GIA''s amazing new patent

[adamasgem]

Date: 2/4/2007 2:52:02 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
It would help to know which are the naturals - they may not be flat and measurements could vary.

Heree are the composite girdle profile created from DC STL''s from the 5 DMC files rhino gave me, using a 10 degree girdle discrimination profile...

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 2/4/2007 3:28:33 AM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 2/4/2007 2:52:02 AM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
It would help to know which are the naturals - they may not be flat and measurements could vary.

Heree are the composite girdle profile created from DC STL's from the 5 DMC files rhino gave me, using a 10 degree girdle discrimination profile...

Same processing on two Sarin scans kindly supplied by Rhino on the same stone for comparison..
Note that the zero thickness girdle facet is phase shifted about 15 degrees or so from the first to second scan..

If you get a chance Rhino, maybe a few OGI scans are in order, if they have fixed the STL problem with 10000+ STL's

 

[adamasgem]

All this goes to show that Azimuth phasing is necessary so that one can compare like facets to automatically generate run to run statistics on a single machine or machine to machine statistics.

 

[strmrdr]

There is a huge difference between the sarin and helium girdle profiles.
One thing this is telling me that sarin has a long way to go yet.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 2/4/2007 2:52:06 PM
Author: strmrdr
There is a huge difference between the sarin and helium girdle profiles.
One thing this is telling me that sarin has a long way to go yet.

You might be correct there Storm.
It may have something to do with what I think Sarin is doing regarding a possible assumption that all grdle facet planes are perpendicular to the table. I'll have to check the STL files from the SRN scan and will ammend this post based on what I see.

Ammendment: Based on looking at ASC files (GemCad) files generated from SRN (Sarin) files imported to DC, compared to ASC files generated form DMC (Helium) scans, this appears to be generically the case.

Sarin appears to consider ALL the girdle facets essentially perpendicular to the table as opposed to the Helium scans. Sarin girdles are generally within 0.05 degrees of perpendicularity where Helium girdles vary over a full degree of perpendicularity give or take.


PS: Also I don't know if Rhino got the new Sarin update yet..

 

[adamasgem]

Here is a pdf file substantiating my last posts comments regarding my guestimate of Sarin methodology, there are two ASC files created from the two SRN files and two ASC files at the end created from two of the DMC files... Km01 and Km02

The first column of the sets (after the "a" ) is the tilt with respect to the table, then the distance from the origin, then the azimuth of the facet, for those who are unfamiliar with the GEMCAD format..

The ASC file tilts around 90 or -89.9x degrees are those of the girdle facets...

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 2/4/2007 2:52:06 PM
Author: strmrdr
There is a huge difference between the sarin and helium girdle profiles.
One thing this is telling me that sarin has a long way to go yet.

The interesting ppart is, that try as I might, I couldn''t get a reasonable phasing of either of the two Sarin girdle profiles with any of the four helium profiles, using cut and paste methods.

The girdle profiles are based on 0 to 360 degee azimuths so they are all the same width, so I would expect a reasonable phasing of girdle widths, which I didn''t get.

Can anyone come up with a reasonable phasing? I was looking at the crown side, and then tried the pavilion sides, with no luck, to my satisfaction.

If labs (GIA) are basing grades on min-max data from the Sarin profiles I think there may be a problem that needs to be resolved.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/5/2007 1:55:33 AM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 2/4/2007 2:52:06 PM
Author: strmrdr
There is a huge difference between the sarin and helium girdle profiles.
One thing this is telling me that sarin has a long way to go yet.

The interesting ppart is, that try as I might, I couldn''t get a reasonable phasing of either of the two Sarin girdle profiles with any of the four helium profiles, using cut and paste methods.

The girdle profiles are based on 0 to 360 degee azimuths so they are all the same width, so I would expect a reasonable phasing of girdle widths, which I didn''t get.

Can anyone come up with a reasonable phasing? I was looking at the crown side, and then tried the pavilion sides, with no luck, to my satisfaction.

If labs (GIA) are basing grades on min-max data from the Sarin profiles I think there may be a problem that needs to be resolved.

Do you mean "average" data?

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 2/5/2007 2:09:48 AM
Author: DiaGem

Date: 2/5/2007 1:55:33 AM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 2/4/2007 2:52:06 PM
Author: strmrdr
There is a huge difference between the sarin and helium girdle profiles.
One thing this is telling me that sarin has a long way to go yet.

The interesting ppart is, that try as I might, I couldn''t get a reasonable phasing of either of the two Sarin girdle profiles with any of the four helium profiles, using cut and paste methods.

The girdle profiles are based on 0 to 360 degee azimuths so they are all the same width, so I would expect a reasonable phasing of girdle widths, which I didn''t get.

Can anyone come up with a reasonable phasing? I was looking at the crown side, and then tried the pavilion sides, with no luck, to my satisfaction.

If labs (GIA) are basing grades on min-max data from the Sarin profiles I think there may be a problem that needs to be resolved.

Do you mean ''average'' data?

I ran DiamondCalc reports on the two srn files and the first two Helium scan, which I''ll post on the next 4 posts. Even though the scans appear different, the DC summary reports look remarkedly similar...

I''s SRN01

 

[adamasgem]

SRN02

 

[adamasgem]

Helium Km01

 

[adamasgem]

Helium Km02

 

[oldminer]

Marty and all;

Some very strong objections to the GIA Patent Application, based on existing approved US patents, have been filed. You just can''t ignore intellectual property rights in today''s world. These rights are of huge value and interested parties have a right to seek protection. It is a new day and age for the jewelry business.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/5/2007 2:11:48 PM
Author: oldminer
Marty and all;

Some very strong objections to the GIA Patent Application, based on existing approved US patents, have been filed. You just can''t ignore intellectual property rights in today''s world. These rights are of huge value and interested parties have a right to seek protection. It is a new day and age for the jewelry business.

Thanks for the update, "Music To My Ears"!!!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Is there somewhere you can read the objections?

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 2/5/2007 2:11:48 PM
Author: oldminer
Marty and all;

Some very strong objections to the GIA Patent Application, based on existing approved US patents, have been filed. You just can't ignore intellectual property rights in today's world. These rights are of huge value and interested parties have a right to seek protection. It is a new day and age for the jewelry business.

Donna Baker should immediately withdraw the Utility patent application and submit a Design Patent, which might be rejected because they already may have out their graphic in the public domain.

On second thought, maybe they should file a patent apllication on bad arithmetic

 

[adamasgem]

I don't think the PAIR program of the USPTO allows anyone other than the applicant to view all documants in the application file, unfortunately. Would be an interesting read. Perhaps Dave could post what he knows has been submitted. It wouldn't violate any rules that I know of.

 

[oldminer]

I don''t know if ImaGem would want to publish its objections to the application. I suppose these things are delicate subjects and really the process is to license the use of intellectual property rather than forbid its use. I have not read the objections, but it sounded as if there was going to be a substantive series of objections to several issues presented.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 2/5/2007 3:14:36 PM
Author: oldminer
I don't know if ImaGem would want to publish its objections to the application. I suppose these things are delicate subjects and really the process is to license the use of intellectual property rather than forbid its use. I have not read the objections, but it sounded as if there was going to be a substantive series of objections to several issues presented.

Dave.. I don't see anything to license..

1) In 1994 I had shown three view graphics with actual proportions in my software,a review published in JCK, following manual inputs to the program, which was prior to automatic scanners, to my knowledge
2) laboratories worldwide have been showing profile proportion diagrams with callouts on the exterior of the diagram since the late 1990's and the advent of optical scanners
3) The methodology of making sure diagrams are mathematically consistent, goes back to to at least 1994, with the publication of my original software.
4) Sarin, Helium, OGI, Imagem have all shown CORRECTLY proprotioned diagrams in their software, significantly prior to GIA application date.

GIA could file a Design patent on their specific graphic (with internal callouts) and maybe a Utility patent on how to make thing mathematically inconsistent, per their example in the present application.

And of course, their new rounding methodology, that is worth money becuase it makes things look better.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/5/2007 3:14:36 PM
Author: oldminer
I don''t know if ImaGem would want to publish its objections to the application. I suppose these things are delicate subjects and really the process is to license the use of intellectual property rather than forbid its use. I have not read the objections, but it sounded as if there was going to be a substantive series of objections to several issues presented.

What can anyone license?...., an application???

 

[Rhino]

Marty: Yep... the latest updates applied.

Serg: Its an estate diamond we have here. I did steam clean the stone thoroughly before scanning it but when I return to the store on Thursday evening I''ll recheck the stone to make sure there was no residue on it. Of the 5 models KM01-03 were ran on "Accuracy" (400 steps) and 2 KM04-5 were ran on "High Accuracy" (800 steps).

I''ve been thinking about the OGI issue (and Marty I''ll forward you stl files from it on the same stone for comparison) but in the past our OGI used to be virtually dead on with AGS'' Sarin measurements. That was a few versions and 2 hardware upgrades ago though. I''m going to do a recalibration of it when I get up there and see if it corrects its angle accuracy.

Off to go work off some of those centroids that have been attaching themselves to my gleuteus maximus.

 

[Serg]

Date: 2/6/2007 11:07:46 AM
Author: Rhino
Marty: Yep... the latest updates applied.

Serg: Its an estate diamond we have here. I did steam clean the stone thoroughly before scanning it but when I return to the store on Thursday evening I''ll recheck the stone to make sure there was no residue on it. Of the 5 models KM01-03 were ran on ''Accuracy'' (400 steps) and 2 KM04-5 were ran on ''High Accuracy'' (800 steps).

I''ve been thinking about the OGI issue (and Marty I''ll forward you stl files from it on the same stone for comparison) but in the past our OGI used to be virtually dead on with AGS'' Sarin measurements. That was a few versions and 2 hardware upgrades ago though. I''m going to do a recalibration of it when I get up there and see if it corrects its angle accuracy.

Off to go work off some of those centroids that have been attaching themselves to my gleuteus maximus.

Hi Rhino,
Thanks for information
Please send these 5 mmd to my email. I want find the reason of variation angle.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 2/6/2007 1:07:12 PM
Author: Serg

Date: 2/6/2007 11:07:46 AM
Author: Rhino
Marty: Yep... the latest updates applied.

Serg: Its an estate diamond we have here. I did steam clean the stone thoroughly before scanning it but when I return to the store on Thursday evening I''ll recheck the stone to make sure there was no residue on it. Of the 5 models KM01-03 were ran on ''Accuracy'' (400 steps) and 2 KM04-5 were ran on ''High Accuracy'' (800 steps).

I''ve been thinking about the OGI issue (and Marty I''ll forward you stl files from it on the same stone for comparison) but in the past our OGI used to be virtually dead on with AGS'' Sarin measurements. That was a few versions and 2 hardware upgrades ago though. I''m going to do a recalibration of it when I get up there and see if it corrects its angle accuracy.

Off to go work off some of those centroids that have been attaching themselves to my gleuteus maximus.

Hi Rhino,
Thanks for information
Please send these 5 mmd to my email. I want find the reason of variation angle.

Serg..
I just sent you the 5 DMC and 2 SRN files that Jonathon sent me that I used for the analysis..
The DMC files were converted to STL''s using DiamondCalc so that I could process them..

Marty
PS I''m still impressed.. Maybe the reason for the phase variation has to do with the large natural cutting the girdle plane..

 

[Serg]

Date: 2/6/2007 2:15:46 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 2/6/2007 1:07:12 PM
Author: Serg

Date: 2/6/2007 11:07:46 AM
Author: Rhino
Marty: Yep... the latest updates applied.

Serg: Its an estate diamond we have here. I did steam clean the stone thoroughly before scanning it but when I return to the store on Thursday evening I''ll recheck the stone to make sure there was no residue on it. Of the 5 models KM01-03 were ran on ''Accuracy'' (400 steps) and 2 KM04-5 were ran on ''High Accuracy'' (800 steps).

I''ve been thinking about the OGI issue (and Marty I''ll forward you stl files from it on the same stone for comparison) but in the past our OGI used to be virtually dead on with AGS'' Sarin measurements. That was a few versions and 2 hardware upgrades ago though. I''m going to do a recalibration of it when I get up there and see if it corrects its angle accuracy.

Off to go work off some of those centroids that have been attaching themselves to my gleuteus maximus.

Hi Rhino,
Thanks for information
Please send these 5 mmd to my email. I want find the reason of variation angle.

Serg..
I just sent you the 5 DMC and 2 SRN files that Jonathon sent me that I used for the analysis..
The DMC files were converted to STL''s using DiamondCalc so that I could process them..

Marty
PS I''m still impressed.. Maybe the reason for the phase variation has to do with the large natural cutting the girdle plane..

Marty,
I need mmd from Rhino with source data( contours)
Btw. I did not receive any letters from you. Do you use @next.msu.ru or @octoNus.com?
NExt.msu,ru does nor work more

 

[Rhino]

Date: 2/6/2007 3:05:53 PM
Author: Serg

Date: 2/6/2007 2:15:46 PM
Author: adamasgem

Date: 2/6/2007 1:07:12 PM
Author: Serg

Date: 2/6/2007 11:07:46 AM
Author: Rhino
Marty: Yep... the latest updates applied.

Serg: Its an estate diamond we have here. I did steam clean the stone thoroughly before scanning it but when I return to the store on Thursday evening I''ll recheck the stone to make sure there was no residue on it. Of the 5 models KM01-03 were ran on ''Accuracy'' (400 steps) and 2 KM04-5 were ran on ''High Accuracy'' (800 steps).

I''ve been thinking about the OGI issue (and Marty I''ll forward you stl files from it on the same stone for comparison) but in the past our OGI used to be virtually dead on with AGS'' Sarin measurements. That was a few versions and 2 hardware upgrades ago though. I''m going to do a recalibration of it when I get up there and see if it corrects its angle accuracy.

Off to go work off some of those centroids that have been attaching themselves to my gleuteus maximus.

Hi Rhino,
Thanks for information
Please send these 5 mmd to my email. I want find the reason of variation angle.

Serg..
I just sent you the 5 DMC and 2 SRN files that Jonathon sent me that I used for the analysis..
The DMC files were converted to STL''s using DiamondCalc so that I could process them..

Marty
PS I''m still impressed.. Maybe the reason for the phase variation has to do with the large natural cutting the girdle plane..

Marty,
I need mmd from Rhino with source data( contours)
Btw. I did not receive any letters from you. Do you use @next.msu.ru or @octoNus.com?
NExt.msu,ru does nor work more

I''ll should have em up to ya no later than Thursday evening Serg.

 

[adamasgem]

Date: 2/6/2007 3:05:53 PM
Author: Serg

Marty,
I need mmd from Rhino with source data( contours)
Btw. I did not receive any letters from you. Do you use @next.msu.ru or @octoNus.com?
NExt.msu,ru does nor work more

OK I changed my email to octonus.com.. I guessed that you missed a few I sent to the old address..