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GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best deal?

stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,083
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

IbrahimSS|1311012361|2971546 said:
I do feel the need to chime in here as a newbie consumer.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that there are all kinds of standards to diamonds. Even at the top certs GIA vs AGS there is this illustrious H&A awarded by AGS whereas GIA doesn't even recognize this. There are comments above that state things like I wish more consumers took the time out to educate themselves etc but the truth of the matter is diamonds are difficult. Not only because there are all different standards but also because much of it is personal.

AGS do not grade if a stone is H&A or not.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

IbrahimSS|1311012361|2971546 said:
I do feel the need to chime in here as a newbie consumer.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that there are all kinds of standards to diamonds. Even at the top certs GIA vs AGS there is this illustrious H&A awarded by AGS whereas GIA doesn't even recognize this. There are comments above that state things like I wish more consumers took the time out to educate themselves etc but the truth of the matter is diamonds are difficult. Not only because there are all different standards but also because much of it is personal.

Beyond that it's difficult for a consumer with a full time job outside of this to really understand diamonds and make a proper decision. It's a serious *TIME*, not just money, commitment to choose a diamond. In a climate like this one as well where diamond prices are skyrocketing and every second you don't move costs you a 10-20% increase, you're forced to pull the trigger and jump on something.

Moreover, people aren't aware of what tools, like this forum, they have to learn about diamonds an to get objective opinions. It seems to me that most in the vendors like this and want to keep people in the dark as it's advantageous to them. This just creates a general distrust and most people just use someone a "friend' has used in the past or some "reputable" name.

I bought my diamond and can tell you I still don't understand the details of it all after researching it for quite a while. There are those that argue H&A are the ultimate and those that argue this supposed "ideal" cut actually reduces the perceived size of the diamond. This stuff is confusing and takes people years to become experts when they are trained so just imagine what it's like for us folks who just want to buy an engagement ring and move on with life. It's (hopefully) a one time purchase for someone like me and proper education just isn't possible with the number of variables therefore the abundant permutations.

This might be heresy to say here but I simply don't care about diamonds nor understand what attracts people to them. My goal is to just get the purchase over with without being taken for a ride thereby making the lady friend happy and as they say "happy wife, happy life". I don't think I'm that much different than the average man buying a ring in that way. The big difference between me and other men in my situation is I was able to leverage the wisdom of the masses through this forum and the amazing people who help those like me day to day by replying to our ignorant questions.
No, that’s not heresy. It’s not even unusual. 90%+ of the engagement diamond business happens at specialty jewelry stores where the customer neither asks for nor receives any relevant education. That’s ok. Most go away happy and get along with their lives. Actually, most of the things you buy are this way. Understanding the minutia about how your car works and what makes one better or even different from another is a trip down the rabbit hole that can suck up your whole life if you let it. Some people do, and I dare say they have better cars for less money, but the rest of us make out just fine and, at the end of the day, my car gets me to work and I’m not trying to impress the car gurus with it. The same happens with diamonds. It’s just a rock. None of this stuf matters unless you want it to. There is nothing ‘better’ about h&a patterning, or VVS or D color unless YOU count it as better.

The forum here is mostly a discussion amongst people who are REALLY into diamonds and who don’t like the route of going to the mall, pulling out the credit card, and calling it done. There’s nothing wrong with not being among them. They’re looking for better merchandise, better prices, and better service, and they’re willing to devote quite a bit of effort and brainpower to do that. Again, there’s nothing wrong with not being part of that group. You’re looking for a fast and relatively painless deal that will get the job done. You and 90% of the rest of the country agree. It’s a big world. Both groups can live in peace and be happy with their selections and their reasons for it.

How about this; YOU now have an interesting role to play, should you choose to accept it. As you point out, you have a unique position to a LOT of the people asking questions and I contend that it's quite valuable. There are middle ground choices between the 'no thought' approach and the full bore analysis that gets talked about here. Stick around and add your own wisdom, even if only occasionally (being a Pricescope guru can get extremely time consuming if you let it). You are under no obligation at all to drink the koolaid and, believe it or not, we LIKE heretics, as long as they mind their manners. :saint:
 

IbrahimSS

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

I have been... I'm trying to stay active instead of being one of those fly by night forum joiners so I can help folks out based on what I learned. It's my way of paying back the help I've received. We'll see how long I last at it but for now I'll try my best.
 

IbrahimSS

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
82
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Stone-cold11|1311014307|2971581 said:
AGS do not grade if a stone is H&A or not.
From my fairly ignorant perspective that's all the light performance report is about. You might argue otherwise.

Here's a link to that ideal diamonds looking smaller article:
http://www.certified-gems.com/idealcut_diamonds.htm
 

stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
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Messages
14,083
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

IbrahimSS said:
Stone-cold11|1311014307|2971581 said:
AGS do not grade if a stone is H&A or not.
From my fairly ignorant perspective that's all the light performance report is about. You might argue otherwise.

Here's a link to that ideal diamonds looking smaller article:
http://www.certified-gems.com/idealcut_diamonds.htm

No. H&A is about optical symm. Light performance map is optical performance. You can have one and not the other, having one those not automatically leads to the other.
 

Dreamer_D

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Joined
Dec 16, 2007
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25,777
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

IbrahimSS|1311021665|2971653 said:
I have been... I'm trying to stay active instead of being one of those fly by night forum joiners so I can help folks out based on what I learned. It's my way of paying back the help I've received. We'll see how long I last at it but for now I'll try my best.

Stick around!

For what its worth, Ibrahim, my goal as a PS "guru" (haha) is not to push the minutia, but help consumers get the best value for their money and make educated choices, and also to emphasize the importance of good cut... not necessarily "best-of-the-best" cut if the consumer does not want that, but I would like consumers to be able to make the decision from a place of education, rather than blindly. I don't think that position is that far removed from what you yourself support. 8)
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

IbrahimSS- I agree with Dreamer- Stick around!!!
 

skphotoimages

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
188
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

I have a EGL USA diamond with a clarity grading of VS2. It has one tiny feather on the pavillion side right by the girldle. It really can only be seen unmounted, upside down, with a 30x loupe, Thats it. I have seen SOOO many GIA reports that were VS1 or even VVS2's and they are so much more included than my diamond. Maybe I got lucky. Now color..thats questionable. Mine is and I, but I suspect after seeing in unmounted and upside down it could be a J. Maybe. At least it faces up white as could be :)
 

IbrahimSS

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

I do find it bizarre that an inclusion that is seemingly undetectable to the human eye like the "white" ones, whatever that means, as well as stones with inclusions in places that you wouldn't possibly notice wearing it can be put in worse clarity categories than others. This is where I think trusted dealers become very useful. They can tell you if it's prongable etc. But I only learned that from reading this site.
 

mededu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jul 19, 2011
Messages
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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Some dealers sell “good-grade” diamonds at an incredible low price, but it's too good to be true.

One CA dealer said his grading comes from “an independent appraiser”. Another eBay dealer at NYC admitted that the AGI (not GIA) grading he uses could be 3 levels lower than the GIA grades.
 
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