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GIA tricked & cheated: +63% depth XXX diamonds

John Pollard

Ideal_Rock
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May 1, 2008
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@John Pollard
Why not just say....
GIA lies.
Oh my. We have a strmrdr sighting. :cool2:

I'm actually neutral about GIA's ultimate position on this. @Rockdiamond posed it well above. If two diamonds have identical weight and visual appeal...but one spreads notably smaller...there's no harm done if the jeweler responsibly sells the one with smaller-spread for appropriately less.

(also from above) The wrinkle is the presumption that buyers will know two "1-carat" diamonds can face-up with different spreads. As anyone who sees client-traffic knows, most new buyers have no idea about that. But that's not GIA's fault...

Or is it? [ Cue dramatic music again ]
 

Karl_K

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sells the one with smaller-spread for appropriately less.
I laughed. That is funny.
Edit: A search shows I was right to laugh there is no discount on average from 63% to 63.1% depth or even 63.5%
Some of them are listed more than 62% depth gia X stones with all the same other specs.
Which would indicate atleast on the PS virtual lists they are not discounted which is a very good indication they are not discounted on the wholesale level on average.
 
Last edited:

Karl_K

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To late to edit: but to be fair to Sir John a jeweler could push back on the pricing and likely get a discount and pass it on but on internet lists where things are listed and sold at list+ markup someone could over pay for these diamonds.
So his statement could be true in some cases where the jeweler pushed back and passed the savings on to the client.
 

OoohShiny

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To late to edit: but to be fair to Sir John a jeweler could push back on the pricing and likely get a discount and pass it on but on internet lists where things are listed and sold at list+ markup someone could over pay for these diamonds.
So his statement could be true in some cases where the jeweler pushed back and passed the savings on to the client.
This statement brings to mind @diagem's comment the other day - if Rap stopped existing, would retailers, middle men, sightholders and miners know how to price their goods??!
 

Rockdiamond

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I've been pricing diamonds well before Rappaport came into prominence.
And even today, there's no "rap Sheet" for fancy colors- and so many unique diamonds have to be priced based on things other than Rappaport.
Also- if we look at any popular size color clarity ( 1.00 G/I1 RBC), the percentage of variance from the most costly to the least costly is massive- so someone is assigning values to these stones.....

It's a very good question as to how people price the stones.......I'd say it comes from looking at a lot of diamonds, over a long period of time.
 

OoohShiny

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I've been pricing diamonds well before Rappaport came into prominence.
And even today, there's no "rap Sheet" for fancy colors- and so many unique diamonds have to be priced based on things other than Rappaport.
Also- if we look at any popular size color clarity ( 1.00 G/I1 RBC), the percentage of variance from the most costly to the least costly is massive- so someone is assigning values to these stones.....

It's a very good question as to how people price the stones.......I'd say it comes from looking at a lot of diamonds, over a long period of time.
Things get even more variable when MMD/Lab Grown Diamonds are looked at - it is driving me slightly crazy that we don't have a PS-search engine (or similar) to trawl and collate prices from various sites, as it makes it very hard to talk about value and/or recommend stones to potential purchasers in the Lab Grown section! :???: (putting to one side future value discussions, of course ;-) )

re: pricing based on experience, I would agree that would be a learned skill :) but with the internet, both the consumer and the vendor can be better informed. The heart of the discussions seems to focus on "what price should diamonds be for the 4Cs and also the elusive 'beauty' variable", but I imagine it is hard to, effectively, 'price stones in a vacuum', which would have been the case before Rap and before the internet. Local stones/prices for local markets? Makes sense, but the whole world is the local market now!
 

diagem

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I've been pricing diamonds well before Rappaport came into prominence.
And even today, there's no "rap Sheet" for fancy colors- and so many unique diamonds have to be priced based on things other than Rappaport.
Also- if we look at any popular size color clarity ( 1.00 G/I1 RBC), the percentage of variance from the most costly to the least costly is massive- so someone is assigning values to these stones.....

It's a very good question as to how people price the stones.......I'd say it comes from looking at a lot of diamonds, over a long period of time.
I assume you mean Rapnet when you look at any popular size, presumably the largest diamond data base available. Also on that platform all diamonds have a % off Rapaport Price List, and one thing is certain, the highest discounts are placed on the first pages and as the diamonds value increase they go down the page rankings.

On one aspect, you are lucky as you really have no choice but to value the greater majority of your stock based on real value NUMBERS, but this is a far cry from the industry norm.

I am also willing to bet you next time you get offered a standard colorless diamond at (let say) minus 20% Rapaport, ask the seller a numerical dollar value instead of a discount from Rapaport, he won’t be able to price you the number without a check on his phone application or on the sheet itself. Try it.... out
 

Rockdiamond

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Yoram!!!
Old Buddy!!!
Yes, I call myself incredibly lucky....after all, I know you, right:)

I am also willing to bet you next time you get offered a standard colorless diamond at (let say) minus 20% Rapaport, ask the seller a numerical dollar value instead of a discount from Rapaport, he won’t be able to price you the number without a check on his phone application or on the sheet itself. Try it.... out
My brokers ALL know, by this time, that listing the price as "-20%" won't work here.....I'm too lazy to start calculating- let them earn their money.....but you're 100% correct- most of them only discuss percentage "back of rap" on colorless diamonds.... ( but not after I get through with them)
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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Things get even more variable when MMD/Lab Grown Diamonds are looked at - it is driving me slightly crazy that we don't have a PS-search engine (or similar) to trawl and collate prices from various sites, as it makes it very hard to talk about value and/or recommend stones to potential purchasers in the Lab Grown section! :???: (putting to one side future value discussions, of course ;-) )
It is not far off OS. Probably been done by now but Andrey is having new developer blues.
 

OoohShiny

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