God-daughter is doing online pawn

[Jambalaya]

Spelling it "pawn" so it will get past the auto-mod.

You'll remember my thread about my GD having had a relationship age 14-16 with a man who was 30. This is the same GD, who is also now 30.

A few days ago I discovered that she is selling her body online on a website entitled onlyfans.com. And she's doing it under her real name, from a new Instagram account that's linked with her regular one. So she's not trying to hide it. Her parents know, and they don't agree with it. She says she can make money from it without leaving her room, and that it's empowering. Her new IG is VERY explicit - there's a highlights reel with strategically placed stickers, and an invitation on the bio to "cum and play" (jesus) and an offer for 30 days of her "completely naked" (dear god). You have to sign up to onlyfans.com see any of that - her new IG account linked to it says she has 12 "fans" so far - but IG says there are 69 photos and 25 videos already.

Part of me is seriously shocked, and another part isn't as surprised as you might think. Her regular IG - with both her parents as followers, mind - is very flirty, lots of teeny-bikini shots, partially-clothed shots, micro-mini shots, and a couple with transparent-ish tops and no bra, where you can clearly see her nipples. I was surprised when I saw the nipple shots, but she's a very flamboyant character, so I thought, okaaaaaay.....

However, a bigger part of me never thought she'd go this far. I am surprised.

I had never heard of these sites, but apparently fans who really like you pay to see special content that you upload for them. Some people have been very successful, and others have found it hard work for little money.

I'm so out of touch with young women today. IS this kind of thing empowering? Personally, I don't think it is. I'd rather work three jobs or move home to my parents than do something like this. But some people think that WAP is empowering, while others think it's gross.

I haven't said anything to her, and don't plan to. She's 30 and can do what she wants. But I'm really quite shocked, and although I hate to say disappointed, I am. Her father is still paying off her student loans for her $70k-a-year school, and this is what she does? Her parents brought her up much better than that.

I don't know what to think.

ETA: Apparently you have to drive traffic from your main IG account to the onlyfans site, because apparently there is no search function for the "models" on the latter. It seems that the site is made for people to monetize their existing social media audience, which is why it's under her real name. Just thought people might ask why she's doing it under her real name. When I looked up what onlyfans is, there are quite a few press articles about it, but I had never heard of it.

But talk about a security risk!!

 

[Jambalaya]

Info, about the site:

Selling sexy: The men and women of OnlyFans discuss reality behind the scenes

"They feel like we can't possibly have self-love," one user said. "We're confident in our bodies. So, we are putting it out there and we're making money doing it.”

abcnews.go.com

 

[AllAboardTheBlingTrain]

Well, would I personally sell content through OF? No, I wouldn’t. I like to keep my sexuality and my body private. But ultimately, if someone isn’t being coerced into doing it, it’s their life. Also, I do believe part of feminism and freedom of sexual choice and expression IS having the freedom to monetise your sexuality. Freedom to make your own choices includes exploiting systems or mindsets that currently oppress women as long as you’re not being coerced into it. Some women approach it from the mindset that you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t; every single thing you do as a woman is sexualised by men; so if you can profit off of it, why not? It’s complex. I’ve read about OF and a lot of women who model on there like it because a) you don’t need to fit a specific ideal body type; and b) you don’t need to actually perform sexual acts. It’s also a lot harder to make real money off of it of course.

That being said, the part I find distasteful is the Instagram profile. Children frequent Instagram, and I don’t like the idea of sexual content on the platform. But then again, sexual content is all over the media and the web, and impossible to hide as such.

 

[kenny]

Technology + Consenting adults = none of my business.

Underage creating and viewing content? ... Hell no!

 

[Jambalaya]

She's not underage. She's 30.

And yes, exactly. That's why I'm not saying anything to her. But privately I'm shocked, worried, and disappointed.

 

[Jambalaya]

Well, would I personally sell content through OF? No, I wouldn’t. I like to keep my sexuality and my body private. But ultimately, if someone isn’t being coerced into doing it, it’s their life. Also, I do believe part of feminism and freedom of sexual choice and expression IS having the freedom to monetise your sexuality. Freedom to make your own choices includes exploiting systems or mindsets that currently oppress women as long as you’re not being coerced into it. Some women approach it from the mindset that you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t; every single thing you do as a woman is sexualised by men; so if you can profit off of it, why not? It’s complex. I’ve read about OF and a lot of women who model on there like it because a) you don’t need to fit a specific ideal body type; and b) you don’t need to actually perform sexual acts. It’s also a lot harder to make real money off of it of course.

That being said, the part I find distasteful is the Instagram profile. Children frequent Instagram, and I don’t like the idea of sexual content on the platform. But then again, sexual content is all over the media and the web, and impossible to hide as such.

I agree with pretty much all this.

 

[Jambalaya]

I know I'm going to get called out for the "disappointed" part. I am disappointed, because most women could make money from selling their bodies. We've all got breasts, hips, butts, and vajayjays, after all. Any of us could do it. I think it's the harder and more honorable route to sell your labor - whether physical or mental - instead of your body. I know others differ, but that's my opinion. While I wouldn't want the choice to do sex work taken away from people - I want society to be free - privately, I don't consider working your body to be anything like as impressive as working your mind. And what about the implications for her future? What about safety? It's all under her real name. Anyone could find her. IG has her name and location splashed about, and her family members. It wouldn't be hard to figure out where she lives.

Venting here because I'm keeping my mouth shut in real life!

 

[kenny]

She's not underage. She's 30.

And yes, exactly. That's why I'm not saying anything to her. But privately I'm shocked, worried, and disappointed.

Consenting adult.
I stop right there.

 

[Jambalaya]

^^Well, if you knew her well and had watched her grow up, you might have further thoughts and feelings about it. It's easy when the person is a faceless stranger to you.

 

[kenny]

^^Well, if you knew her well and had watched her grow up, you might have further thoughts and feelings about it.

Not likely.

I've intentionally 'fallen-out-of-touch' with immediate blood family members when they change into someone I don't want in my life.

I value my peace.
When I'm near people who violate my boundaries I find I fall off my bicycle.

Now, instead of being in a blood family (none of whom I'd chosen) I've assembled my chosen family.

But of course, to each their own.

 

[Cerulean]

I’m the same age as her. This behavior isn’t typical amongst any of my peers, I’ve known of people like this from a distance. I don’t think it’s a “young” thing. Although I’m very conservative with my body compared to many of my peers. As in, if I wear a low cut top I feel uncomfortable with the attention.

I’d be shocked too. I’m honestly not even remotely interested in keeping company like that. You do you, I guess, but I’m not going to be around it. I don’t want my spouse near you. I would be devastated if my daughter did anything like that. It’s not a jealousy thing. Neither my husband or I find that amount in-your-face sexuality the least bit interesting or pleasant.

I also think the number of young women who pose nude or semi-nude on social…don’t understand that they will preclude themselves from many other careers.

I know I sound judgmental but honestly I don’t care, it is how I feel. I don’t find it empowering to make profit off of the male gaze in this way and I have yet to meet young women who behave this way who are emotionally balanced and really at peace with what they are doing. It just seems like insecurity and exhibitionism, but I would be happy to be proven wrong. I’m generalizing based on anecdotal experience but I find this type of behavior extremely demeaning to women and I really do not enjoy encountering cleavage and a** all over Instagram when I’m trying to look at mostly goofy photos of pets and jewelry.

It’s not sex work generally, as I’ve met a few sex workers or performers (like burlesque) before who acted quite differently from this. I was friends with a dominatrix when I lived in NYC. She was a badass. Discreet, smart as a whip, professional. The way she handled herself, and her business…felt very different to me. She did strike me as empowered and enjoyed what she did. Not a hint of shame about her and she was damn good at it.

 

[Jambalaya]

Not likely.

I've intentionally 'fallen-out-of-touch' with immediate blood family members when they change into someone I don't want in my life.

I value my peace.
When I'm near people who violate my boundaries I find I fall off my bicycle.

Now, instead of being in a blood family (none of whom I'd chosen) I've assembled my chosen family.

But of course, to each their own.

To put it another way, she's someone I care about. If it was someone you knew and cared about, you might be less neutral, is what I'm saying.

 

[TooPatient]

I know I'm going to get called out for the "disappointed" part. I am disappointed, because most women could make money from selling their bodies. We've all got breasts, hips, butts, and vajayjays, after all. Any of us could do it. I think it's the harder and more honorable route to sell your labor - whether physical or mental - instead of your body. I know others differ, but that's my opinion. While I wouldn't want the choice to do sex work taken away from people - I want society to be free - privately, I don't consider working your body to be anything like as impressive as working your mind. And what about the implications for her future? What about safety? It's all under her real name. Anyone could find her. IG has her name and location splashed about, and her family members. It wouldn't be hard to figure out where she lives.

Venting here because I'm keeping my mouth shut in real life!

I understand your disappointment and think that I would be too if it was someone I watched grow up. It is easy to sit and make statements about freedom and empowerment when it is someone you don't know.

I was thinking about this recently as someone I went to school with announced she was going to go into... Dancing. She is open about her past as a sex worker. She was feeling she had debts and just couldn't sustain the three jobs she was working to barely keep up on current bills plus payments on the debt. She made it through the interview and only danced a couple of nights. She did not find it empowering. She hates doing up her makeup just so and having to put on a show. I was glad she felt she could quit when it wasn't something she was comfortable with.

 

[kenny]

To put it another way, she's someone I care about. If it was someone you knew and cared about, you might be less neutral, is what I'm saying.

Nope.

 

[Jambalaya]

It is easy to sit and make statements about freedom and empowerment when it is someone you don't know.

Exactly!

She was feeling she had debts and just couldn't sustain the three jobs she was working to barely keep up on current bills plus payments on the debt.

You know, there's always the option to declare bankruptcy. At least bankruptcy disappears from your record after a few years, unlike any online sex work, which is online forever. Especially as people apparently screenshot from your paid-for onlyfans stuff and circulate it online.

I think if I was in the situation you describe above, I'd rather declare bankruptcy than turn to sex work. Even if I made a lot of money, I do wonder what it would do to me in the medium and longterm, to sell my body like that.

 

[Jambalaya]

Nope.

Sooo, no concerns about safety, psychological effects, unintended consequences for her future, of this person that you hypothetically care about?

 

[peacechick]

I am active on Twitter and friends with a lot of young women there. And yep they know about OnlyFans and joke about starting an account when they need money, but no one’s actually serious. So personally I don’t think there is a radical shift in terms of whether it’s empowering or conventionally acceptable to be a sex worker.

However, I do see a move towards more transparency. Whereas women used to work in strip clubs secretly, now they are more open about their work and their rights. Which isn’t a bad thing. But of course, I wouldn’t want anyone I love to do this. Because it comes with a lot of risks, especially to safety because of stalkers. Which is why I do think you are right to be concerned for her even though she is an adult. But the time for intervention has long passed probably, since her history shows she was groomed as a minor. That experience influenced her development and judgement in ways that probably you cannot really change now. Rather than process what happened to her, she may have doubled down on it. And I’ll just stop here since I’m not any kind of qualified professional.

 

[Lookinagain]

I would be devastated and horrified if my adult daughter did something like this. I don't think I'd want to know.

It is also probably not safe, especially since she is using her real name.

 

[kenny]

Sooo, no concerns about safety, psychological effects, unintended consequences for her future, of this person that you hypothetically care about?

Not your job do her work.

 

[Jambalaya]

Not your job do her work.

And whose work is it to pick up the pieces when it all goes wrong?

 

[Cerulean]

@kenny I get that attitude when it’s not your family.

Legally, there is no recourse. Ethically, that’s another story.

The benefit of a family unit is that sometimes older generations can impart wisdom on younger ones.

It’s complicated to be a woman - always has been. (It’s complicated to be a person but I’m narrowing the scope)

Things have shifted with technology and many young women do not think about the long term impact of their choices because they don’t have the luxury of hindsight. I’d hope that my mother, or aunt, or cousin who had experienced negative results of poor decision making might warn me before I did something risky.

I’m certain that my mother in particular has prevented serious harm from coming my way and helped me make better choices to protect myself. For her to be totally hands off would have been utterly irresponsible as a role model and parent

 

[TooPatient]

@kenny I get that attitude when it’s not your family.

Legally, there is no recourse. Ethically, that’s another story.

The benefit of a family unit is that sometimes older generations can impart wisdom on younger ones.

It’s complicated to be a woman - always has been. (It’s complicated to be a person but I’m narrowing the scope)

Things have shifted with technology and many young women do not think about the long term impact of their choices because they don’t have the luxury of hindsight. I’d hope that my mother, or aunt, or cousin who had experienced negative results of poor decision making might warn me before I did something risky.

I’m certain that my mother in particular has prevented serious harm from coming my way and helped me make better choices to protect myself. For her to be totally hands off would have been utterly irresponsible as a role model and parent

I'm clearly not Kenny, but wanted to point out that not all parents and families are supportive or offer any kind of good guidance in life. Sadly, many are totally hands off or worse. I am watching a situation now where the kids are growing up with parents modeling extremely bad decisions and guiding two kids who are smart and could have done anything they wanted to towards futures of discomfort and poverty.

 

[Jambalaya]

I don’t find it empowering to make profit off of the male gaze in this way

In general terms on this topic, I'm conflicted. Women like Pamela Anderson have made an absolute fortune off the male gaze, and I've always liked that, because I kind of like seeing a woman turn the tables and make money from all that leering. However, PA didn't actually strip or do pawn. In one way, I support all sex work because I like seeing women exploit men's lust as payback for the way women have always been exploited for their bodies. Tit for tat!

On the other hand, I'm horrified by sex work and think that instimacy is best expressed within a loving relationship.

And there are very real concerns about safety and about real-world consequences. There are stories of women who have lost their day jobs because of their onlyfans.com work, even though one had nothing to do with the other.

How is my GD going to feel the day she meets a man she really, really likes, and wants to make a good impression with his parents, say? Or is up for her dream job? We all know that employers research candidates. And that's if she gets out of this phase of her life intact instead of getting murdered by some perverted weirdo!!! *head in hands*

 

[Cerulean]

I'm clearly not Kenny, but wanted to point out that not all parents and families are supportive or offer any kind of good guidance in life. Sadly, many are totally hands off or worse. I am watching a situation now where the kids are growing up with parents modeling extremely bad decisions and guiding two kids who are smart and could have done anything they wanted to towards futures of discomfort and poverty.

Yes I think sadly you are very right. I like to think that people who are empathetic, or have the means to provide support should.

Some people are so ill equipped to take care of themselves, that they are terrible parents because they just aren’t capable.

I am guessing that most people on this forum have some ability to provide support (ie likely have disposable income, are literate, etc..) but you never know.

I just think to be willfully hands off when you do know better sucks! But people have their reasons I’m sure…

 

[Cerulean]

In general terms on this topic, I'm conflicted. Women like Pamela Anderson have made an absolute fortune off the male gaze, and I've always liked that, because I kind of like seeing a woman turn the tables and make money from all that leering. However, PA didn't actually strip or do pawn. In one way, I support all sex work because I like seeing women exploit men's lust as payback for the way women have always been exploited for their bodies. Tit for tat!

On the other hand, I'm horrified by sex work and think that instimacy is best expressed within a loving relationship.

And there are very real concerns about safety and about real-world consequences. There are stories of women who have lost their day jobs because of their onlyfans.com work, even though one had nothing to do with the other.

How is my GD going to feel the day she meets a man she really, really likes, and wants to make a good impression with his parents, say? Or is up for her dream job? We all know that employers research candidates. And that's if she gets out of this phase of her life intact instead of getting murdered by some perverted weirdo!!! *head in hands*

I get that feeling of conflict. It feels soooooo case by case. Some women have agency and choice, some don’t. Exploitation of women has been the default for so long, that I will reserve judgement. And because it still happens so frequently, I am even less willing to throw my arms up and sing “but EMPOWERMENT, my sisters!!!!”

I’m not innately horrified by sex work. But it’s a very fuzzy, grey line between feeling empowered and being taken advantage of. And yes I do think that most sex workers are more vulnerable to predation, even if they went into with the right mindset. But many don’t.

I do really understand your concern and I’m very sorry. My cousin posted a very sexy photo of herself on social media (when she was a minor) and I was disturbed then and talked to her about it. This has to be much worse.

 

[TooPatient]

In general terms on this topic, I'm conflicted. Women like Pamela Anderson have made an absolute fortune off the male gaze, and I've always liked that, because I kind of like seeing a woman turn the tables and make money from all that leering. However, PA didn't actually strip or do pawn. In one way, I support all sex work because I like seeing women exploit men's lust as payback for the way women have always been exploited for their bodies. Tit for tat!

On the other hand, I'm horrified by sex work and think that instimacy is best expressed within a loving relationship.

And there are very real concerns about safety and about real-world consequences. There are stories of women who have lost their day jobs because of their onlyfans.com work, even though one had nothing to do with the other.

How is my GD going to feel the day she meets a man she really, really likes, and wants to make a good impression with his parents, say? Or is up for her dream job? We all know that employers research candidates. And that's if she gets out of this phase of her life intact instead of getting murdered by some perverted weirdo!!! *head in hands*

The person I was in school with has lost friends and jobs over her past. A recent boyfriend used it as a way to manipulate and control her. He told her employer about her past sex work and she lost a good job. I also think it has to do with her difficulty having relationships with nice guys. Hearing she used to have sex for money is not something a lot want to hear. I hate to see her struggling to make a good life for her and her son. She is trying so hard and this past keeps knocking her back down.

 

[rosethorn]

Seems to me our work and effort would be better spent making sure women and girls are safe in all circumstances rather than judging them because of the things men might do to them.

Sex work isn’t that different from sports and acting.

I hope your GD feels safe, empowered, and has only good experiences. For the women and girls who aren’t so lucky, I hope the police believe them and see them as worth helping, and that the men who make sex work dangerous are held accountable.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Consenting adult.
I stop right there.

If I had Kenny's body I would make some good money.

 

[qubitasaurus]

Yeah that website sounds manipulative. It's not safe for her real instagram account and real name to be attached to her explicit videos. And for the website to set that up as 'drive business to our site using your real instagram as a lure/advertising satellite' is pretty underhanded. It will hurt all the tallent down the track, when someone comes to see whether they can be solicited in real life -- I think this will be a nightmare, as i can't see how the police will be equipped to handle it and the close family (especially siblings) could also get targeted.

Also there's a good point above about employment and relationships, even years after she stops the pictures will always surface rather quickly under Google search. Its not clear to me if she owns the content she uploads, and has the right to entirely remove it (especially if she gets talent spoted) and even if she does people will have cross linked it elsewhere and getting it taken down would be a nightmare.

I wouldn't be ok with my child or someone I loved doing this. At the same time I can't stand against it, I'm not morally apposed to it and I think the stigma isnt helping-- it's making it harder to have an open discussion about it and even check if they're OK. I guess I'd just be worried personally.

 

[Jambalaya]

Sex work isn’t that different from sports and acting.

I disagree with that, because in those two things you're selling a talent that you've worked hard to cultivate and be good at. There's nothing to be proud of in selling your body.