason, possibly plastic deformation of the crystal or unknown color centers, some type IIa diamond have yellowish, brownish or even pink body color. Some experts claim that all Golconda diamonds are Type IIa. There is, as far as I know, no scientific evidence to back up that claim.

Science has not explained the exceptionally degree of transparency found in many Golconda stones. Some Type IIa diamonds also exhibit exceptional transparency or crystal.

The visible attribute is variously described as “clear as a mountain stream”, “whiter than white” and “super-d”. Some of these terms are misleading what we are talking about is super-crystal.

If the definition of D color is quite literally "colorless," then how could these Golconda diamonds be graded as D if they exhibit colors? *Is anyone else confused here??*

So.... any of the experts want to way in??

 

[arkieb1]

Again sorry to repeat post from the other thread. People forget about underlying body colour and body hues in diamonds. For years older cuts were labelled "Cape" stones or stones from a particular region in Africa, it is well known in the trade that many people avoid buying stock mined from certain mines in Zimbabwe (look up Zimbabwe green diamonds) because also have this sludgy green yellowy grey body tint to them. You can get one of these stones in a fairly high colour that has that green/yellow body hue.

Stones from different areas have slightly different mineral compositions or traces in them, this can indeed give them different underlying body colours. What this means is you can have a very yellow looking "I" a totally white facing "I" a greyish "I" a pink looking "I" and so on.

I have also seen a white "D", a blue "D" a grey "D" and a green "D." I also had a guy that asked my opinion once on a Blue Nile triple ex stone "G" he wanted to buy but the sales assistance in Asia pulled it out and emailed back that it was yellow green looking. He wondered how that is possible. YES it is possible, not common but not impossible.

 

[AGBF]

Here are a few threads that mention Golconda diamonds from the earlier days of Pricescope:

What Are Golconda Diamonds?...[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-are-golconda-diamonds.33045/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/what-are-golconda-diamonds.33045/[/URL]
Does Anybody Buy D Colors Anymore?...[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/does-anybody-buy-d-colors-anymore.10255/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/does-anybody-buy-d-colors-anymore.10255/[/URL]
Golconda Diamond???...[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/golconda-diamond.23525/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/golconda-diamond.23525/[/URL]

Deb/AGBF

 

[msop04]

Again sorry to repeat post from the other thread. People forget about underlying body colour and body hues in diamonds. For years older cuts were labelled "Cape" stones or stones from a particular region in Africa, it is well known in the trade that many people avoid buying stock mined from certain mines in Zimbabwe (look up Zimbabwe green diamonds) because also have this sludgy green yellowy grey body tint to them. You can get one of these stones in a fairly high colour that has that green/yellow body hue.

Stones from different areas have slightly different mineral compositions or traces in them, this can indeed give them different underlying body colours. What this means is you can have a very yellow looking "I" a totally white facing "I" a greyish "I" a pink looking "I" and so on.

I have also seen a white "D", a blue "D" a grey "D" and a green "D." I also had a guy that asked my opinion once on a Blue Nile triple ex stone "G" he wanted to buy but the sales assistance in Asia pulled it out and emailed back that it was yellow green looking. He wondered how that is possible. YES it is possible, not common but not impossible.

I understand the different body color due to area mined and chemical composition, but the the original question still stands...

"How is a stone graded a color (D, in particular) if that is indeed not the color we see?" ...since stones are graded by human eyes, not machines, hence the descrepancies that can occur between graders.

What would keep the GIA or other grading lab from assigning a "P color" stone as a D with lots of yellow body color? I hope I'm making sense... I kinda feel like a crazy person.

I'm gonna start saying my J is a rare diamond, mined in the Golconda region, with light yellow undertones...

 

[Smith1942]

I think the linked article about Golcondas at the top is a little confusing, yet interesting. I'm still unclear if D diamonds graded by reputable labs like GIA and AGS could be called Golcondas, on the basis of their pure lack of colour rather than geography. That's assuming you don't have a coloured Golconda like the ones discussed in the article.

But I did enjoy the question in one of Deb's links about "Does anyone buy D diamonds anymore?" I do - my stud upgrade a few months ago was a pair of Ds, and a couple of years ago I bought a D diamond from JA and had it set into a pendant. The poster in the thread Deb linked says there's hardly any or no visible difference between D and G, so why spend the money?

I buy Ds not for the rarity value or the re-sale value, but because I believe I really can see a difference. I'm price-sensitive and don't have so much money that I don't need to make the jewellery funds stretch. If I saw no difference between D and F, or D and G, I wouldn't spend the money.

For me, the difference is most clearly seen in dim lighting. In a restaurant, if there are mirrors on the walls, I can see that my e-ring fades into the taupe light (even though it's a super-ideal Hearts on Fire cut) whereas my D diamonds stand out as pinpricks of white light.

When I compare my F diamonds with my Ds, it's interesting. It is not that I can see visible yellow in the F. Rather, that I can see a lack of iciness. When I got my first D diamond, I was blown away by the pure white ice colour. So while my G eternity and my F pendant don't look yellow, they also do not have the Arctic iciness of the D, and to therein lies the difference - for me, anyway.

I also have a Tiffany E pendant, and I do not believe that it has quite the same sharp, cold iciness as my three D diamonds. I truly see a benefit in buying the Ds.

Arkie - in real life I haven't seen any examples of the undertones that you're talking about, but I would love to!

 

[AGBF]

If you want to discuss body color, perhaps this discussion will be of interest to you:

Fascinating Thread on Color, Lack of Color, and Fluorescence (by the experts)...[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/blue-fluorescence-in-diamonds.120497/page-3']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/blue-fluorescence-in-diamonds.120497/page-3[/URL]

Deb/AGBF

 

[Smith1942]

I will read it. Thanks!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Again sorry to repeat post from the other thread. People forget about underlying body colour and body hues in diamonds. For years older cuts were labelled "Cape" stones or stones from a particular region in Africa, it is well known in the trade that many people avoid buying stock mined from certain mines in Zimbabwe (look up Zimbabwe green diamonds) because also have this sludgy green yellowy grey body tint to them. You can get one of these stones in a fairly high colour that has that green/yellow body hue.

Stones from different areas have slightly different mineral compositions or traces in them, this can indeed give them different underlying body colours. What this means is you can have a very yellow looking "I" a totally white facing "I" a greyish "I" a pink looking "I" and so on.

I have also seen a white "D", a blue "D" a grey "D" and a green "D." I also had a guy that asked my opinion once on a Blue Nile triple ex stone "G" he wanted to buy but the sales assistance in Asia pulled it out and emailed back that it was yellow green looking. He wondered how that is possible. YES it is possible, not common but not impossible.

I understand the different body color due to area mined and chemical composition, but the the original question still stands...

"How is a stone graded a color (D, in particular) if that is indeed not the color we see?" ...since stones are graded by human eyes, not machines, hence the descrepancies that can occur between graders.

What would keep the GIA or other grading lab from assigning a "P color" stone as a D with lots of yellow body color? I hope I'm making sense... I kinda feel like a crazy person.

I'm gonna start saying my J is a rare diamond, mined in the Golconda region, with light yellow undertones...

A P color stone is not ever going to be graded D, ever (unless you use a very unreliable lab!). D's are normally going to look like colorless cz's to most of us. I have never seen an undertone in a D, but I assume they exist. But a D color is simply not going to be a yellow stone. You can look through I-J-K stones at James Allen and very easily see that some stones are more yellow and some are more brown. Some can be brownish with a pink undertone like the K AVR that Wintotty had for awhile.

 

[Smith1942]

I've never thought that my three Ds look at all like CZs - maybe they do to others. But to me, they just look like exceptionally beautiful diamonds with a luxe Arctic iciness. Of course, the cuts on each are outstanding - JA Hearts and Arrows with fab ASETs and you probably remember my thread about my D studs and the light performance images from GCAL. Maybe a poorly cut D would look like CZ. But my diamonds sparkle so well that it would truly never have occurred to me to think they look anything like CZ, possibly because they have fire, too.

The James Allen diamond was what made me fall utterly, crazily in love with D stones. So I would always go for the highest colour I could. However, that is only my personal preference.

ETA: I'm still not clear if I can call my three Ds Golcondas! They certainly have a purity that's hard to put into words. Does that qualify them?

 

[msop04]

These are all very interesting threads/articles, and I've enjoyed reading through them!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm trying to educate myself more on this topic... What I gathered from this is that Golconda diamonds are classified as such not by "color" or by region necessarily, but by their unique chemical composition (lack of Nitrogen) and pristine crystal structure (making them uniquely transparent). I noticed that PS member, Richard Sherwood, made this statement:

"These type IIA diamonds manifest two totally different body colors, either colorless to near colorless (usually D-F and less so G-H), or varying shades of brown (and brown-pink)..."

Since he states Golconda diamonds' colors are indeed based on the colors that present, a "D" Golconda will be totally clear and amazingly transparent, as a Golconda H color (though transparent) will have more body color.

Forgive me if I keep asking the same questions... I feel like I'm in Medicinal Chem again and just not quite getting it.

 

[AGBF]

These are all very interesting threads/articles, and I've enjoyed reading through them!

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, as I'm trying to educate myself more on this topic... What I gathered from this is that Golconda diamonds are classified as such not by "color" or by region necessarily, but by their unique chemical composition (lack of Nitrogen) and pristine crystal structure (making them uniquely transparent). I noticed that PS member, Richard Sherwood, made this statement:

"These type IIA diamonds manifest two totally different body colors, either colorless to near colorless (usually D-F and less so G-H), or varying shades of brown (and brown-pink)..."

Since he states Golconda diamonds' colors are indeed based on the colors that present, a "D" Golconda will be totally clear and amazingly transparent, as a Golconda H color (though transparent) will have more body color.

Forgive me if I keep asking the same questions... I feel like I'm in Medicinal Chem again and just not quite getting it.

As someone in one of the other threads said, this is a very esoteric topic and the experts disagree on it. Do not worry. I would not take Richard Sherwood's definition to heart, though. I would simplify it for our purposes. (I have often heard that a Golconda diamond is not the most colorless diamond, but the most transparent diamond.) But please read the posting below.


by DiaGem » 02 Sep 2005 09:19


Guebelin, is the only Labratory which has identifies Golconda''s, and is acceptable by Gem Conoiseurs. But they do not mess with "Golconda Style" or what other (unheard) marketing Idea''''s!!!

There is no such thing a Golconda style, Golconda is the DIAMOND material itself!!!

DiaGem, unlike any other person to Pricescope whom I remember, has had a Golconda diamond in his hands. It was a ten carat Old Mine Cut Golconda certified by the Gubelin Lab.

I believe that if you listen to what he is saying, you will hear that a Golconda is a Golconda. In other words, it comes from the Golconda mines. Its crystal structure may be unique, so may its lack of nitrogen, but only the Gubelin Lab is going to be able to verify its provenance. If I have misunderstood Diagem, I hope he comes forward and says so!

AGBF

 

[arkieb1]

Again sorry to repeat post from the other thread. People forget about underlying body colour and body hues in diamonds. For years older cuts were labelled "Cape" stones or stones from a particular region in Africa, it is well known in the trade that many people avoid buying stock mined from certain mines in Zimbabwe (look up Zimbabwe green diamonds) because also have this sludgy green yellowy grey body tint to them. You can get one of these stones in a fairly high colour that has that green/yellow body hue.

Stones from different areas have slightly different mineral compositions or traces in them, this can indeed give them different underlying body colours. What this means is you can have a very yellow looking "I" a totally white facing "I" a greyish "I" a pink looking "I" and so on.

I have also seen a white "D", a blue "D" a grey "D" and a green "D." I also had a guy that asked my opinion once on a Blue Nile triple ex stone "G" he wanted to buy but the sales assistance in Asia pulled it out and emailed back that it was yellow green looking. He wondered how that is possible. YES it is possible, not common but not impossible.

I understand the different body color due to area mined and chemical composition, but the the original question still stands...

"How is a stone graded a color (D, in particular) if that is indeed not the color we see?" ...since stones are graded by human eyes, not machines, hence the descrepancies that can occur between graders.

What would keep the GIA or other grading lab from assigning a "P color" stone as a D with lots of yellow body color? I hope I'm making sense... I kinda feel like a crazy person.

I'm gonna start saying my J is a rare diamond, mined in the Golconda region, with light yellow undertones...

I just read the thread where Richard talks a bit about body hues and Golconda diamonds. Interestingly enough he mentions some are quite pink to the eye. I guess the point I was making badly is that you can put several stones which have been graded the same GIA colour down on a white matte and they do NOT always look the same and not just because of cut or clarity. Say there were all triple ex similar cuts and all graded "G" a GIA "G" it is indeed possibly to have one that faces or appears to look more like a very yellow/green L or M yet it's a GIA "G" one that faces like a "F", that is to most people white and another that is grey looking.

Again with your D example you can get a stone that is that ice white clear mirror like "D" another that is so white its turning towards that blue colour. I have seen a white Argyle D that in certain lighting conditions had a very slight pink tone to it (yes it wasn't a completely colourless D) and I believe you could get a Zimbabwe or cape mined stone that could be a "D" too (although I don't recall seeing one). I have seen a almost dullish grey looking D which faces white but has a vague sort of tone to it again in some lighting situations. If you flip these stones over against a white background I think you could see all "D" are not created equal. That is why sellers often refer to stones as a high "D" or high "G" a "D" or "G" (standard colour) or a low "D" or "G" or in some cases that weird stone that was graded x but actually faces nothing like it at all.... A "D" in theory should be completely colourless in reality they can be completely different depending upon where they were mined from.

I think in short we need one of the trade people to repost how people grade ie they look under a scope usually at that central area in a diamond and grade the colour which hopefully will help explain how you can get one grading which is technically correct yet a totally difference actually face up or appearance of that stone.

I also find it fascinating btw that in short you can get a "D" or a "G" and so on that don't visually appear the same colourwise yet are classified or graded the same.

 

[msop04]

I think in short we need one of the trade people to repost how people grade ie they look under a scope usually at that central area in a diamond and grade the colour which hopefully will help explain how you can get one grading which is technically correct yet a totally difference actually face up or appearance of that stone.

I also find it fascinating btw that in short you can get a "D" or a "G" and so on that don't visually appear the same colourwise yet are classified or graded the same.

Yes -- this would be great!

 

[msop04]

As someone in one of the other threads said, this is a very esoteric topic and the experts disagree on it. Do not worry. I would not take Richard Sherwood's definition to heart, though. I would simplify it for our purposes. (I have often heard that a Golconda diamond is not the most colorless diamond, but the most transparent diamond.) But please read the posting below.

by DiaGem » 02 Sep 2005 09:19

Guebelin, is the only Labratory which has identifies Golconda''s, and is acceptable by Gem Conoiseurs. But they do not mess with "Golconda Style" or what other (unheard) marketing Idea''''s!!!

There is no such thing a Golconda style, Golconda is the DIAMOND material itself!!!

I believe that if you listen to what he is saying, you will hear that a Golconda is a Golconda. In other words, it comes from the Golconda mines. Its crystal structure may be unique, so may its lack of nitrogen...

AGBF

This is sort of the conclusion I'm coming to...

Such an interesting topic - thanks to everyone for weighing in on it!

 

[Smith1942]

As someone in one of the other threads said, this is a very esoteric topic and the experts disagree on it. Do not worry. I would not take Richard Sherwood's definition to heart, though. I would simplify it for our purposes. (I have often heard that a Golconda diamond is not the most colorless diamond, but the most transparent diamond.) But please read the posting below.

by DiaGem » 02 Sep 2005 09:19

Guebelin, is the only Labratory which has identifies Golconda''s, and is acceptable by Gem Conoiseurs. But they do not mess with "Golconda Style" or what other (unheard) marketing Idea''''s!!!

There is no such thing a Golconda style, Golconda is the DIAMOND material itself!!!

I believe that if you listen to what he is saying, you will hear that a Golconda is a Golconda. In other words, it comes from the Golconda mines. Its crystal structure may be unique, so may its lack of nitrogen...

AGBF

This is sort of the conclusion I'm coming to...

Such an interesting topic - thanks to everyone for weighing in on it!

I've used pink type above to refer to the part of the message I'm responding to, since we already have bold type and blue type.

Deb, here is an article from the New York Times. It says that Golcondas also come from other areas. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/fashion/18iht-acaj-diamonds-18.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Extract:
"The Golconda mines have closed. But other sources of Type II diamonds are still in production. “Today, the exact same stones come from Lesotho and South Africa,” said Marvin Samuels, chief executive of Premier Gem Corp., a New York diamond supplier specializing in large, fine stones."

And also:

"What distinguishes Golcondas and their ilk from the vast majority of diamonds is their Type IIa designation, referring to gems that are devoid of nitrogen. The element, present in Type I diamonds, lends stones a slightly yellowish tinge."

Since my D diamonds are incredibly icy and Arctic in a way I can't quite describe - I feel chilly just looking at them - and since Type IIA are produced in actively-mined areas today, is it possible that mine are Type IIA, if not Golconda? It seems from the article that a Type IIA is where there is no yellow at all, and I'm sure there is none in mine. They have an iciness that even my Tiffany E doesn't. My diamonds are all just above half a carat. Presumably the Type II is found in smaller diamonds too.

 

[Smith1942]

I was going to edit my message above, but time-out!

In this link below, check out the seventh image. This is an AGS D next to a DeBeers diamond listed as "G+" in the DeBeers passport. The G looks really yellow next to the D, yet perfectly white without it. Same happens with my HoF I colour e-ring. It faces up perfectly white, turns to lemon in the presence of the D, then looks perfectly white again once the D is taken away.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/james-allen-d-colour-diamond-bezel-pendant.172118/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/james-allen-d-colour-diamond-bezel-pendant.172118/[/URL]

 

[arkieb1]

Some Canadian mined diamonds have that really icy mirror type look to them too, and I believe (someone can correct me here) they are different again to the Golconda ones.

 

[Smith1942]

Wow, you are a "mine" of information, Arkie! So interesting about Canadian diamonds. You're the Colour Queen, for sure! How do you know so much about diamond colour?

I do feel there's something special about the Ds that I received. From the moment I got the JA stone I could see there was something different about it and I never wanted another colour after that. But as I was explaining on another thread, it isn't that Es and Fs look yellow next to the Ds, what's different is a lack of sharp iciness. So the difference shows up in what isn't there in the two other colourless grades, rather than what is there, if that makes any sense. I don't see yellow in them, but I don't see Arctic ice, either. Not to get too weepy-eyed about my diamond, but the sheer whiteness almost gives it a mystical quality.

Wish another D owner would chime in!

 

[ForteKitty]

I was going to edit my message above, but time-out!

In this link below, check out the seventh image. This is an AGS D next to a DeBeers diamond listed as "G+" in the DeBeers passport. The G looks really yellow next to the D, yet perfectly white without it. Same happens with my HoF I colour e-ring. It faces up perfectly white, turns to lemon in the presence of the D, then looks perfectly white again once the D is taken away.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/james-allen-d-colour-diamond-bezel-pendant.172118/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/james-allen-d-colour-diamond-bezel-pendant.172118/[/URL]

You're supposed to be able to see a difference between a D and a G. Heck, I can even see a difference between my D and E diamonds when they're side by side. It doesn't mean that the D is anything special. It just means that it's a D. The "sharpness" you see may be due to cut.

If you really want to know if it's type IIa, perhaps send it into a lab for educational purposes?

 

[Smith1942]

Actually, Gs look pretty white to me until I put my D diamonds next to them. Also DeBeers says it's G-plus, so I'd expect it to be on the whiter end of G. Since many people say they can tell no difference between the colourless and top of the near-colourless range, I think the degree of difference shown in this photograph is striking, especially taking into account the difficulties of photos.

I'm glad you can also tell your D and E apart - makes me feel less crazy. I say that about my Ds and E, and no one else does, and I think most of the time they don't believe me.

You say my D is nothing special, but you don't know that - it could be. And isn't the point of Ds that they're really special, anyway, due to the extra iciness? Maybe not all are as icy as I find mine, or perhaps I just have good trained eyesight from peering at incredibly small type for a living. What about your D? Did you see the kind of difference between it and your other diamonds that I'm describing with mine?

Nah, I'm not bothered enough to send it off; I'd have to break the setting. The subject just piqued my interest. It's not a bad suggestion, though. Perhaps I'll do it one day!

I thought the NYT article about these diamonds was really interesting.

 

[ForteKitty]

Actually, Gs look pretty white to me until I put my D diamonds next to them. Also DeBeers says it's G-plus, so I'd expect it to be on the whiter end of G. Since many people say they can tell no difference between the colourless and top of the near-colourless range, I think the degree of difference shown in this photograph is striking, especially taking into account the difficulties of photos.

I'm glad you can also tell your D and E apart. I say that about mine, and no one else does, and I think most of the time they don't believe me.

You say my D is nothing special, but you don't know that - it could be. And isn't the point of Ds that they're really special, anyway? What about your D? Did you see the kind of difference between it and your other diamonds that I'm describing with mine?

Nah, I'm not bothered enough to send it off. The subject just piqued my interest.

I believe I said *my* D is nothing special. I didn't comment on yours. I don't think mine is special because I can easily find another one like it. It may cost a lot more, but they're available.

My D rb is super crisp, but it's also extremely well cut, which I believe contributes to the crispness. When my G rb sits next to the D rb, it looks the same, it's just not as white. When I put the D marquise next to the D rb, the marquise looks just as white, but not as bright... which is likely due to cut as well, as marquises will never have the same light return as an rb. My E marquise takes on a blue tint so in some light it appears whiter than the D marquise, but it still doesn't have the same light return as the D rb. The G rb isn't as white as either of the marquises, but it looks much more crisp. So what's the point of all that gibberish? Cut. It matters.

I have a feeling your Ds might be better cut than the Es and Fs, and that might be the difference you see.

Personally, I don't believe that Ds are any more special than other colors. It's whiter, but not necessarily rarer. I feel like it's mostly marketing. Mine is only special to me because it was the first piece of jewelry I bought after graduation, but I never wear it as I'm not into rbs anymore.

 

[arkieb1]

Wow, you are a "mine" of information, Arkie! So interesting about Canadian diamonds. You're the Colour Queen, for sure! How do you know so much about diamond colour?

I do feel there's something special about the Ds that I received. From the moment I got the JA stone I could see there was something different about it and I never wanted another colour after that. But as I was explaining on another thread, it isn't that Es and Fs look yellow next to the Ds, what's different is a lack of sharp iciness. So the difference shows up in what isn't there in the two other colourless grades, rather than what is there, if that makes any sense. I don't see yellow in them, but I don't see Arctic ice, either. Not to get too weepy-eyed about my diamond, but the sheer whiteness almost gives it a mystical quality.

Wish another D owner would chime in!

My husband's family own a rock, crystal and gemstone museum here in Australia, I think one of the largest in this country and they have a shop. I used to handpick stock from wholesalers for them because I live in a city they don't.... I have a fair appreciation of how different mineral traces can make say a sapphire many different colours. Sapphires and other gemstones, (diamonds included) all vary in that underlying body tint or base colour depending upon where they come from. Other factors also impact on the icy look you are talking about, the cut for example as you mention can hide or mask colour....

My mother in law can look at just about any gemstone and identify where in the world it comes from and identify rare minerals and specimens I have never even heard of she is totally amazing!

 

[Smith1942]

Actually, Gs look pretty white to me until I put my D diamonds next to them. Also DeBeers says it's G-plus, so I'd expect it to be on the whiter end of G. Since many people say they can tell no difference between the colourless and top of the near-colourless range, I think the degree of difference shown in this photograph is striking, especially taking into account the difficulties of photos.

I'm glad you can also tell your D and E apart. I say that about mine, and no one else does, and I think most of the time they don't believe me.

You say my D is nothing special, but you don't know that - it could be. And isn't the point of Ds that they're really special, anyway? What about your D? Did you see the kind of difference between it and your other diamonds that I'm describing with mine?

Nah, I'm not bothered enough to send it off. The subject just piqued my interest.

I believe I said *my* D is nothing special. I didn't comment on yours. I don't think mine is special because I can easily find another one like it. It may cost a lot more, but they're available.

My D rb is super crisp, but it's also extremely well cut, which I believe contributes to the crispness. When my G rb sits next to the D rb, it looks the same, it's just not as white. When I put the D marquise next to the D rb, the marquise looks just as white, but not as bright... which is likely due to cut as well, as marquises will never have the same light return as an rb. My E marquise takes on a blue tint so in some light it appears whiter than the D marquise, but it still doesn't have the same light return as the D rb. The G rb isn't as white as either of the marquises, but it looks much more crisp. So what's the point of all that gibberish? Cut. It matters.

I have a feeling your Ds might be better cut than the Es and Fs, and that might be the difference you see.

Personally, I don't believe that Ds are any more special than other colors. It's whiter, but not necessarily rarer. I feel like it's mostly marketing. Mine is only special to me because it was the first piece of jewelry I bought after graduation, but I never wear it as I'm not into rbs anymore.

ETA: Ah, I see. I thought "the D" referred to the one in the photograph.

Could be, could be...

Interesting - I fell so completely in love with mine and think that Ds are special in general. Amazing how people vary!

There is a poor little unloved D in the world! Me adopty

 

[Smith1942]

Wow, you are a "mine" of information, Arkie! So interesting about Canadian diamonds. You're the Colour Queen, for sure! How do you know so much about diamond colour?

I do feel there's something special about the Ds that I received. From the moment I got the JA stone I could see there was something different about it and I never wanted another colour after that. But as I was explaining on another thread, it isn't that Es and Fs look yellow next to the Ds, what's different is a lack of sharp iciness. So the difference shows up in what isn't there in the two other colourless grades, rather than what is there, if that makes any sense. I don't see yellow in them, but I don't see Arctic ice, either. Not to get too weepy-eyed about my diamond, but the sheer whiteness almost gives it a mystical quality.

Wish another D owner would chime in!

My husband's family own a rock, crystal and gemstone museum here in Australia, I think one of the largest in this country and they have a shop. I used to handpick stock from wholesalers for them because I live in a city they don't.... I have a fair appreciation of how different mineral traces can make say a sapphire many different colours. Sapphires and other gemstones, (diamonds included) all vary in that underlying body tint or base colour depending upon where they come from. Other factors also impact on the icy look you are talking about, the cut for example as you mention can hide or mask colour....

My mother in law can look at just about any gemstone and identify where in the world it comes from and identify rare minerals and specimens I have never even heard of she is totally amazing!

Arkie, that is so cool!

 

[backwardsandinheels]

Great NY Times story. I've seen one, and it looked super clear. I am fascinated by this topic. Walter McTeigue showed us some e-rings while I was looking for an upgrade. I didn't know he had worked for Harry Winston. He was very nice and his tray of items was pretty unbelievable.

 

[Smith1942]

You've seen one? Wow, that's amazing! How big was it? And how much was it?

 

[AGBF]

Smith-

You keep going back to terms like "Arctic" and "icy white". My understanding (which admittedly isn't great) of Golconda diamonds is that they may not bring to mind the the snowy steppes of the Arctic...that they are, rather, transparent.

Deb

 

[Smith1942]

Gotcha. Thanks Deb!

Growing up, we had a kind of mint called a Fox's Glacier Mint, not sure if we had them over here. But it was a transparent white lozenge that was see-through and glassy. Maybe the Golcondas are a bit like that.

I WISH I could see one of those babies! (The diamonds, not the mints ) I just can't envisage them, because all diamonds are transparent. Hard to imagine MORE transparency. I guess you have to see one.

 

[AGBF]

Deb, here is an article from the New York Times. It says that Golcondas also come from other areas. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/18/fashion/18iht-acaj-diamonds-18.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

Extract:
"The Golconda mines have closed. But other sources of Type II diamonds are still in production. “Today, the exact same stones come from Lesotho and South Africa,” said Marvin Samuels, chief executive of Premier Gem Corp., a New York diamond supplier specializing in large, fine stones."

And also:

"What distinguishes Golcondas and their ilk from the vast majority of diamonds is their Type IIa designation, referring to gems that are devoid of nitrogen. The element, present in Type I diamonds, lends stones a slightly yellowish tinge."

Since my D diamonds are incredibly icy and Arctic in a way I can't quite describe - I feel chilly just looking at them - and since Type IIA are produced in actively-mined areas today, is it possible that mine are Type IIA, if not Golconda? It seems from the article that a Type IIA is where there is no yellow at all, and I'm sure there is none in mine. They have an iciness that even my Tiffany E doesn't. My diamonds are all just above half a carat. Presumably the Type II is found in smaller diamonds too.

What can I say, Smith, except:

a) Don't believe everything you read

and

B) That, "The New York Times" has a duty to report the news.

If large purveryors of luxury goods make pronouncements, no matter how stupid, the Times has the duty to report that the announcements have been made. I think that the people making the pronouncements about Type IIA diamonds being Golconda diamonds-especially the synthetic ones-is ludicrous. I think that the people making these claims are all diamond merchants with something to gain. But I am a layman. Ask Diagem what he thinks of those pronouncements.

Deb

 

[AGBF]

I think that the people making these claims are all diamond merchants with something to gain. But I am a layman. Ask Diagem what he thinks of those pronouncements.

Smith-

Since the article to which you and I were referring was not quoted directly, but merely linked to this thread, I have quoted a bit of it here for readers of this thread to see. I hope it makes our exchanges more easily comprehensible. I wanted to show that the people quoted by, "The New York Times" as accepting any old thing as a Golconda diamond had a vested interest in so doing!

"Indeed, modern dealers of such diamonds — like David Klein, executive director of Leviev, and Laurence Graff, the London merchant who is regarded by many as a latter-day Tavernier — often use the terms Golconda and Type IIa interchangeably."


and

"Even producers of synthetic and treated diamonds are hoping to cash in on the buzz. On March 1, G.I.A. reported that its laboratory had identified an 'impressive' 38.59-carat F color cushion cut , treated by a high-pressure, high-temperature process, that 'corresponded to a typical Type IIa diamond.'”

Deb/AGBF