God-daughter is doing online pawn

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

I find it disturbing that the OP finds any sex act not between a loving couple gross. Now don’t get me wrong I’m a 50yo woman who has been with the same man since I was 18. Would I make a s.xtape or nude pictures - nope not on your life but as 18yo’s starting our lives together yes we did look at pawn. It was never a major part of our relationship and was something that died a natural death during our 20’s from memory but it was never disgusting, dirty or forced upon either one of us.

As parents of two teenagers and one preteen we have had plenty of discussions with them about pawn and how it is not how most relationships work. That not every body - both male and female - looks like those on the screen. That their bodies are their own and no one has any right to see or touch without their permission.

I would never demonise any job - even s.. work because unless you live their lives, you don’t know what and why they are doing it.

In some cases pawn us a tool required by some - I know a woman with advanced MND who has given her husband a number of hall passes as she is locked within her body. Should that 38yo man not experience any sexual experiences or is watching pawn for release the “lesser of all evils”?

Nothing in this life is black or white - some people enjoy sex more then others, some dislike all aspects - but no one should impose “their” ideals on a person of age that seemingly has chosen to do something that is not illegal IMO.

I’ll jump in here and also add that sexual acts between two consenting adults are not gross in and of themselves. I think OP mentioned that they also find certain acts/positions gross and demeaning even if they occur within the confines of a loving couple. I disagree with that as well. Would’ve made that point earlier but it slipped my mind in my previous comment.

Everyone enjoys different things, and as long as everyone involved in the act is doing so enthusiastically and consensually; and is of age; not under the influence, and is being carried out in a way that doesn’t cause them permanent harm - I don’t think it’s anyone else’s place to decry it.

 

[Jambalaya]

I find it disturbing that the OP finds any sex act not between a loving couple gross.

No no no. I said that I find s*x work gross and that the safest and healthiest way to enjoy s*x is in a loving relationship, IMO.

That's a far cry from what you said above.

There is so much research on all the damaging negatives of the s*x industry that I don't know how anyone can defend it. Especially given that most of the negatives are suffered by female sex workers. I guess no one looked at the link about the bad outcomes.

 

[Jambalaya]

It's anti-woman to be OK with all the bad things that female s*x workers suffer. Look at the link I posted and do a bit of research. All the mental-health issues, the addiction, the physical health issues. This is OK?

And from a Wikipedia page summing up feminist views on the issue:

"In prostitution, women have sex with men they would never otherwise have sex with. The money thus acts as a form of force, not as a measure of consent. It acts like physical force does in rape."[13]

Some anti-prostitution scholars hold that true consent in prostitution is not possible. Barbara Sullivan says, "In the academic literature on prostitution there are very few authors who argue that valid consent to prostitution is possible. Most suggest that consent to prostitution is impossible or at least unlikely."[14] "(...) most authors suggest that consent to prostitution is deeply problematic if not impossible (...) most authors have argued that consent to prostitution is impossible. For radical feminists this is because prostitution is always a coercive sexual practice. Others simply suggest that economic coercion makes the sexual consent of sex workers highly problematic if not impossible...".[15]

Finally, abolitionists believe no person can be said to truly consent to their own oppression and no people should have the right to consent to the oppression of others. In the words of Kathleen Barry, consent is not a "good divining rod as to the existence of oppression, and consent to violation is a fact of oppression. Oppression cannot effectively be gauged according to the degree of 'consent,' since even in slavery there was some consent, if consent is defined as inability to see any alternative."[16]

 

[Jambalaya]

And two more very good points:

Catharine MacKinnon argues that prostitution "isn't sex only, it's you do what I say, sex."[22]

These feminists point out that women from the lowest socioeconomic classes—impoverished women, women with a low level of education, women from the most disadvantaged racial and ethnic minorities—are overrepresented in prostitution all over the world; as stated by Catherine MacKinnon: "If prostitution is a free choice, why are the women with the fewest choices the ones most often found doing it?".[10][11

 

[Jambalaya]

But as long as we don't judge the s*x industry, that's the most important thing. *eye roll*

God forbid that we judge things that are negative and damaging to women.

Someone said that I've lived a different life to my GD. Less than you might think. And I could say the same about some people here who are coming from a place of privilege, who think that the s*x industry is all fine and dandy. My retired detective friend, who looked after s*x workers who had been abused, has a different take on it. It's easy to be all cool when you don't ever see this side of life in reality, or have someone in your life who's doing this.

I cannot see any positive consequences of my GD entering this life. She has entered a world of danger that can only escalate. And there's nothing that her parents or I can do about it. So that's just great. I guess we'll just have to watch her self-destruct.

If this gross industry didn't exist, she'd be safe now.

 

[Jambalaya]

It would be more helpful to help workers get OUT of the industry, by offering them healthcare including treatment for addiction, for mental-health issues, and by offering them re-training at something they'd like to do, so that they can live dignified and safe lives.

 

[Rfisher]

You'll remember my thread about my GD having had a relationship age 14-16 with a man who was 30. This is the same GD, who is also now 30.

in remembering the other thread - and now reading this one,
my heads spinning too much to comment.

I respect the vent, dump or debate this is, tho.

 

[Cerulean]

Woah @Jambalaya this turned south.

Prostitution is one facet is sex work. There are tons of different professions within sex work, some of which don’t even involve sexual intercourse. It’s a generally stigmatized term that is associated with criminal behavior - I think it’s uncharitable to use it in regards to your GD

I really wouldn’t generalize studies about prostitution, and I’m highly suspicious of most research on prostitution as it’s not legalized in most of the world and is notorious for abusing research practices to prevent it from being decriminalized. If you look at research, I encourage you to limit sources to where it is legalized or be discerning

 

[Jambalaya]

^^ The p. term is used in the research I was quoting. In my own posts, I always use s*x work or s*x worker. I'm at work now and didn't have time to change all the references.

 

[Jambalaya]

I don't understand why some people think it turned south. I'm angry at this god-awful industry for swallowing up my GD, justifiably so, imo. I'm sure anyone worried about a loved one in this field would feel the same. Now it's cam work, but what awaits her in the future?

 

[telephone89]

" As women, all of us have the equipment. We could all choose to sell our bodies. I have more respect for people who could choose that but find other ways to make money, than I do for those who choose the easiest option. While earning money is never easy, I think sex work is easier than years of training and climbing the career ladder"

Good lord some of the things on this thread are disgusting. But to address this specifically: No, I don't think "we all" are able to do this. You talk a big game about shooting a video and making money, but are you actually going to? Extremely doubtful. As, I would say, is the same with most people on this thread (myself included). So yes, we all have the parts, but no, not all of us are capable.

How is "selling your body" any different than say, construction? Or mining? Is it skipping the corporate ladder climb by choosing to swing a sledge hammer and do demolition? Zero experience needed, using your body to make money, no need to go to school and do years of training. And really, anyone CAN do it. Or do you just look down upon anyone who doesn't have a college degree and hasnt* done things what you deem as the "right" way?

On the original topic re OF/pawn, if you don't want to be involved, then dont. I know someone who considers themselves a sex worker. She advocates for safe work, regulations, and agency. From what I've heard of OF, it actually sounds extremely safe for content creators, and that's a huge reason why it took off.

 

[Jambalaya]

How is "selling your body" any different than say, construction? Or mining?

Significantly lower risk in construction and mining of addiction, STDs, rape, murder, sexual abuse, and psychological effects, to name a few.

 

[Jambalaya]

Good lord some of the things on this thread are disgusting.

Imo, what's disgusting is women being OK with other women inhabiting the dangerous and abusive world of s*x work. It's all great as long as our own partners don't buy the services and as long as our own female loved ones aren't involved in it, right? But it's OK for other people's loved ones to be involved in and it's OK for other people's partners and sons to buy it, I guess.

 

[telephone89]

Imo, what's disgusting is women being OK with other women inhabiting the dangerous and abusive world of s*x work. It's all great as long as our own partners don't buy the services and as long as our own female loved ones aren't involved in it, right? But it's OK for other people's loved ones to be involved in and it's OK as long as our own partners and sons don't buy it, right?

I mentioned my friend IS involved in it actually, maybe you didn't read my post in full before replying? If she is happy and feels safe, then I trust her. She's a big girl, she also has a masters degree paid for via sex work. So maybe she doesnt count for you to be able to look down upon her as an uneducated addict waiting to be raped.

Significantly lower risk in construction and mining of addiction, STDs, rape, murder, sexual abuse, and psychological effects, to name a few.

You're not going to get STDs or raped via OFs sending pics and video, but nice try! And you'll be shocked to learn about the rate of addiction in manual labour jobs.

 

[Jambalaya]

^^ Telephone, what about the longterm effects of the industry on your friend, and the risks she faces in getting intimate in a private space with strangers? You're not concerned about that? Have you read about the unfavorable life outcomes for s*x workers compared to non-s*x workers?

As for the OF website, you don't think that it could be a conduit to worse things? And what about the security risks? It's all under her real name, and apparently the whole thing about OF is that you strike up a custom relationship with your subscribers, which seems to just invite obsessive stalker-y types. OF seems like a huge, huge security risk, and a foot-hold into a world with an extremely dark underbelly (s*x work as a whole, not OF). I could not ever wish that on any woman, let alone one I know and care about.

 

[LemonMoonLex]

Imo, what's disgusting is women being OK with other women inhabiting the dangerous and abusive world of s*x work. It's all great as long as our own partners don't buy the services and as long as our own female loved ones aren't involved in it, right? But it's OK for other people's loved ones to be involved in and it's OK for other people's partners and sons to buy it, I guess.

I'm actually completely ok with my partner purchasing access to p**n sites or OF & I'm friends with two women who consider themselves to be s** workers. You have an incredibly narrow view of this world, which I get if you haven't spoken to real men & women who love their job. Also on construction & mining being safe .....hell no is it safe! Lol those are both incredibly physically dangerous jobs.

 

[telephone89]

^^ Telephone, what about the longterm effects of the industry on your friend, and the risks she faces in getting intimate in a private space with strangers? You're not concerned about that? Have you read about the unfavorable life outcomes for s*x workers compared to non-s*x workers?

As for the OF website, you don't think that it could be a conduit to worse things? And what about the security risks? It's all under her real name, and apparently the whole thing about OF is that you strike up a custom relationship with your subscribers, which seems to just invite obsessive stalker-y types. OF seems like a huge, huge security risk, and a foot-hold into a world with an extremely dark underbelly (s*x work as a whole, not OF). I could not ever wish that on any woman, let alone one I know and care about.

I think she's doing great so far, and no, I'm not worried about long term effects of the industry with her. Your posts were based on prostitution, which is not a valid comparison to many other forms of sex work. OF-type work is much closer to your idol Pamela, choosing to do what type of work they want, when they want, and negotiating a price they want.

Cam girls have been around for years, OF just legitimized it. Honestly, stalkers gonna stalk. How was your GD less at risk previously, posting sexy pictures, with her name, workplace, family, etc all there? If someone wanted to stalk her they could. It doesn't take much to find out all that sort of info anyways. She's not further at risk now, she's just getting paid for it.

 

[Jambalaya]

So maybe she doesnt count for you to be able to look down upon her as an uneducated addict waiting to be raped.

I know that many s*x workers are in the industry because they have terrible problems and I would never look down on them. They need support. To quote myself:

^^ I don't see how any amount of destigmatizing can offset the terrible negatives of this industry.

It would be more helpful to help workers get OUT of the industry, by offering them healthcare including treatment for addiction, for mental-health issues, and by offering them re-training at something they'd like to do, so that they can live dignified and safe lives.

^ I'm sorry that you got the impression from the above that I look down on the workers.

In terms of my GD, I'm disappointed in her choice because she has so many options and advantages that many women in the industry don't have. I'm not going to say that to her, of course.

 

[Jambalaya]

which I get if you haven't spoken to real men & women who love their job.

So what about all the bad outcomes for s*x workers that we hear about? Are they false? And MUCH abuse goes on on the set of pawn movies. Many female workers have spoken out about it. Think about that next time your partner consumes pawn.

 

[Jambalaya]

How was your GD less at risk previously, posting sexy pictures, with her name, workplace, family, etc all there? If someone wanted to stalk her they could.

I know, and I thought she was at risk before, too.

 

[Jambalaya]

Unless people would be totally OK with their own daughter being a s*x worker - of any kind - then they shouldn't think it's OK for any other woman to do, either.

 

[telephone89]

I know that many s*x workers are in the industry because they have terrible problems and I would never look down on them. To quote myself:



^ I'm sorry that you got the impression from the above that I look down on the workers.

In terms of my GD, I'm disappointed in her choice because she has so many options and advantages that many women in the industry don't have. I'm not going to say that to her, of course.

You said you don't have respect for them using their body and skipping the corporate ladder... that sounds basically like looking down upon them.

 

[lovedogs]

This thread has gotten full-on disgusting with the awful judgement. OP: your attitudes about sex, p*rn and sex work in general are outdated and harmful. Sorry to be blunt, but it's the truth.

You are showing how narrow minded you are, and how clear it is that this ISN'T about your god daughter, but is, in fact, about you and your own baggage. Please do work on yourself rather than spending time judging others. Your time would be much better spent examining your own extreme views about this rather than shouting about them online.

EDIT to add. My DH watches po*n, and so do I (SHOCKING, I KNOW). So do many people. It turns out that you aren't the authority on what is "right" to do with anyone elses body but your own. Don't like doggy-style? Neat, then don't have sex that way.

 

[telephone89]

I know, and I thought she was at risk before, too.

So this is less about OF and sex work than you judging her for what she posts on the internet? Sexy but clothed = not ok. Sexy but naked and making money = not ok. You are using the guise of "danger" but are actually just judging a woman for feeling confident and posting pictures of herself.

 

[lovedogs]

So this is less about OF and sex work than you judging her for what she posts on the internet? Sexy but clothed = not ok. Sexy but naked and making money = not ok. You are using the guise of "danger" but are actually just judging a woman for feeling confident and posting pictures of herself.

ding ding ding! Turns out this isnt about anything other than OPs judgement, but under the guise of fear mongering. Sorry, but my patience for this thread has officially reached its limit.

 

[Jambalaya]

^^ Others have pointed out to me that her online stuff - whether regular or OF - could be to do with trauma from her past. You think that it's not and that she's confident. What am I supposed to think?

I think all her sexy internet stuff could lead to stalking, absolutely. It's all under her real name. You would not be worried if your daughter or GD or niece was doing this?

 

[Jambalaya]

OK, well when she gets raped or murdered or commits suicide, or worse, I'll come back to this thread and you can tell me how safe she was and how I was just being horrible.

 

[Jambalaya]

You said you don't have respect for them using their body and skipping the corporate ladder... that sounds basically like looking down upon them.

Corporate ladder? I said career ladder. Could be nursing, teaching, hairdressing, real estate, police, running a nail salon, or a million other things. Doesn't have to be anything office-based.

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

So what about all the bad outcomes for s*x workers that we hear about? Are they false? And MUCH abuse goes on on the set of pawn movies. Many female workers have spoken out about it.

I think what you’re not grasping is that OF is NOT the same as traditional p*rn. There are no camera crews and stranger there to have sex with you. It is literally made by you, at home, and the OF platform does quite a bit to “ensure” that the creators are doing so consensually. Ofc someone could have been forced or coerced into making an account but the barriers are much, much higher. And camming is basically like nude modelling. She is not going to catch an STD from a camera or computer screen.

Yes putting sexually explicit content on the internet opens you up for harassment. But simply literally existing as a woman opens you up for harassment as well. She isn’t going to be any less at risk if she has a revealing Instagram with public info. Let’s put the onus on the stalkers/abusers/assaulters and not on the victims.

I get that you’re concerned. From what you’ve posted about your goddaughter, she’s been through a lot in her life. Possibly being preyed on as a child had an effect on her psyche. She absolutely needs to go to therapy to make sure she is entering this line of work from a healthy mindset. But that does NOT mean that ALL women that work in the sex industry are hapless addict sexual assault victims, and one of the best ways to help them is to legalise the industry and make it so they can access it on their own terms. The sex industry can be dirty because of its ties to coercion or trafficking, and it’s stomach churning to think of the plight of some women forced to partake in it….

the key term being forced. In countries where sex work is legalised, workers are in much better position. They are able to negotiate hours, salary, benefits etc. They pay taxes. They can go to the police for protection or file cases. They usually work with security. They can get frequent tests and access to healthcare. And this is conflating in person sex work with online sex work. Online work is even safer.

Edit: also, I don’t have any children, but if one of them chose, of their own volition, as an adult, without any coercion, to enter the sex work field… that is none of my business.

 

[Jambalaya]

Oh, god, the suicide risk. Oh god. I only just thought of that.