GIA "excellent" -- why doesn''t it "add up?"

[vegasjon]

I'm a recent -- and happy -- purchaser of an F/VS2 1.31 carat round stone. The new ('06) GIA cert shows the cut grade as "excellent." But on the GIA website... when you check the angles... the stone charts just outside the excellent category and rates "Very Good."

Specs are:

table 55%
depth 61.0%
crown angle 35.0
pavil angle 40.4

It's the 40.4 pavilion angle that seems to be the deciding factor (a 40.6 would fall in the "excellent" range on the GIA website chart). How does the GIA certificate declare an "excellent" cut when the website seems to differ? Am I missing some unseen factors that go into the official grading of the cut?

 

[belle]

you''re not missing anything.
gia makes their own rules.
that''s why it''s most important to love the diamond...not the paper! (or the website..or facetware...or...)

you can search for threads on gia''s new ''cut grading''
their practices have been talked about before ( a lot!)

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/gia-ex-let-the-buyer-beware.41371/

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 4/18/2006 3:39:47 PM
Author: Virginia
Interesting that you should post this and quite timely as I am the owner of a GIA ''excellent'' stone that I have the same issue with. I have an email into GIA and they are looking into it for me. It says ''excellent'' on the cert and ''very good'' on the website. Now, I love the diamond- no doubt! But I would like to know the reason for the inconsistency. I will let you know if I ever get an answer.

My stone also has an pav angle of 40.4 so we have the exact same issue. But I love it and it is beautiful and bright so I am trying not to obsess about it. It just makes me upset how it seems GIA does not have their act together. I wrote the presidents office and they said they are looking into it....Try plugging your cert number in to the website and see if you have the same outcome as me. I would be VERY interested to know....

Are you saying that your report says ''Excellent'', but when you plug in your cert number into the website, it gives you ''very good''?

 

[Rhino]

Hi guys,

You are correct that the 40.4 pavilion angle is the cause of the "very good" as opposed to "excellent" grade. If you can forward me the report #''s on your stones perhaps I can help look into this for you. Regardless of the aforementioned statement GIA does not make up things as they go along. In fact AGS will be featuring info in the future that is currently not reported as well that may change grading on certain diamonds. Cut research is always an ongoing project and no matter what conclusions any lab comes to there will always be dissenting voices. I think it''s good that both labs are open to listening to input from tradesman and consumers for feedback and a willingness to adopt changes where they see it necessary. Unfortunately they are all prone to the common factor of human error.

I foresee one of 3 possibilities ...

Either GIA made a mistake in giving it the excellent grade, the report *may* be bogus, or the reported proportions are not correct and the stone is indeed GIA Excellent.

This is one reason why it''s always good to have a professional confirm the data on any given lab report be it GIA or AGS or whoever because we have all found there to be mistakes from time to time on any given grade (color, clarity or cut) although it''s not common. I''ll keep an eye on this thread for the report #''s and see if I can be of assistance for ya.

Kind regards,
Jonathan

 

[Rhino]

Date: 4/18/2006 4:16:14 PM
Author: Paul-Antwerp

Date: 4/18/2006 3:39:47 PM
Author: Virginia
Interesting that you should post this and quite timely as I am the owner of a GIA ''excellent'' stone that I have the same issue with. I have an email into GIA and they are looking into it for me. It says ''excellent'' on the cert and ''very good'' on the website. Now, I love the diamond- no doubt! But I would like to know the reason for the inconsistency. I will let you know if I ever get an answer.

My stone also has an pav angle of 40.4 so we have the exact same issue. But I love it and it is beautiful and bright so I am trying not to obsess about it. It just makes me upset how it seems GIA does not have their act together. I wrote the presidents office and they said they are looking into it....Try plugging your cert number in to the website and see if you have the same outcome as me. I would be VERY interested to know....

Are you saying that your report says ''Excellent'', but when you plug in your cert number into the website, it gives you ''very good''?

I believe its when they plug in their proportions into the FacetWare, not the Report # check.

 

[denverappraiser]

Vegasjon,

The program used on the GIA website is not the same as what they usen the lab. It''s supposed to ''estimate'' how the lab would grade a stone. Unless you have some reason to feel that your report is counterfeit (which is very unusual by the way), believe the printed report.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[vegasjon]

That is correct, Paul. The certificate lists cut grade........ excellent. Feel free to check it out for yourself. Run this report number through the GIA site and you can see the specs: 14811994

I''m really interested in any feedback on this.

 

[vegasjon]

Thanks Neil. No, I have no doubt the report is 100 percent authentic. More interested than anything else what other factors might explain the two different grades.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Date: 4/18/2006 4:21:04 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Vegasjon,

The program used on the GIA website is not the same as what they usen the lab. It''s supposed to ''estimate'' how the lab would grade a stone. Unless you have some reason to feel that your report is counterfeit (which is very unusual by the way), believe the printed report.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

You are correct, Neil.

But Virginia''s comment and problem seems to be different. It seems that she is checking out the report-number and this seems to give another result than the actual report. Virginia, could you please confirm?

 

[Rhino]

Thanks for the Report # vegasjon. I have a contact at GIA looking into this for ya and will share with ya what I find out.

Regards,
Jonathan

 

[Rod]

Hi.......I have a new ''06 report on my stone and GIA says it''s Very Good, not Excellent. And guess what? I don''t care. Like Belle says, love the stone, not the paper. My pet rock is way more beautiful than I deserve. It sparkles like mad in the kinds of liighting situations a well cut stone should sparkle. It''s depth isn''t ''ideal.'' It''s table, by some people''s standards is a tad big, but it''s my special stone and it''s perfect to me!!

Your friend...........

 

[Rhino]

Date: 4/18/2006 4:35:15 PM
Author: Rod
Hi.......I have a new ''06 report on my stone and GIA says it''s Very Good, not Excellent. And guess what? I don''t care. Like Belle says, love the stone, not the paper. My pet rock is way more beautiful than I deserve. It sparkles like mad in the kinds of liighting situations a well cut stone should sparkle. It''s depth isn''t ''ideal.'' It''s table, by some people''s standards is a tad big, but it''s my special stone and it''s perfect to me!!

Your friend...........

And that''s what counts most!

I have a stone here that''s a GIA good with a 66% table that is very bright with shallow pavilion angles. It''s your eyes that the stone must appeal to most regardless of the paper.

 

[valeria101]

No idea what happens with the difference between cert and FacetWare.

However... those proportions sound good, don''t they? (HCA and DiamCalc helping with the guesswork there). I can''t see this one of course, but have fond memories of RBC with such pavilion angles near 40.5. If anything, this one would be very much worth taking a look at, IMO.

My 2c

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

To use http://www.gia.edu/reportcheck/ you need 2 things
report # and
CARAT WEIGHT

 

[belle]

here''s virginia''s original report

 

[belle]

you''re welcome virginia!

that diamond is a beauty! LOVE the size

 

[vegasjon]

For those interested... this is the report from my initial post.

 

[vegasjon]

Indeed, Virginia. Two separate issues. My report seems consistent (online and on paper), but just doesn''t seem to match the parameters GIA sets forth in its web "chart."

I''m eager to hear back from Rhino regarding what other factors may be at play.

 

[Mara]

My new upgrade stone has an old GIA report and when I plug the #'s into the website, it's only VG not EX...but I don't care!! As we all know, their cut grades are wonky anyway.

Oh and I noticed that the GIA website puts my crown angle at 35 but on the Sarin from WF it's 34.8.

 

[vegasjon]

This is the diamond:

 

[princessv]

bump for Virginia

 

[Houseparty]

Date: 4/18/2006 5:56:59 PM
Author: Mara
Oh and I noticed that the GIA website puts my crown angle at 35 but on the Sarin from WF it''s 34.8.

Mara,
GIA rounds crown angle measurements to the nearest one-half degree. 34.8 may be the actual angle, but GIA consciously contaminates their data and records it as 35.0. As we know, their position is simply poor statistics.

David

 

[Mara]

I''m flawed in remembering all that GIA discussion from a bit ago, so does the 35 push it into the VG category then? To me the numbers as on the Sarin run by WF are my absolute ideal sweet spot.

Rounding just like EGL. Useless!!

 

[vegasjon]

I know in my case the "35" crown fits into the excellent range.

 

[Diam100]

Ok try using this look up table. In my case everything checks out with the cut grade being excellent but my stone was graded in 2006. I''m wondering if the "Gia Wonkys" is impacting older reports.

Mara - yours I believe fits the "excellent" cut range.

Here''s the look up table I found:
Gia Table Link

 

[vegasjon]

Hey, Diam. Yeah, that''s the chart that prompted this whole thread. Enter: 55% table, 35 degree crown and 40.4 degree pavillion and you''ll see. In fact, there are NO combos involving a 40.4 degree pavillion that rate "excellent" -- according to that chart.

Yet my GIA report grades the stone "excellent" for cut.

 

[Diam100]

Hmmmmm... I guess either there''s some rounding going on, in which case your stone would still be "excellent" or somebody at GIA didn''t have enough coffee that morning.

I have no clue why it''s off. I guess you could take it too an independent appraiser to run a Sarin & compare it to AGS & GIA grading standards if it still bothers you.
Regardless of the confusion, it still is a very lovely stone.

 

[Houseparty]

Date: 4/18/2006 6:31:58 PM
Author: Mara
I''m flawed in remembering all that GIA discussion from a bit ago, so does the 35 push it into the VG category then? To me the numbers as on the Sarin run by WF are my absolute ideal sweet spot.

Rounding just like EGL. Useless!!

Hi,
Given a CA of 35, then if your PA is 40.6 to 41.6 (I know your not flirting with the high number), than that combo would likely be GIA "Ex". Table size has an impact too, but I suspect you are not far off 56. If PA is 40.4 then this thread may apply to you as well...

David

 

[Mara]

GIA has my stone specs listed at 56% table, 60.6% depth, 35 angle and 40.8 angle.

WF Sarin is 56%, 60.6%, 34.8 and 40.8.

So I guess it''s GIA EX? How odd that their website lists it at VG.

 

[diamondlil]

Wow, Virginia, when you told me about this last week, I thought it was just a fluke error on the GIA website affecting only your stone (lucky you

), but here we are a week later, and there are more. Wonky indeed!