GOG av cushion – are these good or should I keep on looking?

[reggie]

Hello everyone. I’ve been lurking for a while but I don’t think I’ll be able to do this alone. I emailed Jon but Marie wrote me back with a few possible matches to my criteria. I have a couple questions on the selections that she sent me and I would appreciate anyone’s opinions. First I would like to say that my budget is $5500 or less. I like the cut of the av cushion (that has square proportions) but it doesn’t have to be that cut. I want the stone to be eye clean, 1ct or more and from there I would like the best color possible.

Here is what Marie sent me …

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6472/
I really liked this one until I noticed the very large culet and it bothers me. It would be one thing if it was squarer but it’s rectangular in shape. Will I even notice this when the diamond is shrunk down to normal size?

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6469/
I really like the price of this one. It is H in color (just like the first one) and I’m nervous you will be able to notice a color difference with a halo around it. Will I be able to tell with such small diamonds around it?

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6360/
Does it not have as good as light return as the others? It is vs2 so I don’t think I will have to worry about if it really is eye clean.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6463/
On the top of my price range but I will be able to bank wire it so that helps. By looking at the GIA report it looks like one of the inclusions is on the surface of the table but I could be mistaken.

Do they all seem like winners? Do any of them seem to rise to the top? I don’t have to buy anything asap but I would like to get something within the month.

Also, here is the setting Leon is making for me. Leon Halo With so many other diamonds in the setting should I worry about the H in color? Finally, I am planning on having the diamond sent straight to Leon. That’s why I want to get this right the first time around. Is that a bad choice? Should I have the diamond sent to me first? I honestly think that no matter what is sent to me I’d like so I figured what's the point.

Thanks for everyone's help. Reggie

 

[CharmyPoo]

First off - did you get a quote from Leon yet? I am pretty sure that setting will be $3000 plus. It reminds me of a Cartier Ballerine ring with a halo.

I think all 4 choices are lovely. You can ask GOG to make you a video with all four diamonds side by side so you can make a better decision.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6472/
If the culet bothers you, pass on it. At almost 1.04 ratio, it would still be considered square but I myself have passed on a 1.04 as too rectangular. I suggest you pass on this diamond given the other choices you have.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6469/
Most melee will be F or G so I don''t think an H diamond will be an issue. I highly doubt you will see the difference. This paricular diamond has a teeny tiny table and a rounder appearance - do you like it? I think it looks cute.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6360/
I personally feel this diamond looks gorgeous and will perform very well. I am having issues with my computer so I can''t see all the images and certs but the main picture looks gorgeous.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6463/
If there are concerns about the inclusions, ask GOG how they feel about it. I doubt they will put a lifetime guarantee on a diamond they feel will have an issue.

 

[reggie]

CharmyPoo - Leon quoted me between 4-5k depending on the size of the center stone, etc. I initially asked him about a larger sized gem which would have been bigger than what I'm asking about now so I think that's why he quoted up to 5k. When he offered to source me a 1ct diamond I figured out the setting was more around 4k. Does that seem to high for the setting? I figure you get what you pay for and I want the best I can afford.

That some thought process is going on with the diamond right now. I want the best that I can afford. I'm nervous that my budget for my diamond is going to get me an ok diamond for a great setting and to me that would be a waste. If I can’t do it right on the setting and diamond then I think I should change my setting. Is there some advice on how much someone should spend on a setting compared to the diamond?

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6469/
I didn't even notice the tiny table on it so no it doesn't bother me. lol The rounder shape doesn’t bother me either. It has enough of a square shape to it that I'm happy with it.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6360/
The aset and diamxray pictures have really toned down colors to them. The red doesn't look that bright. Does that matter? I think I could be interpreting them wrong.

I have emailed ERD and I am waiting to hear back from them. I’m curious as to what they have to offer.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/1/2010 12:40:11 AM
Author: reggie


CharmyPoo - Leon quoted me between 4-5k depending on the size of the center stone, etc. I initially asked him about a larger sized gem which would have been bigger than what I''m asking about now so I think that''s why he quoted up to 5k. When he offered to source me a 1ct diamond I figured out the setting was more around 4k. Does that seem to high for the setting? I figure you get what you pay for and I want the best I can afford.

4-5k for Leon is the price for such a setting, and is dependant on the carat weight of the diamond sidestones and price and weight of platinum used. You could get a CAD/CAM wax designer to do the ring for less about ~3k (ERD does nice halo designs similar to this style) but it wouldn''t have close to the same quality pave work or refined style to it.

That some thought process is going on with the diamond right now. I want the best that I can afford. I''m nervous that my budget for my diamond is going to get me an ok diamond for a great setting and to me that would be a waste. If I can’t do it right on the setting and diamond then I think I should change my setting. Is there some advice on how much someone should spend on a setting compared to the diamond?

Its a matter of personal preference but not out of line what you plan on spending for each.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6469/
I didn''t even notice the tiny table on it so no it doesn''t bother me. lol The rounder shape doesn’t bother me either. It has enough of a square shape to it that I''m happy with it.

Its gorgeous fantastic cut for this style.

http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6360/
The aset and diamxray pictures have really toned down colors to them. The red doesn''t look that bright. Does that matter? I think I could be interpreting them wrong.

Also a great cut maybe not as good as 6469 but very suttle differences between the two. The color difference in red is just a lighting and lense setup difference and not a reflection on the diamond itself. If interested I would ask for a new set of images just to confirm no leakage in one of the mains (one part of the cross in the middle) but I think most likely that is just a lighting artifact.
-------

IMO you are choosing the top of the line antique cushion cut, Leon or ERD will not be able to find anything with the same light performance under the table of the stone. You have also chosen the top ring designer on Pricescope with the best pave work seen on this board. I''d say you have excellent taste and are getting excellent value for the ~10k you will be spending.

As an alternative you could reorganize your budget and buy a bigger stone ~1.2 - 1.3 Carat and have Mark at ERD make the ring for approximatel\y the same budget but there are tradeoffs, the light performance of the stone will not be the same and the setting will be a little bit bulkier with less refined style, but you will be able to have more input into the design of the ring and approve the CAD images before the ring is produced.

You have excellent taste I look forward to hearing more about what you decide and seeing the final product.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I would put all my money into the stone to get the biggest one possible and upgrade the setting later. But I am not a romantic, and I like big diamonds.

 

[reggie]

ChunkyCushionLover – Thank you for your advice. I was hoping you would read this thread and chime in as I have found your opinions to other people in my situation very helpful and informative. I find it interesting that the two diamonds that have gotten the most attention had the worst polish and symmetry rating among those four. And the one I think you liked the most http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6469/ had the lowest rating out of all of them. Also, what are your opinions on the last one on my list? http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6463/ I didn’t mention it before because I can’t ask GOG until Tuesday about the inclusions.

Also, do you think I should wait a week or two and see if something better might be available? Wait for ERD and see if I get lucky? Does anyone know how often GOG replenishes their stock of ac cushions? Having seen so many different diamonds and settings and everything else for so long I think I have gotten to the point where I just want all of this to be over with if you know what I mean.

dreamer dachsie – If my girlfriend wasn’t so in love with this setting or if I felt I wasn’t getting quality work for the money I would probably consider something else. There is nothing wrong with big diamonds though.

If anyone is curious Leon was very nice and helpful on the phone and he really tried to get me what I wanted in my price range. I initially didn’t give him the best of a budget to work with when finding a diamond (as I was thinking about colored gem prices) but he tried anyways. After researching a little more I decided I wanted a diamond more worthy of the quality of setting I was getting and have since raised my budget and it has been a lot easier. Haha.

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Reggie

Those are great diamonds and it comes down to personal preference which to pick. As for polish and symmetry, the naked untrained eye will not normally be able to distinguish between good and above for each, read more on this from the links on polish and symmetry from the Pricescope tutorial.

Also you would need to contact Jon at GOG to find out when he expects more AVC''s to come in stock.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/1/2010 2:34:04 AM
Author: reggie


ChunkyCushionLover – Thank you for your advice. I was hoping you would read this thread and chime in as I have found your opinions to other people in my situation very helpful and informative. I find it interesting that the two diamonds that have gotten the most attention had the worst polish and symmetry rating among those four. And the one I think you liked the most http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6469/ had the lowest rating out of all of them. Also, what are your opinions on the last one on my list? http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6463/ I didn’t mention it before because I can’t ask GOG until Tuesday about the inclusions.

If I was choosing simply by cut I'd choose 6463 provided it is eye clean. Also its a G which is helpful in antique cushions for making it faceup pretty white as they retain more color than round brilliant when viewed faceup.

Also, do you think I should wait a week or two and see if something better might be available? Wait for ERD and see if I get lucky? Does anyone know how often GOG replenishes their stock of ac cushions? Having seen so many different diamonds and settings and everything else for so long I think I have gotten to the point where I just want all of this to be over with if you know what I mean.

I'm not sure what you mean by better what are your ideal specs?, I like the pricing of SI1 stones if they are eye clean and Jon and staff will be quite straight with you on this just tell them what you want as eye clean (1 foot away faceup for example or 2 feet away looking at the side of the diamond etc.). The differences in cut are mostly minor as we are looking at very blown up images and in real life you will notice quite a bit less detail.
You can't go wrong with any of them. With respect to Symmetry and Polish you can ask Jon for a critical examination but in most cases it won't make a major difference you will be able to see with your eyes. Anything Very Good and above will likely not be discernable. With Good Polish or Symmetry I would ask him if it has any negative effects but my guess would be no as well considering this is a signature line.

As for ERD you can get a bigger stone from them for the same price, however it will not have the same superior cut performance see diagram here https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gog-august-vintage-vs-antique-cushion.135240/. Don't expect the same upgrade and buyback policies or reflector images to help you decide but they do choose pretty stones and many PSers have been happy with their rings.

dreamer dachsie – If my girlfriend wasn’t so in love with this setting or if I felt I wasn’t getting quality work for the money I would probably consider something else. There is nothing wrong with big diamonds though.

If anyone is curious Leon was very nice and helpful on the phone and he really tried to get me what I wanted in my price range. I initially didn’t give him the best of a budget to work with when finding a diamond (as I was thinking about colored gem prices) but he tried anyways. After researching a little more I decided I wanted a diamond more worthy of the quality of setting I was getting and have since raised my budget and it has been a lot easier. Haha.

Leon is a master at settings, choosing side stones, melee etc, but I think he knows only a fraction of what is necessary to choose athe best cut diamomond for a consumer. If I went with the diamond Leon had selected for me before I got my PS education I would really have been sorry.

 

[reggie]

Lorelei – Thank you for the links and your opinion of the diamonds. Don’t ask me why I didn’t look there on my own.

ChunkyCushionLover – When I wrote to wait and see if something better might come along I meant in terms of pricing for the relative same stats. First I want to say that they all look like great cuts to me and in my eyes they all seem equal. I am now comparing my color and clarity combinations to get the best bang for my buck.

Is a G SI1 (6463) really worth $900 more than a H SI1 (4649)? Is a H VS2 (6360) really worth $400 more than a H SI1 (4649)? Should I hold out to try to get a G color at a better price or can I get an eye clean F in my price range? Is any of that realistic? Are these prices consistent to how GOG usually prices their av cushions? Do they purposely limit what is on their website to keep their prices stronger or do they always place everything they have online? I realize talking to GOG personally could answer some of these questions but it’s nice to have an impartial 3rd party opinion.

Once ERD gets back to me I will do the same type of comparing relative to their suggested diamonds. From there I will compare the best of ERD’s to GOG’s and make my decision. It will be apples to oranges to some extent but I just want to make sure I am making the best decision. I am leaning toward GOG because of the superior cut but maybe ERD will be able to blow my socks off with a significantly better color/size/clarity combination. I really won’t know until they get back to me.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/1/2010 6:51:44 AM
Author: reggie
Lorelei – Thank you for the links and your opinion of the diamonds. Don’t ask me why I didn’t look there on my own.

Reggie, please don''t worry - I am always happy to post useful articles and threads, it takes time to find out where everything is!

 

[tyty333]

This is my favorite...
http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/6360/

I think the lighter aset and ideal scope pictures have to do with taking the pictures. I dont believe the stone is more
leaky. Ask GOG why the color difference for its images vs another stones images.

This ring is going to be gorgeous! Cant wait to see final pics!

 

[CharmyPoo]

I don''t think Leon is charging too much for the setting. I just wasn''t sure what your budget was since most people will not allocate 50% to the setting and 50% to the diamond. It it typically more like a 75% / 25% allocation - at least that is what I do. However, I think the setting is very important and I am sure you will have a lovely ring.

 

[reggie]

I have a couple questions regarding the GIA/AGS reports when compared to the summary of stats provided by GOG. I think I could be looking at this wrong and I would appreciate help on how I should be interpreting this.


Regarding 6360

GOG 5.86 x 5.96 x 3.99
GIA 5.87 x 5.96 x 3.99

GOG table percentage 50.22
GIA table percentage 49

GOG depth percentage 68.1
AGS depth percentage 68

GOG crown 34.50
GIA comments: crown angles are greater than 40


Regarding 6469

GOG 5.87 x 5.90 x 3.98
AGS 5.87 x 5.90 x 3.97

GOG table percentage 47.88
AGS table percentage 46.7

GOG depth percentage 67.76
AGS depth percentage 67.6


Where does GOG get these numbers? On both diamonds the table percentages are lower by at least 1% on the lab reports vs what GOG shows. Should I be concerned by any of this?

On 6360 why would GIA have a comment saying crown angles are greater than 40 yet GOG says its just 34.5?

Does this change your mind on what diamonds you liked more knowing what is actually show on the lab reports? Would GOG really manipulate what they write compared to the reports to have things look better or is all of this an honest mistake (even on my part)?

 

[Dreamer_D]

There is no manipulation. The angles are derived from a fancy set up with lasers I believe that measures everything. Variation like you describe is within the range of normal error. Even if you sent it to GIA 2x you would get different results. Diamond placement within the aparatus can cause such variances. GOG simply does their own assessment instead of just relying on the GIA report. As to the "more than 40" comment, I suspect it refers to something else but that is a question to ask GOG. They will give an honest reply.

And the differences are not 1%, they are .1%! Small eh? That''s normal error in measurment.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/2/2010 9:08:12 PM
Author: reggie

I have a couple questions regarding the GIA/AGS reports when compared to the summary of stats provided by GOG. I think I could be looking at this wrong and I would appreciate help on how I should be interpreting this.


Regarding 6360

GOG 5.86 x 5.96 x 3.99
GIA 5.87 x 5.96 x 3.99

GOG table percentage 50.22
GIA table percentage 49

GOG depth percentage 68.1
AGS depth percentage 68

GOG crown 34.50
GIA comments: crown angles are greater than 40


Regarding 6469

GOG 5.87 x 5.90 x 3.98
AGS 5.87 x 5.90 x 3.97

GOG table percentage 47.88
AGS table percentage 46.7

GOG depth percentage 67.76
AGS depth percentage 67.6


Where does GOG get these numbers? On both diamonds the table percentages are lower by at least 1% on the lab reports vs what GOG shows. Should I be concerned by any of this?

On 6360 why would GIA have a comment saying crown angles are greater than 40 yet GOG says its just 34.5?

Does this change your mind on what diamonds you liked more knowing what is actually show on the lab reports? Would GOG really manipulate what they write compared to the reports to have things look better or is all of this an honest mistake (even on my part)?

GOG has some issues with the reporting of numbers on their website. The angles and depths from AGS are more correct. DD is correct in the fact that some variation is normal and I can''t tell where GOG gets its numbers, perhaps from a sarin report. The Crown angle of 34.5 is a default value for round dimaonds and appears in places where it shouldn''t to indicate that that piece of information was not entered, this is a database error, I would pay no attention to it. The correct number should be around 41 Degrees for crown and pavillion around 40.5.

 

[reggie]

Thanks for the information. It was a little freaky seeing all the differences at first. I''m cool with it now though. Thanks again!

 

[Rhino]

Hi reggie,

Caught your posting here and would like to clarify. GIA, AGS and our lab each use what is perhaps the most sophisticated Sarin measuring device on the market to arrive at our proportions. A Sarin machine is a non contact measuring device that measures each facet of the diamond and while each of our machines are calibrated properly, these machines do have a certain amount of tolerance from machine to machine. If you note the comparisons you list below (except for the crown angle) are within .0x or .1% of each other. This is actually pretty amazing consistency. One extra machine we possess is a Helium scanner which is arguably even better than the Sarin and is what we generally use to generate our Gem Advisor files with.

Concerning the biggest discrepancy (the crown angle measurement) there is a default set of angles that get loaded on our website when no angles are provided being 34.5 crown and 40.75 pavilion. A problem we are having taken care of.

Thanks for asking and for considering us reggie. If you'd like you can learn more about the Sarin and the Helium scanners here.

Jonathan

 

[reggie]

Date: 2/2/2010 9:08:12 PM
Author: reggie









I have a couple questions regarding the GIA/AGS reports when compared to the summary of stats provided by GOG. I think I could be looking at this wrong and I would appreciate help on how I should be interpreting this.


Regarding 6360

GOG 5.86 x 5.96 x 3.99
GIA 5.87 x 5.96 x 3.99

GOG table percentage 50.22
GIA table percentage 49
Difference of 1.22%


GOG depth percentage 68.1
AGS depth percentage 68

GOG crown 34.50
GIA comments: crown angles are greater than 40


Regarding 6469

GOG 5.87 x 5.90 x 3.98
AGS 5.87 x 5.90 x 3.97

GOG table percentage 47.88
AGS table percentage 46.7
Difference of 1.18%

GOG depth percentage 67.76
AGS depth percentage 67.6


Where does GOG get these numbers? On both diamonds the table percentages are lower by at least 1% on the lab reports vs what GOG shows. Should I be concerned by any of this?

On 6360 why would GIA have a comment saying crown angles are greater than 40 yet GOG says its just 34.5?

Does this change your mind on what diamonds you liked more knowing what is actually show on the lab reports? Would GOG really manipulate what they write compared to the reports to have things look better or is all of this an honest mistake (even on my part)?

Thank you for the insight Rhino. I figured your company used a Sarin machine for some things but I didn’t realized you rescan everything before you add it into your inventory. I like that attention to detail.

As far as the differences in percentages I still think the table percentages are off by 1%. When it comes to the depth percentages I agree they are within .1% and that variance is expected when inspected again independently from the lab report.


Here is my math on the table percentages. Please show me where my logic is off.

Regarding 6360
50.22 – 49 = 1.22

Regarding 6360
47.88 - 46.7 = 1.18


Is that not correct?

 

[CharmyPoo]

Honestly, I wouldn't worry so much about these small differences. Go with the AGS cert.

You really won't notice 1% difference in the table. You won't be able to tell in real life. I don't think one can even tell in the greatly magnified images.