GIA/AGS/HRD/EGL/IGI difference?

[michiu]

Hi I was researching diamonds and I noticed the Lab makes a difference in price.
I know that GIA and AGS are the ones to go with but what about the others?
What''s the difference?
Is the cut, clarity, and color on the GIA/AGS grade different than that of other labs?
please EDUCATE!!!!
thanks!

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/10/2009 2:36:27 PM
Author:michiu
Hi I was researching diamonds and I noticed the Lab makes a difference in price.
I know that GIA and AGS are the ones to go with but what about the others?
What''s the difference?
Is the cut, clarity, and color on the GIA/AGS grade different than that of other labs?
please EDUCATE!!!!
thanks!

This page explains how the grading labs rank.

http://diamonds.pricescope.com/grading.asp

Cut grades, AGS are considered to be the premier lab for cut grading, providing performance based reports for round and Princess primarily, their top cut grade is AGS0. GIA also grade rounds only, their highest cut grade is excellent, the standards are wider than AGS so each diamond needs careful evaluation on its desirable physical and visual properties.

 

[jstarfireb]

Also note that there is a price premium for GIA and AGS graded stones. This is because these labs are particularly accurate on color and clarity. IGI and EGL (with the possible exception of EGL-USA) are softer on color and clarity, such that an EGL H/SI1 may in fact be equivalent to a GIA J/I1. So while it looks like you''re getting a great deal by going with an EGL stone, you may just be paying what you would have paid for a GIA J/I1 for example.

As for cut quality...AGS, GIA, and EGL all grade cut quality for rounds. Only AGS grades cut quality for princesses. No other fancy cuts get cut quality grades (as far as I know).

 

[michiu]

so then to be safe since Cut is my most important C, I should stick with GIA or AGS?

 

[DiamondsDiamonds]

It is best to stay with GIA or AGS.

 

[Rockdiamond]

All good advice given!
The problem with any lab besides GIA or AGSL is that the industry itself- dealers and cutters- won''t base prices on grades issued by anyone but GIA or AGS.
If a seller is not making this clear, that could, in itself, be considered a problem.

As was mentioned GIA grades cut only on round diamonds, AGSL on Princess cuts as well.
What shape are you considering?

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/10/2009 4:40:18 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
All good advice given!
The problem with any lab besides GIA or AGSL is that the industry itself- dealers and cutters- won''t base prices on grades issued by anyone but GIA or AGS.
If a seller is not making this clear, that could, in itself, be considered a problem.

As was mentioned GIA grades cut only on round diamonds, AGSL on Princess cuts as well.
What shape are you considering?

 

[Rockdiamond]

Sorry, I''ll be more clear.
My experience is that in New York City, Tel Aviv Israel, and Antwerp Belgium, three of the busiest trading centers of the diamond world, dealers won''t pay for a stone based on a grade issued by anyone but GIA or AGSL.
If your experience is different DIAGEM, I''d be interested to hear.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/10/2009 5:18:20 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Sorry, I''ll be more clear.
My experience is that in New York City, Tel Aviv Israel, and Antwerp Belgium, three of the busiest trading centers of the diamond world, dealers won''t pay for a stone based on a grade issued by anyone but GIA or AGSL.
If your experience is different DIAGEM, I''d be interested to hear.

More clear? Your writing:

"...The problem with any lab besides GIA or AGSL is that the industry itself- dealers and cutters- won''t base prices on grades issued by anyone but GIA or AGS..."


More your writing:

"...in New York City, Tel Aviv Israel, and Antwerp Belgium, three of the busiest trading centers of the diamond world, dealers won''t pay for a stone based on a grade issued by anyone but GIA or AGSL...."


From "the industry itself" it changed to ONLY "three of the busiest trading centers"..., David..., the industry is a bit larger than that!

You forgot the "cutters" as you became clearer...

Base a price or pay for a stone based....?


Does it get clearer?

.

 

[michiu]

Date: 2/10/2009 4:40:18 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
All good advice given!

The problem with any lab besides GIA or AGSL is that the industry itself- dealers and cutters- won''t base prices on grades issued by anyone but GIA or AGS.

If a seller is not making this clear, that could, in itself, be considered a problem.


As was mentioned GIA grades cut only on round diamonds, AGSL on Princess cuts as well.

What shape are you considering?

I am only looking at the rounds!!

To the naked eye is there a visible difference between a ags000 or GIA triple excellent with maybe an AGS0 or GIA with excellent cut grade but sym and pol only vg??

and what about a VS2 vs. a SI1...will the lower clarity affect sparkle? (assuming the cut is ags ideal /GIA excellent grade, and color being the same)

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/10/2009 5:44:32 PM
Author: michiu

Date: 2/10/2009 4:40:18 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
All good advice given!

The problem with any lab besides GIA or AGSL is that the industry itself- dealers and cutters- won''t base prices on grades issued by anyone but GIA or AGS.

If a seller is not making this clear, that could, in itself, be considered a problem.


As was mentioned GIA grades cut only on round diamonds, AGSL on Princess cuts as well.

What shape are you considering?

I am only looking at the rounds!!

To the naked eye is there a visible difference between a ags000 or GIA triple excellent with maybe an AGS0 or GIA with excellent cut grade but sym and pol only vg??

and what about a VS2 vs. a SI1...will the lower clarity affect sparkle? (assuming the cut is ags ideal /GIA excellent grade, and color being the same)

A visible difference will appear with every angle nuance combination on Diamonds.
Some are more sensitive and some are less. (more differences will appear in the tools people use such as ASET, IS, HCA etc...)

You must separate your preferences..., beauty vs. performance!

A GIA ex (cut), vg (pol. & sym.) can definitely be a beautiful and high performance Diamond..., a lot of people will not see the difference IRL.

In regards to (GIA, AGS) SI1 vs VS2..., its on a case by case basis..., with SI1 having a greater chance of not being eye clean. Sparkle should not be effected between these two clarity grades.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Diagem- if it;s ok with you, I'll start another thread regarding the merits of HRD- don;t want to "thread-jack"
michiu- do some reading and you'll find a lot of people around here who feel exactly as DiaGem.
I have a different viewpoint.

I don't feel that a diamond needs to "perform" to be beautiful.
If you want to get into learning about all the angles and so on, this is a great place to do it!

BUT- my point is that many incredibly well cut diamonds are sold where the buyer does not need to try and decipher ASET's IS photos or the HCA.
Not to say anything negative about these tools- but if you go with a diamond GIA graded EX cut grade , there's minuscule likelihood of you getting a dog.
Furthermore, if you can look at the diamonds in person, all those tools become even less necessary IMO.

The same could be said for the difference between GIA and AGS- if you go with 0 cut grade ( AGS) or EX cut grade ( GIA) you should be fine.

I strongly encourage folks to at least consider an SI1 to stretch the budget.
It's my experience that many SI1 diamonds are eye clean. The size of an SI1 imperfetion, graded by GIA or AGS is not going to be large enough to affect sparkle as viewd by the human eye..

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/10/2009 6:09:34 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Diagem- if it;s ok with you, I''ll start another thread regarding the merits of HRD- don;t want to ''thread-jack''
michiu- do some reading and you''ll find a lot of people around here who feel exactly as DiaGem.
I have a different viewpoint.

I don''t feel that a diamond needs to ''perform'' to be beautiful.
If you want to get into learning about all the angles and so on, this is a great place to do it!

BUT- my point is that many incredibly well cut diamonds are sold where the buyer does not need to try and decipher ASET''s IS photos or the HCA.
Not to say anything negative about these tools- but if you go with a diamond GIA graded EX cut grade , there''s minuscule likelihood of you getting a dog.
Furthermore, if you can look at the diamonds in person, all those tools become even less necessary IMO.

The same could be said for the difference between GIA and AGS- if you go with 0 cut grade ( AGS) or EX cut grade ( GIA) you should be fine.

I strongly encourage folks to at least consider an SI1 to stretch the budget.
It''s my experience that many SI1 diamonds are eye clean. The size of an SI1 imperfetion, graded by GIA or AGS is not going to be large enough to affect sparkle as viewd by the human eye..

I dont think HRD is at subject..., and I truly believe you have enough on your plate prior to starting yet another thread...

Second issue I feel needs pointing is; before you offer someone else to "do some reading"..., I strongly suggest for you to read as well as you obviously have no idea what my opinions or views are on the subject of "beauty vs performance"....

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI Diagem,
Since the subject of HRD is part of the threads title- I assume the OP wants to know about them.

I ask this in all sincerity - Diagem, is HRD held in the same regard as GIA in your opinion?
Put another way- If a cutter has a 5carat D Internally Flawless where you are- will they get the same price if the stone has an HRD report as it would with a GIA, or AGSL?
I'm not asking to be argumentative, I'd really like to know your opinion.

I have not read all your posts, that's true-
You drew a distinction between beauty and performance.
You also suggested using ASET IS and HCA- which are proven to do the job they for which they were intended.

Therefore, I assumed you are among those professionals that subscribe to the use of these tools. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Despite their proven effectiveness, I still choose to use other methods to assess diamonds.
If I was discussing this with a family member- anyone- and there was zero commercial interest in it for me- I'm not trying to sell these stones.
I would still tell the person to look at diamonds to get an idea of what they like- and what they can actually see.
If they are going to buy online, use any and all of the tools they feel comfortable using.
I would not necessarily rule out a seller who does not use HCA, IS and ASET- as it does not necessarily mean they won't get a great stone
My personal preference in shopping certain personal items like a diamond, is to choose my dealer- then pick from online inventory, or have them show me stones they like.

michiu- no worries, you're going to get an amazing stone. The people here are very helpful;, you'll have a lot of suggestions.

 

[diagem]

Date: 2/10/2009 7:02:03 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
HI Diagem,
Since the subject of HRD is part of the threads title- I assume the OP wants to know about them.

The op seemed to have narrowed its questions to AGS and GIA (as per my understanding from a few posts back..., maybe I am wrong).

I ask this in all sincerity - Diagem, is HRD held in the same regard as GIA in your opinion?
Put another way- If a cutter has a 5carat D Internally Flawless where you are- will they get the same price if the stone has an HRD report as it would with a GIA, or AGSL?
I''m not asking to be argumentative, I''d really like to know your opinion.

Not every 5 carat D-IF is the same and/or comparable..., and yes..., my opinion on HRD is that they are very much consistent in their color/clarity grading..., IF can be issued with internal graining where GIA automatically down grades it to VVS1 (in this case I am with HRD as not all internal graining is viewable or noticeable at 10X).
As a cutter..., I would make decisions based on my professional experience and knowledge (on a specific Diamond) and not based on "who" issued the grade. just as I make decisions when pricing and purchasing rough (which does not include any lab reports.

)

I have not read all your posts, that''s true-
You drew a distinction between beauty and performance.
You also suggested using ASET IS and HCA- which are proven to do the job they for which they were intended.

Can you please show me where (anywhere on PS) I "suggested" ever "using ASET, IS and HCA"? I dont even own or use any of these tools myself!

Therefore, I assumed you are among those professionals that subscribe to the use of these tools. Sorry if I misunderstood.

Yes..., you did misunderstood or simply not read careful enough!

Despite their proven effectiveness, I still choose to use other methods to assess diamonds.
If I was discussing this with a family member- anyone- and there was zero commercial interest in it for me- I''m not trying to sell these stones.
I would still tell the person to look at diamonds to get an idea of what they like- and what they can actually see.
If they are going to buy online, use any and all of the tools they feel comfortable using.
I would not necessarily rule out a seller who does not use HCA, IS and ASET- as it does not necessarily mean they won''t get a great stone
My personal preference in shopping certain personal items like a diamond, is to choose my dealer- then pick from online inventory, or have them show me stones they like.

michiu- no worries, you''re going to get an amazing stone. The people here are very helpful;, you''ll have a lot of suggestions.

 

[Rockdiamond]

so as not to thread-jack
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/hrd-introduces-new-cut-grading-system-for-rounds-1-1-09.105071/page-4

 

[Lorelei]

Date: 2/10/2009 5:44:32 PM
Author: michiu

Date: 2/10/2009 4:40:18 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
All good advice given!

The problem with any lab besides GIA or AGSL is that the industry itself- dealers and cutters- won''t base prices on grades issued by anyone but GIA or AGS.

If a seller is not making this clear, that could, in itself, be considered a problem.


As was mentioned GIA grades cut only on round diamonds, AGSL on Princess cuts as well.

What shape are you considering?

I am only looking at the rounds!!

To the naked eye is there a visible difference between a ags000 or GIA triple excellent with maybe an AGS0 or GIA with excellent cut grade but sym and pol only vg??

and what about a VS2 vs. a SI1...will the lower clarity affect sparkle? (assuming the cut is ags ideal /GIA excellent grade, and color being the same)

I will defer to those who have compared both for the first question.

The second question, if the diamond is verified eyeclean by a trusted vendor, then the clarity grade won''t affect sparkle visible to the human eye.