GIA vs AGS for a tranny?

[Octo2005]

So I recently purchased a beautiful tranny/OEC that was graded L/VVS2. It does not have the GIA number inscribed on the girdle so I wanted to get it inscribed before setting just for piece of mind since it is so "clean". My dilemma is should I go with GIA again or send it to AGS?

My main concern is making sure that I have covered my bases with insurance, in the unfortunate event that I ever needed to replace and certainly thinking of resale should that ever be necessary. Here are some of my thoughts and would love some feedback.

1. It would be cheaper to send to GIA for a recheck and inscription. Not a major concern, but worth noting.
2. It is an older report so it might be worth the extra money to have the stone re-graded, I don't see any chips or abrasions with my 30x loupe but always good to have piece of mind.
3. I thought that I read recently (on PS in a thread that I can't find now) that an AGS report was better for antique cut stones. GIA has it listed as RB
4. I also have seen discussions hear that AGS is softer on color grading, so is it worth it to try for a better color grade. It is very white for an L. I have another L that is much smaller and set in RG, which I occasionally notice some tint. I don't in this stone and even next to MRB H's in my band, I didn't really notice.

Thank you in advance for taking the time to reply.

 

[Karl_K]

I would use GIA, they are the more accepted/expected lab in the antique cut market other than specialty cuts that get AGS0 and even then GIA is better known.

 

[Bfelix]

I would use GIA, they are the more accepted/expected lab in the antique cut market other than specialty cuts that get AGS0 and even then GIA is better known.

I agree. GIA for antique cuts.

 

[Octo2005]

I would use GIA, they are the more accepted/expected lab in the antique cut market other than specialty cuts that get AGS0 and even then GIA is better known.

Thanks Karl. I know that you are correct, it was just so tempting to potentially "gain" value with a possible higher color grade. I believe the stone will definitely be hard to find an acceptable replacement if the need ever arose. But it certainly doesn't make sense to carry a higher premium payment for the "what if" scenario.

The original report is from 2014, if that is of any importance. I do wonder if it is worth the extra money to ask for a regrade as opposed to just a check and inscription? Is there much variation in grading from year-to-year?

 

[Octo2005]

I agree. GIA for antique cuts.

Thank you.

I love your AVC in your avatar pic!

 

[missy]

Thanks Karl. I know that you are correct, it was just so tempting to potentially "gain" value with a possible higher color grade. I believe the stone will definitely be hard to find an acceptable replacement if the need ever arose. But it certainly doesn't make sense to carry a higher premium payment for the "what if" scenario.

The original report is from 2014, if that is of any importance. I do wonder if it is worth the extra money to ask for a regrade as opposed to just a check and inscription? Is there much variation in grading from year-to-year?

One thing to be careful of is that GIA could always give it a lower grade potentially. If it was just on the border of one grade to the other. So if there is already a GIA inscription I would find that and leave well enough alone. As for AGS possibly giving it a higher color grade I don't really see how that would benefit you. You might have to pay higher insurance premiums for a theoretical payoff should the stone ever be lost/stolen etc. It wouldn't appeal to me. I prefer GIA for old cuts (and IMO they give truer color grades).

And congrats on purchasing your beautiful tranny!
Is there a thread with your gorgeous stone?

 

[Bfelix]

I agree. GIA for antique cuts.

Thank you. It is going to be here soon. I had the setting made. What do you plan on doing with your tranny?

 

[Octo2005]

One thing to be careful of is that GIA could always give it a lower grade potentially. If it was just on the border of one grade to the other. So if there is already a GIA inscription I would find that and leave well enough alone. As for AGS possibly giving it a higher color grade I don't really see how that would benefit you. You might have to pay higher insurance premiums for a theoretical payoff should the stone ever be lost/stolen etc. It wouldn't appeal to me. I prefer GIA for old cuts (and IMO they give truer color grades).

And congrats on purchasing your beautiful tranny!
Is there a thread with your gorgeous stone?

Thanks for the advise. That was the original plan but, I tend to start over thinking things and then start second guessing myself.

The stone was graded by GIA in 2014, but not inscribed. Since it is loose now, I wanted to have the report inscribed before setting and of course that started me down the rabbit hole of what-if's. I think I will just stick with the original plan of having the current number inscribed and leaving well enough alone.

No thread yet, I will have to start one.

 

[Octo2005]

Thank you. It is going to be here soon. I had the setting made. What do you plan on doing with your tranny?

Can't wait to see the finished piece. What direction did you decide to go?

I am so excited about the new setting! No CAD's yet, still in the early phase, but I plan to do a lotus basket with diamond shoulders.

 

[Karl_K]

Here is what I would do, I would have a highly skilled appraiser like Neil or Dave A take a look at it and write up a detailed appraisal telling and showing in images why the stone is special.
For insurance that is more important than a new gia report.
It could also help with resale in the right market.

 

[Karl_K]

Dave Atlas https://datlas.com/
Neil http://americangemregistry.com/

 

[Octo2005]

Here is what I would do, I would have a highly skilled appraiser like Neil or Dave A take a look at it and write up a detailed appraisal telling and showing in images why the stone is special.
For insurance that is more important than a new gia report.
It could also help with resale in the right market.

Thank you, that is a great idea!

 

[EvaEvans]

The stone was graded by GIA in 2014, but not inscribed. Since it is loose now, I wanted to have the report inscribed before setting

If your diamond is currently NOT inscribed, this is a GREAT opportunity to send it to other lab like AGSL for grading. I don't see the sense to send it to GIA again! I strongly disagree to send a loose diamond to a graduate gemologist for grading! If you need an appraisal for an insurance purposes, do it AFTER the second lab grading. In my practice, an appraisal will serve you much less if one day you decide to re-sell this diamond.
Also, I would NOT inscribe my old cut stone!

 

[Rhea]

Thinking out loud here. Is the edge thick enough to inscribe?

 

[Octo2005]

Thinking out loud here. Is the edge thick enough to inscribe?

I believe it is. It is listed as thin - medium, but I guess there is only one way to know for sure. I have discussed my plan for inscription with the vendor that I purchased from and, they did not say that I couldn't inscribe because the girdle was not thick enough.

 

[Octo2005]

If your diamond is currently NOT inscribed, this is a GREAT opportunity to send it to other lab like AGSL for grading. I don't see the sense to send it to GIA again! I strongly disagree to send a loose diamond to a graduate gemologist for grading! If you need an appraisal for an insurance purposes, do it AFTER the second lab grading. In my practice, an appraisal will serve you much less if one day you decide to re-sell this diamond.
Also, I would NOT inscribe my old cut stone!

Thanks for the reply Eva.

I wouldn't send for an appraisal until it is a finished piece of jewelry, I agree it doesn't make much sense to do before setting.

I currently have no plans to re-sell, but as we all know things change so I just wanted to make sure I have my ducks in a row so to speak.

Do you mind expanding on your thoughts to send it to AGSL? I have seen very mixed ideas on which lab is best for older cuts, but agree with @Karl_K that GIA would be more recognizable for most markets. My thoughts were that since AGSL is often slightly softer with color grading, that it might boost the ultimate value of the stone by several thousand dollars. @missy makes a great point that even if it does, it doesn't make sense to carry the higher insurance premium for the what-if.

Can I ask why you recommend against an inscription on a older cut stone? It is a very clean sizable stone and while I am very cautious about who I trust to clean/repair my jewelry, I felt that it would be prudent to have the inscription to quickly and easily confirm. I had a very hard time finding the inclusions with my loupe when viewing the stone loose even with the plot right in front of me.

 

[EvaEvans]

@Octo2005
Your diamond already have GIA certificate, so AGS in this case will be wise. I do like AGS because they dive ALL measurements of diamond, like star facet % and lower half %. GIA gives these measurements only if they recognize the diamond as Round Brilliant. I currently have 2 old stones set in a pair of earrings, I'm debating to myself if to unset and send for grading, but if I do it, my first choice will be AGS for old cut!
I have laser inscription on one of my old cut stones, and believe me, it annoys me! Authentic old cut diamond is better to preserve in its original condition! Laser inscriptions on old cut stones could only decrease their value. This is my own opinion, of course.
If AGS come back with different color grade, you can always insure your diamond with the GIA certificate. This is one more reason NOT to inscribe the certificate number on the girdle!

 

[flyingpig]

My main concern is making sure that I have covered my bases with insurance, in the unfortunate event that I ever needed to replace and certainly thinking of resale should that ever be necessary. Here are some of my thoughts and would love some feedback.

Here is what I would do, I would have a highly skilled appraiser like Neil or Dave A take a look at it and write up a detailed appraisal telling and showing in images why the stone is special.

I wouldn't send for an appraisal until it is a finished piece of jewelry, I agree it doesn't make much sense to do before setting.

than a new gia report.

You need to ask yourself again why you want to go thru regrading/appraisal process.
I do not see how it is helpful to get another AGS or GIA report for insurance purposes, when you already have the GIA report. I do not see how inscription would help for insurance purposes either. Of course, inscription will allow you to quickly identify the stone. But for insurance claiming purposes, I see a detail appraisal by a skilled and reputable appraiser will be more helpful, so that your stone does not get replaced by a random ugly GIA ex/very good stone by the insurance company.

In regards to having the stone mounted or unmounted, again, it depends. Some settings are special and have significant value. However, if your main concern is the stone, you should have it appraised unmounted for the most accurate appraisal and inspection.

Regarding GIA vs AGS, can you even send your stone to AGS for grading as an individual? or do you have a special arrangement with a vendor who can do it for you? In addition, unless, you are certain that your stone qualifies for AGS Ideal in both Cut and Light Performance, AGS report may actually hurt you. My last question is whether or not AGS assigns proper cut and light performance grades on a generic tranny/OEC. Remember AGS grade reports are preferred by many because its stricter cut grading and light performance information. An AGS grade report without cut/light performance grade or cut/light performance grade less than ideal is not necessarily more desirable than a GIA report.

 

[EvaEvans]

Regarding GIA vs AGS, can you even send your stone to AGS for grading as an individual?

Yes, you can submit your diamond for grading by AGS trough any of the AGS members, that are most of the reputable jewelers in the US.

 

[Octo2005]

@Octo2005
Your diamond already have GIA certificate, so AGS in this case will be wise. I do like AGS because they dive ALL measurements of diamond, like star facet % and lower half %. GIA gives these measurements only if they recognize the diamond as Round Brilliant. I currently have 2 old stones set in a pair of earrings, I'm debating to myself if to unset and send for grading, but if I do it, my first choice will be AGS for old cut!
I have laser inscription on one of my old cut stones, and believe me, it annoys me! Authentic old cut diamond is better to preserve in its original condition! Laser inscriptions on old cut stones could only decrease their value. This is my own opinion, of course.

Thanks for the reply.
I would be interested to hear from some of the experts and appraisers if it does impact value in their experience. The GIA report does classify my stone as a round brilliant, not OEC, which was concerning if I ever had to replace the stone. I think Karl made a great point to make sure that the appraisal is very detailed and mentions the old cut nature of the stone.

 

[EvaEvans]

You need to ask yourself again why you want to go thru regrading/appraisal process.
I do not see how it is helpful to get another AGS or GIA report for insurance purposes, when you already have the GIA report. I do not see how inscription would help for insurance purposes either. Of course, inscription will allow you to quickly identify the stone. But for insurance claiming purposes, I see a detail appraisal by a skilled and reputable appraiser will be more helpful, so that your stone does not replaced by a random ugly GIA ex/very good stone.

I absolutely agree!

 

[EvaEvans]

I would be interested to hear from some of the experts and appraisers if it does impact value in their experience.

I have seen modern cut diamonds with too many laser inscription on their girdle, including personal messages, and this always detract me from buying.
About the antique cut diamond inscription, here is one example: Sotheby's sold this diamond for over a half million US dollars, here is the certificate that they issued from GIA:

 

[Octo2005]

You need to ask yourself again why you want to go thru regrading/appraisal process.
I do not see how it is helpful to get another AGS or GIA report for insurance purposes, when you already have the GIA report. I do not see how inscription would help for insurance purposes either. Of course, inscription will allow you to quickly identify the stone. But for insurance claiming purposes, I see a detail appraisal by a skilled and reputable appraiser will be more helpful, so that your stone does not get replaced by a random ugly GIA ex/very good stone by the insurance company.
The inscription was more for my piece of mind to quickly identify the stone. The regrading was more of an after thought since I had to send them the stone to have an inscription done.

In regards to having the stone mounted or unmounted, again, it depends. Some settings are special and have significant value. However, if your main concern is the stone, you should have it appraised unmounted for the most accurate appraisal and inspection. The stone is loose and was a recent purchase so I will not have to unset it. I wanted to have the inscription done before having a setting made for my own comfort of quick identification.

Regarding GIA vs AGS, can you even send your stone to AGS for grading as an individual? or do you have a special arrangement with a vendor who can do it for you? In addition, unless, you are certain that your stone qualifies for AGS Ideal in both Cut and Light Performance, AGS report may actually hurt you. My last question is whether or not AGS assigns proper cut and light performance grades on a generic tranny/OEC. Remember AGS grade reports are preferred by many because its stricter cut grading and light performance information. An AGS grade report without cut/light performance grade or cut/light performance grade less than ideal is not necessarily more desirable than a GIA report. I don't think that it would be classified as Ideal cut, intact I am pretty sure that it would not. I was shocked at the color though, it must be a high L and thought that maybe the gain of a better color grade was worth exploring. Not really sure that is why I wanted to get opinions from PS members.

Thank you

 

[Octo2005]

I have seen modern cut diamonds with too many laser inscription on their girdle, including personal messages, and this always detract me from buying.
About the antique cut diamond inscription, here is one example: Sotheby's sold this diamond for over a half million US dollars, here is the certificate that they issued from GIA:

WOW! I would love to see that diamond.

I agree, I would not want several inscriptions or personal messages. Right now there is nothing inscribed and I would only want to have the report number.

 

[EvaEvans]

WOW! I would love to see that diamond.

I just updated my previous post adding the picture of the diamond. It's an amazing old mine cut diamond!

 

[Octo2005]

View attachment 617765

Sorry if this comes thru crazy big.

I believe that I have all of the angles that were mentioned. As you can see from the plot diagram it is a very clean stone and I have a hard time finding the inclusions to quickly verify the stone. That is really the main reason that I wanted it inscribed, everything else was just - well if I am sending it off anyways - should I explore these other options

 

[Octo2005]

It is gorgeous! Thank you for sharing

 

[flyingpig]

I don't think that it would be classified as Ideal cut, intact I am pretty sure that it would not. I was shocked at the color though, it must be a high L and thought that maybe the gain of a better color grade was worth exploring. Not really sure that is why I wanted to get opinions from PS members.

Then, I guess I see a reason. A color upgrade can translate to thousands of dollars, depending on the carat weight. Plus, you want inscription, which I completely understand. Mine does not have inscription; it annoyed me alot initially. So, that's two minor reasons, in addition to the fact that you get know your diamond more, for having it regraded by AGS. If you think the fee is reasonable, I say go for it.

 

[Octo2005]

View attachment 617765

Sorry if this comes thru crazy big.

I believe that I have all of the angles that were mentioned. As you can see from the plot diagram it is a very clean stone and I have a hard time finding the inclusions to quickly verify the stone. That is really the main reason that I wanted it inscribed, everything else was just - well if I am sending it off anyways - should I explore these other options

just realized original didn't upload. again sorry its so large can't figure out hw to make smaller

 

[Octo2005]

Then, I guess I see a reason. A color upgrade can translate to thousands of dollars, depending on the carat weight. Plus, you want inscription, which I completely understand. Mine does not have inscription; it annoyed me alot initially. So, that's two minor reasons, in addition to the fact that you get know your diamond more, for having it regraded by AGS. If you think the fee is reasonable, I say go for it.

There are no guarantees it will grade higher. I had just heard that they are softer on color grading and wanted to hear from others to make a more informed decision.