GOG august vintage vs antique cushion

[sparklyforever]

after reading thru some posts...
i am not clear on the difference between the august vintage that GOG does ... and then the antique cushions from ERD as an example. can someone help me understand?
also - is there somewhere i can read about ASET? i am not sure what this is...

let me add i have looked at CCL's recent outline on this with video (which i watched) ... but i am still at a loss to understand the basic difference of GOG august vs an antique...

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 1/31/2010 1:51:15 PM
Author:sparklyforever
after reading thru some posts...
i am not clear on the difference between the august vintage that GOG does ... and then the antique cushions from ERD as an example. can someone help me understand?
also - is there somewhere i can read about ASET? i am not sure what this is...

let me add i have looked at CCL''s recent outline on this with video (which i watched) ... but i am still at a loss to understand the basic difference of GOG august vs an antique...

Read about the ASET scope here - http://www.ideal-scope.com/1.using_ASET_scope.asp

The August Vintage Cushion is a branded cut by GOG that has a similar look to a chunky cushion. However, Jon at GOG has perfected it for optimal performance. Many of the other chunky cushions on the market (like the ones ERD can get) aren''t cut to perfection but they are beautiful still. A true antique cushion (ie. old stone) is not what ERD typically carries - you can go to SingleStone or Jewels by Erica Grace or Old World Diamonds for that.

 

[sparklyforever]

so if i talk to ERD am i asking for a chunky cushion if i don''t want the crushed ice look?
I thought it was called antique.. i don''t want the "old" stone...

 

[Gayletmom]

Sparkly, I am no expert but I am a fan of chunky cushions. As I understand the market, the chunky cushions we talk about here are mostly antiques, with the exception of the GOG August Vintage. Those are a recently designed cut to perform similar to an antique but with much improved optics and proportions.

Can one of our cushion fans please clarify?

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 1/31/2010 2:51:35 PM
Author: Gayletmom
Sparkly, I am no expert but I am a fan of chunky cushions. As I understand the market, the chunky cushions we talk about here are mostly antiques, with the exception of the GOG August Vintage. Those are a recently designed cut to perform similar to an antique but with much improved optics and proportions.

Can one of our cushion fans please clarify?

Most of the chunky cushions we see on here are actually newly cut stones and not antiques. We do see a lot of anqitues too but many are new.

 

[CharmyPoo]

Date: 1/31/2010 2:46:59 PM
Author: sparklyforever
so if i talk to ERD am i asking for a chunky cushion if i don''t want the crushed ice look?
I thought it was called antique.. i don''t want the ''old'' stone...

The easiest way is to go to GOG and tell them you want an August Vintage cushion. This is the fastest way to get a top performing chunky cushion. GOG has excellent upgrade policies.

You can also go to ERD and tell them you are looking for a chunky faceted cushion. Mark does not like cushions that look like crushed ice and I doubt he will sell you want.

What is your budget and what specs are you looking for? We may be able to recommend one to you.

 

[30yearsofdiamonds]

At ERD we have sold many Antique cut cushions as well as the modern cut cushions, since that is a preference of the customer. We have had great success in obtaining and presenting extremely beautiful cushions of both types. At the present time the majority of our customers have been more interested in the Antique style of cut.

When you mentioned that you do not want an Old Mine Cut, here is what qualifies at GIA as an Old Mine Cut; three out of these four characteristics must occur;

1. Crown angles greater then 40 degrees
2. Table % at 53% or smaller
3. Slightly Large Culet or larger
4. Wide pavilion mains, usually at least double the width of a normal sized fancy shaped diamonds pavilion mains.


[ edited ]

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 1/31/2010 7:32:59 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
At ERD we have sold many Antique cut cushions as well as the modern cut cushions, since that is a preference of the customer. We have had great success in obtaining and presenting extremely beautiful cushions of both types. At the present time the majority of our customers have been more interested in the Antique style of cut.

When you mentioned that you do not want an Old Mine Cut, here is what qualifies at GIA as an Old Mine Cut; three out of these four characteristics must occur;

1. Crown angles greater then 40 degrees
2. Table % at 53% or smaller
3. Slightly Large Culet or larger
4. Wide pavilion mains, usually at least double the width of a normal sized fancy shaped diamonds pavilion mains.


I do believe the manufacturers that cut the Antique cushions that are not sold by GOG would take exception to their cushions not cut to perfection. Especially since some of the August Vintage Cushions only have a Good symmetry on the GIA report, which means that either the outline is off, facets are not of equal shape, the culet or table are off center or the alignment of facets are off. All of which can affect brilliance.

1) Please identify yourself properly as per Pricescope rules by your name and company in your signature line and register yourself as a tradesmember if you wish to claim that status.

2) Representing ERD you should not make incorrect claims, GIA does NOT grade cushions as Old Mine Cut, they grade them as Old Mine Brilliant, Cushion Brilliant, or Modified Cushion Brilliant. Old Mine Brilliant is a general term to distinguish between stones determined to a cushion shape outline and satisfying three of the four criteria as you have stated above.

Although 4 was explained to me as a Lower Half Length Equal to or less than 60% as determined by eye so that is still roughly consistent with your statement.

Old Mine Cut = Old + Mine Cut (The stones you are selling are neither Old nor mine cut)

The GIA dictionary terms an Old Mine Brilliant as the following: Early form of Brilliant Cut with a nearly square or Cushion Shape girdle outline, a high crown, a small table, deep pavillion and a very large culet.

3) Your negative comments about GOG stones are a very poor argument and borderline against the PS rules for a tradesmember. Very few AVCs have good symmetry (20% of the current ones being offered) the other 80% have Very Good, Excellent or Ideal symmetry(AGS only). In addition, facet meet points, girdle thickness uniformity, shape outline symmetry and culet symmetry have very little impact on the brilliance of ANY of the AVC line as all have been checked by eye, Idealscope, ASET and photography for light performance especially under the table of the diamond and the virtual facets created by the light interplay of the pavillion mains. Please backup such a claim by linking to any August Vintage Cushion http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamondResults.php?shape=8&resultsColumns=278921231 and support your claim with visual images or commentary on the ASET, DiamXray, Photograph, Video or Microscope images presented therein.

4) If you are selling for ERD you should readily understand and honestly comment on the differences between the majority of the stones ERD sells and the GOG August Vintage series. I will provide one example to illustrate the the increase obstruction in the stones regularly sold by ERD and will use a photograph you sent to a customer and posted in another thread as compared to a GOG August Vintage presented on their website. Is it unfortunate that lately ERD has not been providing customers with ASET images(as was done for me) of your stones much to their detriment but comparing those images would make the differences even more obvious.

As a side note I bought my only two rings from Mark at ERD and I have a great deal of respect for him as a teacher, vendor, educator and all around trustworthy person, however if you or any other member of ERD makes similar posts as this one in the future I will quickly lose respect for the company and will question the reputation of ERD moving forward.

CCL

Edit: There is something wrong with the attach file function as soon as it is corrected I will attach the comparison image.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Attached Picture showing a comparison between an ERD reccomended diamond versus a GOG August Vintage Cushion.
https://www.pricescope.com/idealbb/email.asp?mode=send&postID=2293999&catID=1&forumID=3&mtype=reply&pageNo=1&num=30 where the discussion of the two stones was first mentioned.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 1/31/2010 11:46:12 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 1/31/2010 7:32:59 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds

1) Please identify yourself properly as per Pricescope rules by your name and company in your signature line and register yourself as a tradesmember if you wish to claim that status.

chunkycushionlover,

If you have an issue with a trade member or anything else - contact admin and raise your concern with them so they can advise and deal with it if necessary.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/1/2010 4:03:01 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 1/31/2010 11:46:12 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 1/31/2010 7:32:59 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds

1) Please identify yourself properly as per Pricescope rules by your name and company in your signature line and register yourself as a tradesmember if you wish to claim that status.

chunkycushionlover,

If you have an issue with a trade member or anything else - contact admin and raise your concern with them so they can advise and deal with it if necessary.

I haven't reported the post and don't intend to, if this person indeed works for ERD I'll let ERD and PS sort out how this account should be setup. Until changed otherwise I will assume this poster is only speaking as a consumer and has just decided to mention their association with ERD because they think it lends more weight to their arguments.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/1/2010 4:08:00 AM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 2/1/2010 4:03:01 AM
Author: Lorelei

Date: 1/31/2010 11:46:12 PM
Author: ChunkyCushionLover

Date: 1/31/2010 7:32:59 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds

1) Please identify yourself properly as per Pricescope rules by your name and company in your signature line and register yourself as a tradesmember if you wish to claim that status.

chunkycushionlover,

If you have an issue with a trade member or anything else - contact admin and raise your concern with them so they can advise and deal with it if necessary.

I haven''t reported the post and don''t intend to, if this person indeed works for ERD I''ll let ERD and PS sort out how this account should be setup. Until changed otherwise I will assume this poster is only speaking as a consumer and has just decided to mention their association with ERD because they think it lends more weight to their arguments.

It is best to report anything you are concerned with as it helps admin deal with it quickly, especially if you believe this poster is not actually affiliated with ERD, admin will be able to address this and take appropriate action if needed.

 

[30yearsofdiamonds]

I apologize to anyone that thought I was misrepresenting where I work. I did start out the post with, At ERD we....

I do work here and had previously signed the bottom with my name and Engagement Rings Direct.

Since there must be a formal filing with Pricescope I will have Mark take care of that today.

Thank you all for pointing that out to me.

 

[30yearsofdiamonds]

Chunky Cushion Lover,

Thank you for correcting my shape call of Old Mine Cut, I had forgotten that the GIA had replaced that term with Old Mine Brilliant several years ago.

Dan
engagementringsdirect

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/1/2010 11:33:49 AM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds


Dan
engagementringsdirect

Dan, its good to get to know you!

I hope we see more of you on the forums as your experience and expertise would be much appreciated and helpful here!

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/1/2010 8:12:11 AM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
I apologize to anyone that thought I was misrepresenting where I work. I did start out the post with, At ERD we....

I do work here and had previously signed the bottom with my name and Engagement Rings Direct.

Since there must be a formal filing with Pricescope I will have Mark take care of that today.

Thank you all for pointing that out to me.

Dan,

Thanks for clarifying your position and telling us who you are. Your many years a grader with GIA is appreciated real world experience, I hope you post regularly as we can all learn from your expertise.

It has bothered me lately that some consumers have posted that ERD may no longer grant a customers request for an ASET image on a potential cushion purchase.
I am often asked to judge cushion light performance from a photograph and the certificate data when considering ERD stones and as you can appreciate this is very limited and incomplete information.

I have to ask why these requests would be denied recently, while myself and others were given this information in the past?

This has popped up several times in the last month from several new customers to ERD. In light of the statement you made about the beautiful cushions that ERD purchases for its customers, I would think you would want to use as many many reflector technologies and visual representations as possible to highlight the precision cutting and beauty of the stones offered especially in the case of modern cut 8 main antique cushion brilliants which are the most popular ones purchased by Pricescopers here.

I would be delighted to hear your thoughts on the subject.

Sincerely,
CCL

 

[30yearsofdiamonds]

We just put in an order from the ASET Camera so that we can better assist our potential customers.

 

[ChunkyCushionLover]

Date: 2/2/2010 2:59:48 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
We just put in an order from the ASET Camera so that we can better assist our potential customers.

That is great news, I really hope that it is a white background backlit ASET not the black ones.
It is very difficult to see contrast and leakage in the black background ones.

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/2/2010 2:59:48 PM
Author: 30yearsofdiamonds
We just put in an order from the ASET Camera so that we can better assist our potential customers.

Thanks to ERD for taking this step!!

 

[bgray]

Date: 1/31/2010 2:46:59 PM
Author: sparklyforever
so if i talk to ERD am i asking for a chunky cushion if i don''t want the crushed ice look?

I thought it was called antique.. i don''t want the ''old'' stone...

just to be clear ERD does not sell "antique" stones--that is really a descriptor of the appearance.

 

[sparklyforever]

thanks bdgray....
i consider myself a bright person - but learning about diamonds....... clarity, color - not a problem... the whole symmetry, cut ... angles, etc... its getting the better of me. i need to sit in a classroom with a teacher.

ERD: do you know know when your machine will arrive?