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GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best deal?

Liberty Diamonds

Rough_Rock
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As a GIA graduate gemologist and Diamond buyer for my family business, we recently sent in the same diamond to each of the three major Labs sold online. Below are the results for the same "Certified" Diamond sent to all three Labs...

EGL International Ideal 1.50ct G VS2 + XXX, average market price $10500, Rapaport $10,500 per carat

EGL USA Ideal + 1.50 I VS2 XXX, average market price $9400, Rapaport $7800 per carat

GIA 1.50ct K SI1 with Very Good cut, symmetry and polish, average market value $6250, Rapaport $5200 per carat

This is the same diamond with three grading standards from all three major labs! Is this ethical, is it legal, do you really get what you pay for? This is an open debate in the jewelry industry as they are all considered "Certified" Diamonds...
 

Amys Bling

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

This discussion takes place everytime someone on the forum asks for advice on an EGL graded stone, as "we" know that the labs are not consistent with each other and GIA is stricter.
 

druidtime

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Very interesting. Does nothing but solidify and add evidence to our belief in the variation of grading among labs.

Ethical? Legal? On the part of the labs, yes. In the jewelers' case though, like all things, things can be used for good or bad purposes, it just depends on the person using it.

It can be easy to con a customer into representing market value of the stone as a GIA graded stone, but sell them a EGL/IGI etc stone instead. It would still be a certified diamond per se, but one not held to the same standards as represented, which would of course be cheaper to source.

As always, Buyer Beware! Buyers should carefully take note of what certifications their potential diamond has, including from what lab. A smart buyer also checks to have a generous return policy in case it doesnt live up to expectations.

But I'll tell you, all of this makes PS an invaluable resource for these high dollar purchases!

Thanks for sharing your research with the community.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Awesome example.

Can you post the lab reports please so we can see them?
 

100

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

I am going to say this and I am sure I will be put on fire by some people but whatever...

Any vendor that sell EGL graded diamonds is out there to mislead the buyers. How?

EGL grading gives the consumers false sense of what they get from the diamond such as higher color, clarity, and cut.
Of course high color, clarity, and cut command premium price.
And then the seller tell the buyer, I like you, so I am giving you are 20% discount... Buyer very happy and buy the diamond for either at a higher cost or similar cost to the GIA graded diamond, or the same in the example from the OP.

So, some people will say so what then? Buyer ended up paying the same price for the same stone, just different certs. Buyer not loosing out on anything.

Well, yes and no.

Yes for "probably" not over paid after the "discount".
No for believed in bought something at G color but really a K color? SI1 clarity instead of VS2? Or VG cut instead of EXEXEX

So who ended up as the winner? Seller of course, the seller sold the stone. If the seller only got the GIA cert for this particular diamond mentioned, the buyer probably will not buy it as the color, clarity "might" be too low for them. Yes yes, some will say that the buyer probably happy with how the stone look. That could probably true. But then I am sure some buyers are only buying the diamond based on the grading of the color or clarity, and outright rejects anything that's not within their acceptable requirements.
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Liberty Diamonds|1308275289|2947963 said:
As a GIA graduate gemologist and Diamond buyer for my family business, we recently sent in the same diamond to each of the three major Labs sold online. Below are the results for the same "Certified" Diamond sent to all three Labs...

EGL International Ideal 1.50ct G VS2 + XXX, average market price $10500, Rapaport $10,500 per carat

EGL USA Ideal + 1.50 I VS2 XXX, average market price $9400, Rapaport $7800 per carat

GIA 1.50ct K SI1 with Very Good cut, symmetry and polish, average market value $6250, Rapaport $5200 per carat

This is the same diamond with three grading standards from all three major labs! Is this ethical, is it legal, do you really get what you pay for? This is an open debate in the jewelry industry as they are all considered "Certified" Diamonds...
Hi All,
Liberty, I applaud you for bringing this to light ( again) but I really must disagree with the statement in bold for a number of reasons.
1) There is no "debate" in the jewelry industry. Anyone seriously in the diamond business knows the results you got are typical- what debate? Sad to say but there are many cases of people not in the industry debating this- but that's like the debate about the moon being made of Swiss cheese.
2) If we're speaking of knowledgeable diamond traders, they do NOT consider any stone "certified"- in fact, GIA strongly objects to the term at all- because of the implications of the word. GIA does NOT guarantee or "certify" their grading. Traders know this all too well.

100 said:
I am going to say this and I am sure I will be put on fire by some people but whatever...

Any vendor that sell EGL graded diamonds is out there to mislead the buyers. How?

...snip
100- I think your initial statement is coming from the right place- but it's a little too harsh. There's nothing inherently "wrong" with a diamond simply because it's been graded by EGL.
If the seller is knowledgeable, and in a position to accurately grade the diamond, and informs the buyer of the discrepancy with the report, it can be just fine.
Generally speaking, I would never consider showing certain type of stones without GIA or AGSL.
Without a GIA report, I would never consider higher quality stones- or round diamonds where the cut grade makes a huge difference.
But as an example, a $10,000 2ct fancy shape, graded J/VS by EGL that might, in reality, be an M/SI2 - but could still be well worth the $10k might be a very good buy- IF the seller explains to the buyer what they're getting
 

denverappraiser

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Legal and ethical? For whom? The labs are on rock solid footing. Someone asked for their opinion and they gave it. You can ask an opinion of ANYONE and they can give it. Unless they’re deliberately lying, no foul has been committed and even if they’re lying, the aggrieved party is their client, not some downstream consumer. The labs are not all using the same grading scales. Heck, they don’t even CLAIM to be using the same grading scales. That perhaps makes some of them useless but I don’t see anything unethical about it. Their customers are all diamond professionals and in most cases there’s a ‘client agreement’ before you can do business with them that clearly spells out that their opinion means bupkis. GIA’s is a treatise in legalese that boggles the mind and you have to re-agree to it every year if you want to remain a client.

It’s much more dicey for the retailers. As a buyer, they are expected to be experts. They would be hard pressed to argue that their supplier ripped them off by selling them an EGLI/G/VS2 as long as that’s what it is and they actually got the goods. It’s reasonable to expect a professional dealer to be an educated shopper and it’s reasonable to expect that an educated shopper should understand that EGLI/G/VS2 might very well mean GIA/K/SI1. It’s when an educated seller is selling to an uneducated consumer that it gets tricky and the FTC has quite a bit to say about this kind of transaction. Most retailers present themselves as experts. Is it reasonable to expect a consumer to understand that G might mean K, that ‘certified’ means nothing, and that XXX exists in the eye of the beholder? Maybe, but I’m less than certain. As far as I know this hasn’t been tested in court (yet) but the defense that they are just selling things the way their supplier provided them strikes me as weak, as is the defense that they didn't know. The supplier didn’t make any representations to the buyer, the retailer did.

Consumers deserve a large part of the blame here although I wouldn’t call it unethical. It’s just stupid. There is a steady demand for stones that SOMEONE will call a particular grade and there is remarkably little concern over who that someone is. That’s just silly on it’s face. The purpose of a lab grading is to reinforce your trust in the jeweler but people want it to be a substitute for that trust. That's a nearly guaranteed failure in a trust based industry like jewelry. People can buy whatever they want, including a deeply discounted D/IF that’s been graded by the local gravel pit on their own grading scale, but they’re completely out of line to then object that someone else, like GIA, won’t call it a D/IF on their scale. If you want a GIA graded stone, buy a GIA graded stone or submit it to the lab yourself or through your own agent. Don’t buy something cheaper from the fishmarket and gemlab and assume that it’ll be the same thing.

The solution is harder still. Should the state be in the diamond grading business? How about the business of licensing diamond graders or grading labs? If other industries are any example, that’s going to drive up the price of diamonds and, frankly, I doubt it’ll improve the state of grading. Our scales are just too sloppy by their nature and completely redesigning the way diamonds are bought and sold is a Herculean task. On Pricescope, 2 of the labs you chose are routinely slammed in this forum as unreliable and have been for years but the majority of the stones in the database continue to be offered with those very pedigrees. What does this tell you? They sell. PS could, if they wanted, forbid their dealers to list anything other than GIA and AGSL graded stones if they wanted but what would that really do? Business would move from PS to their competitors who are less picky, the database would have half as many stones, the value of advertising here would drop, and the revenue to the owners would drop along with it. Maybe that would be good, it would certainly make it easier to find stones without paying much attention, but is that really benefiting the consuming public? I have my doubts. Consumer protection is the goal here but the consumers have a certain amount of obligation to pursue their own best interest as well. You can lead a horse to water but you can’t make him drink. If there’s one overwhelming lesson to be learned from this forum it’s that it helps to pay attention. To paraphrase Martha Stewart, that’s a good thing. If more people did it, this would be FAR less of a problem.
 

Liberty Diamonds

Rough_Rock
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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

As you can tell I am not a big time PS'r yet! Though I feel as a diamond buyer for over 12 years, and growing up in the business I have a lot of knowledge to offer. Not to mention I have an office on Hill st, and literally loupe 100's of diamonds a week. As well my father is a diamond cutter by trade. I love what I do and I truly love my diamonds.

Attached is the GIA and EGL International reports. The EGL USA was a pre-grade and I did not print the Certificate

I bought this diamond mainly because it has a red garnet inclusion under the star facet, which is really uncommon! Cause of that I don't want to sell the diamond as much as use it to prove my point that EGL USA or International is not accurate, compared to GIA. In turn EGL diamonds are typically overpriced due to their inconsistent standards.

I recently attended JCK and attended a panel discussion on the laboratory reports commonly offered to the trade. Pretty much to summarize the event, it is ultimately up to the consumer to educate themselves and the integrity of the dealer to disclose the differences of the certificates so his client can make the correct choice. As a dealer with integrity I would never recommend purchasing a diamond that is mis-graded as it is not fair to the client, especially when they learn the truth when it's time to up-grade or sell there diamond. Karma baby!

The term "Certified" is commonly used by the consumer who has not spent hours online researching diamonds, but an average Joe who just wants a good deal and thinks a diamond is a diamond. For example one goes to a Mall store and sees a 1.50ct G VS2 GIA XXX for $19500, and than goes online and see's a 1.50ct G VS2 "Certified" (regardless what lab) for $6500. What is going through his mind? Probably the fact that he ain't going to be buying from that mall store and he just figured out that he can save some serious money.
So know he doesn't trust the mall store, who he thinks is over charging him more than the value of his car! All he has to rely on is his gut instinct and if he does a little research he might realize why their is a large discrepancy in pricing from the two vendors.

Seriously though, does the average consumer take the time to educate themselves on this purchase, or go with their instincts. PS is an amazing forum with incredibly useful information. Though as someone who loves diamonds I do wish that more would educate themselves before they make one of the more important purchases of their lifetime. Truly what purchase signifies such a bond than a diamond.

GIA151.jpg

EGL151.jpg
 

denverappraiser

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Troy,

Thanks. Would you please also post a scan of the report form EGL-USA?
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Wow, Troy! This is really helpful! We try to explain to people coming here for comments on EGL stones that they are not getting what they think they are getting, and this thread will be extremely helpful to prove that point!
 

Liberty Diamonds

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Thanks for the feedback... The EGL USA is a pre-grade and I did not order the certificate yet. Though I attached pictures of the diamond that is graded by all three labs...

Also as a diamond buyer I have come across a few wholesale dealers in the US, that duel certify there diamonds with GIA and one of the EGL certificates. This way they can post the same diamond twice with two different prices. As the diamond is priced according to the market value of the grades they received, and in most cases the same diamond is more expensive with the inferior certificate.

pic1.jpg

pic4.jpg
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Thank you for posting the reports! Extremely helpful information. What is also helpful to see is that the retail prices are not equivalent for the different grades. This is often a misconceptions it seems that consumers have -- If I buy an EGL stone, even if it is lower a lower grade by GIA standards, I am still getting a deal (or at least paying the right price). This example clearly shows this is not the case.
 

Stone-cold11

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Dreamer_D|1308447466|2949259 said:
Thank you for posting the reports! Extremely helpful information. What is also helpful to see is that the retail prices are not equivalent for the different grades. This is often a misconceptions it seems that consumers have -- If I buy an EGL stone, even if it is lower a lower grade by GIA standards, I am still getting a deal (or at least paying the right price). This example clearly shows this is not the case.
Not really. The price of the GIA is based on a VG cut grade too. Not sure what price it will get if X cut grade, suspect it will be closer.
 

denverappraiser

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Liberty Diamonds|1308275289|2947963 said:
EGL International Ideal 1.50ct G VS2 + XXX, average market price $10500, Rapaport $10,500 per carat

EGL USA Ideal + 1.50 I VS2 XXX, average market price $9400, Rapaport $7800 per carat

GIA 1.50ct K SI1 with Very Good cut, symmetry and polish, average market value $6250, Rapaport $5200 per carat
Look at Troy's numbers again. The EGL branded stone is likely to be sold based on a discount from Rap. The cheapest EGLI/1.5x/G/VS2 in the database here that claims excellent cut is $8031. I didn't look at the stone and it may have an obvious issue but typical looks to be about $9-10k.

The most expensive GIA/K/S1 that doesn't claim xxx is $8149 and typical seems to be about $7k. Again, I haven't looked into any of those stones to see the details. I don't know Troy's company and I applaud them for being forthcoming with this example. I also don't know what they're going to do with it but I would expect this one to be peddled with the EGLI branding for most of the industry. They were betting when they bought all of these reports and, if that GIA had come back a J, or even better an I, which is surely what they were hoping for, it would be on the street as a GIA and they would have had a home run. I would venture to guess that it came to them with the EGLI from wherever they got it and they submitted it to GIA because they wanted to see an alternative grading. It was sent to EGL-USA last because they weren't happy with the results from GIA. This happens a LOT and it's one of the reasons the lab business is one of the best gigs going in diamonds right now. Major stones routinely will get 3 or more reports and downstream dealers will send them in AGAIN because they never got to see the last results. Not to pick on Troy's guys here but the typical path for this stone would involve someone losing that GIA document and it's far from out of the question that someone else would resubmit it for yet another inspection later, maybe repeating this cycle several times. This game is a major revenue stream for GIA.

Back to the numbers. Common advice is to 'discount' EGLI by a grade or two sight unseen as a way of identifying a deal. That would have a potential shopper comparing this one to H/SI1/xxx or possibly I/SI1/vg from GIA. The cheapest GIA/H/SI1 here is $10,669 at the moment and most are upwards of $13k. $10k for this stone looks like a bargain. That's a $3000 paycheck to the dealer for playing this game! Who's surprised that it's rampant?
 

yssie

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

This is a great thread! Thank you for sharing this with us consumers Troy - cold hard proof is a wonderful thing to have in one's arsenal of facts.

RD's HRD-I/SI2 GIA-K/I1 horse comes to mind also - I'll try and dig up that thread, so it's linked here..


ETA:
Rockdiamond|1300643424|2875797 said:
GIA and AGSL stci.
Yssie- I've also read European experts on PS saying HRD was acceptable- my own personal experience says different....Please have a look at this
r3179cert.jpg
r3179cert_0.jpg

When I purchased this stone, it had the HRD calling it an I/SI2- yet I bought it priced as a K/I1- which was how I saw the stone.
Subsequently I submitted the stone to GIA

Seems to me that if a lab is good in Europe, they should also be good in the US.....


Neil - that was a very honest appraisal of how things currently stand - and as a consumer, I agree with it. The other issue of course is that consumers who have done some poking around now understand that a stone graded D/IF by PodunkGemLab most likely wouldn't come back as the same from GIA, *but* now they are thinking that even if GIA sent it back as an F/VVS2, it's still a deal, so it's still good value... it takes lots more digging - too much more digging - to fully believe that A) there's no provable, reliable, repeatable scale by which to translate from labA to labB to labC, and B) part of the value of having a stone w/ a GIA report is in *knowing* the King of the Jungle's opinion on the matter.

Makes sense that this example would be sold w/ the EGL-I report. I am surprised to learn that it might one day be resubmitted to GIA, for two reasons - 1) this would seem to imply that the current GIA report can indeed be so successfully obfuscated that once memory of actually submitting it has faded, it's like it never happened, and/or 2) that someone somewhere knows something about and can predict internal grading cycling wherein an SI2 in early 2010 might be an SI1 in late 2010, and an SI2 again in early 2011... is this likely? Or is it just resubmitting to GIA and hoping the guys who look at it that day are in benevolent moods?


Submitting stones for grading should be more like taking the MCAT. I can take the MCAT as many times as I want, and medical schools will allow me to present my best score for their consideration, but *all* my scores are logged and easily found if they want to see them. No 'losing papers' along the way! 'Course, that would require a common database, which would imply a level of standardization that would eliminate much of this discussion in the first place!
 

Rockdiamond

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Liberty Diamonds|1308420689|2949049 said:
Thanks for the feedback... The EGL USA is a pre-grade and I did not order the certificate yet. Though I attached pictures of the diamond that is graded by all three labs...

Also as a diamond buyer I have come across a few wholesale dealers in the US, that duel certify there diamonds with GIA and one of the EGL certificates. This way they can post the same diamond twice with two different prices. As the diamond is priced according to the market value of the grades they received, and in most cases the same diamond is more expensive with the inferior certificate.
Troy- first and foremost- welcome- should have said that earlier.

Here's part of my point- the terminology dealers use is very important.
For example: "Dealers certify stones" versus, "Dealers send stones to EGL, or GIA "
I promise Troy- I don't mean to pick on you- if you use the right terminology, you'll find it is a benefit to all.

This point was driven home about 11 years ago.
We were already fairly well known on eBay. I used to use the term "GIA certified"
GIA sent us a lawyer's letter.
The jist of it was: stop using the term "GIA certified" in our listings.
We were free to advertise that the stones had GIA reports, but not to call them certified.

I took my camera down to 47th street and sent them photos of 20 neon signs advertising "GIA certified Diamonds" to show we were hardly the sole offender- and offered to make sure to use correct terminology in the future.

yssie- thanks for digging that one up!
 

denverappraiser

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Yssie,

GIA, and indeed any serious lab, is going to be pretty good at internally recognizing a stone that they've graded before unless it's been recut in the meantime. The technology is just to readilly available NOT to do that. They reserve the right change their opinion and they claim that the prior grade is not considered in deciding on the new one but this strikes me as unlikely. I suppose I'll leave it to others to decide if they want to believe the GIA PR engine.

Why doesn't it SAY on the GIA report that this stone has been examined 2 or 10 times? That's an interesting question. Ability to play this game is, in my opinion, the #1 reason NOT to get a girdle inscription on a stone and why is this even an option? Not everyone thinks of the inscription as helpful, but I can't think of a single customer in years who has OBJECTED to it unless it was for this reason.

My first answer to this, and many things, is to follow the money. As mentioned, this is a lucrative revenue stream for GIA and others. It's also worth noting that, despite the statements that they are a consumer protection orgainzation, the vast majority of their income comes from providing services to dealers, not consumers. There's an enormous conflict of interest for them in this enterprise. It's even more extreme for the unfavored labs. A profitable strategy for a dealer with 1000 stones would be to grade them in-house and then send them ALL to EGLI. Take the ones that are high (meaning that they have a grade similar to what was expected from GIA) and send those to GIA. Take the ones that you think will get an AGS-0 and send them to AGSL. Take the ones that miss the mark by a little bit and send them to EGL-USA. Keep the ones that are way off and sell them as EGLI's. If the GIA's come back similar, sell them as GIA's, otherwise keep the EGLI and sell them that way. Do the same with every stone. Half the lab papers get shredded.

Even if only half of those stones end up actually being sold with EGLI paperwork, they get paid for the services on every stone. That's not exactly money for nothing but it's a pretty darned good gig. Assuming that the original in-house grader knew what they were doing, and any dealer with a thousand stones to submit knows what they're doing, then each stone goes to market with the best possible pedigree. Increasing the sales prices by even a few percent is all it takes to make this a very profitable effort. The dealer makes money, GIA makes money, both EGL's make money, and everybody goes home happy. Customers who want 'feel good' papers get them, customers who want GIA get them etc. It's not even really an ethical problem, it's just giving the customers what they want. GIA gets to stand on the position that they're protecting the public trust the whole time because, after all, they didn't do it. EGLI gets a bad reputation on Pricescope and other places, and they get to laugh about it all the way to the bank. That, my friends, is why I think it's been happening, and why I think it will keep on happening for a good long time even in the face of speeches at the trade shows lambasting it and threads here on pricescope nearly every day warning shoppers about the pitfalls.
 

yssie

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Neil - thanks for the detailed explanation... Money talks. Well, I suppose it's naive to imagine it any other way - not when sidestepping admission of such a conflict of interest is both so convenient and so lucrative :sick:
 

Liberty Diamonds

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

This is from the JCK: Grading lab standards Debate if yet to be posted... And some follow up comments...

JCK Las Vegas: Panel Debates Grading Lab Standards
By Rob Bates, Senior Editor
Posted on June 7, 2011

The consumer is being hurt by different standards among diamond grading laboratories, participants at a June 5 Rapaport forum on diamond certification agreed.

“Should there be industry policing regarding labs that are three color grades off?” forum moderator Martin Rapaport asked. “That kind of abuse is very problematic. The issue is industry self-regulation. We need to say, if you are two colors off, that is not acceptable. Right now, there is no red line.”

Don Palmieri, president of the Gem Certification and Assurance Lab (GCAL), feared the industry is “in a race to the bottom.”

“We are cheating the consumer when you tell them the diamond is a one or two color grades better than it is,” he said. “If this was 18 karat gold and it was stamped 14 karat, everyone would be screaming bloody murder.”

But Jerry Ehrenwald, owner of the International Gemological Institute, noted that most diamond grading remains subjective.

“There are differences of opinion among labs, sometimes even among graders in the same lab,” he said. “It’s the retailer’s responsibility to use a lab he feels is responsible.”

One possible solution: Gems graded electronically. “Within the next decade, we will have machines that can grade color and clarity,” Ehrenwald predicted. “And, eventually, that will wipe out all the labs.”

Another issue: can all labs detect treatments? Rapaport said he was examining jewelry in one noted retailer, “and I looked at the fancy yellow melee, and I said: There is no way those are not treated.”

Peter Yantzer, executive director of the AGS Laboratory, said “all top-tier labs” have sophisticated gemological screening processes.

“With synthetics and HPHT, we can identify them 99 percent of the time,” he said. “But when it comes to melee, it’s not cost-effective.”

Post as …

Jawblackie
As the former head of the JVC we found not only did Labs differ in their grading, we found the same labs differed in grading the same diamond the second and third times. Diamond dealers are aware of this and that loophole has NEVER been corrected. When I suggested that grading should be given plus and minus gradations I was laughed at but now 15 years later that problem continues and will continue as long as the industry admits grading is subjective. To rely on policing will never work for who is there to judge the judges. Which lab is best? Which grader? This can never be corrected until the industry recognizes grading is a problem in need of a recognized standard with honest and recognized deviations for, it is now a law suit waiting to happen.


Asettlage
Collapse
The subjective variance seems to always be in color grade. Robert Shipley,( founder of GIA and AGS), Wade, Gubelin, and other pioneers of gemology advised that UV filters should be used in color grading diamonds.. Without a UV filter, the amount of UV will change due to various reasons like grading distance, type of bulb, etc... UV will stimulate the N3 centers in diamonds and cause them to fluoresece blue thus altering grades in stone with M,S,VS fluorescence. .The over-grading of blue-fluorescent diamonds has been the emphisis of the AGA Task Force and The British Journal of Gemology/2010/Volume 32/no.1-4 , and is not new knowlege to many of the members on the panel. Light is quantifiable. If the labs really want to get serious, they could implement some universal standards for lighting and certify the grading environments much like they certify the diamonds.. These steps must be a collective act between all grading labs.
 

clarediamond

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Hi,
I think it was a good idea for Liberty to attach Diamond Certificates. But not all buyer understand the terminology. To help clarify these terms, I am sending you a new glossary dealing with the diamond industry: "Diamond Certificate Glossary" - A list of terms that are commonly found on diamond certificates illustrated by an online, interactive EGL International Diamond Certificate..
http://eglinternational.org/diamond-certificate-glossary.html
Use it in good health.
Yours,
Clare
 

clarediamond

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Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Hi,
I think it was a good idea for Liberty to attach Diamond Certificates. But not all buyer understand the terminology. To help clarify these terms, I am sending you a new glossary dealing with the diamond industry: "Diamond Certificate Glossary" - A list of terms that are commonly found on diamond certificates illustrated by an online, interactive EGL International Diamond Certificate..
http://eglinternational.org/diamond-certificate-glossary.html
Use it in good health.
Yours,
Clare
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

clarediamond|1309855992|2961821 said:
Hi,
I think it was a good idea for Liberty to attach Diamond Certificates. But not all buyer understand the terminology. To help clarify these terms, I am sending you a new glossary dealing with the diamond industry: "Diamond Certificate Glossary" - A list of terms that are commonly found on diamond certificates illustrated by an online, interactive EGL International Diamond Certificate..
http://eglinternational.org/diamond-certificate-glossary.html
Use it in good health.
Yours,
Clare
Nothing new, all info present in the knowledge tag on pricescope if you bothered to read and want further info.
 

beesha77

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
249
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

I just saw on a vendor's site where the GIA had listed the stone as an I. the vendor graded it an S-T! :o And they showed comparison shots of what they grade an I, next to this diamond that is supposedly an I according to the GIA. Very interesting.
 

kindred

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 3, 2008
Messages
945
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

beesha77|1309879590|2961948 said:
I just saw on a vendor's site where the GIA had listed the stone as an I. the vendor graded it an S-T! :o And they showed comparison shots of what they grade an I, next to this diamond that is supposedly an I according to the GIA. Very interesting.
Do you happen to have the link? That would be interesting to see.
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

GIA is the standard for grading...
 

Liberty Diamonds

Rough_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
26
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

kindred said:
beesha77|1309879590|2961948 said:
I just saw on a vendor's site where the GIA had listed the stone as an I. the vendor graded it an S-T! :o And they showed comparison shots of what they grade an I, next to this diamond that is supposedly an I according to the GIA. Very interesting.
**edited by moderator. please see our policies regarding trade members commenting on the stones of others**
 

beesha77

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Nov 16, 2010
Messages
249
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

Err that's what I meant! Sorry! :oops:

Didn't notice the Israel part at the time. Though it's still very interesting how someone can grade it so differently. Sorry, I'm still learning! :oops:
 

IbrahimSS

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 18, 2011
Messages
71
Re: GIA vs. EGL USA vs EGL International which is the best d

I do feel the need to chime in here as a newbie consumer.

I think it's absolutely ridiculous that there are all kinds of standards to diamonds. Even at the top certs GIA vs AGS there is this illustrious H&A awarded by AGS whereas GIA doesn't even recognize this. There are comments above that state things like I wish more consumers took the time out to educate themselves etc but the truth of the matter is diamonds are difficult. Not only because there are all different standards but also because much of it is personal.

Beyond that it's difficult for a consumer with a full time job outside of this to really understand diamonds and make a proper decision. It's a serious *TIME*, not just money, commitment to choose a diamond. In a climate like this one as well where diamond prices are skyrocketing and every second you don't move costs you a 10-20% increase, you're forced to pull the trigger and jump on something.

Moreover, people aren't aware of what tools, like this forum, they have to learn about diamonds an to get objective opinions. It seems to me that most in the vendors like this and want to keep people in the dark as it's advantageous to them. This just creates a general distrust and most people just use someone a "friend' has used in the past or some "reputable" name.

I bought my diamond and can tell you I still don't understand the details of it all after researching it for quite a while. There are those that argue H&A are the ultimate and those that argue this supposed "ideal" cut actually reduces the perceived size of the diamond. This stuff is confusing and takes people years to become experts when they are trained so just imagine what it's like for us folks who just want to buy an engagement ring and move on with life. It's (hopefully) a one time purchase for someone like me and proper education just isn't possible with the number of variables therefore the abundant permutations.

This might be heresy to say here but I simply don't care about diamonds nor understand what attracts people to them. My goal is to just get the purchase over with without being taken for a ride thereby making the lady friend happy and as they say "happy wife, happy life". I don't think I'm that much different than the average man buying a ring in that way. The big difference between me and other men in my situation is I was able to leverage the wisdom of the masses through this forum and the amazing people who help those like me day to day by replying to our ignorant questions.
 
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