Getting Diamond Appraised? Help

[find45di2]

So I chose on a diamond and a setting from a private diamond seller. He is having the setting prongs reset to hold the stone I purchased. The stone was a GIA certified stone and I really like what I am buying.

I was curious to know how a Diamond Appraisal works? I know that they say the appraiser should be independent and not actually be selling diamonds. Are these types of appraisers found easily? I searched my state and only found one that is almost 2 hours away.

The diamond is being set but I wanted to have it appraised afterwards to confirm that it is my diamond for the most part. I know it is better to appraise out of the setting but I am sort of pressed for time.

Anyone have any recommendations about how to get this thing appraised so I can be sure I am getting what I paid for???? HELP ME

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 9/13/2007 11:45:08 PM
Author:find45di2

I was curious to know how a Diamond Appraisal works? I know that they say the appraiser should be independent and not actually be selling diamonds. Are these types of appraisers found easily? I searched my state and only found one that is almost 2 hours away.

The diamond is being set but I wanted to have it appraised afterwards to confirm that it is my diamond for the most part. I know it is better to appraise out of the setting but I am sort of pressed for time.

Anyone have any recommendations about how to get this thing appraised so I can be sure I am getting what I paid for???? HELP ME

You searched your state using the tool at the top right, under Resources...Appraiser list?

If you''ve already done that...there''s several organizations beyond which list appraisers who should be qualified...though I''m less sure they''re independent. Mainly...you want to be sure the jeweler who sells you the diamond is not your appraiser...and that the appraiser who does your work knows you''d not possibly buy anything from them as an alternative. NAJA offers a big list of appraisers.

Confirming the diamond (which has a cert?) matches the cert should be a pretty straightforward task, and though not ideal, having it appraised after set is common and again for principally matching, should not be a problem.

Alternately...for a big purchase...a 2 hour drive might not be too bad, if you could make it work.

Regards,

 

[denverappraiser]

Where are you?

There are several organizations that appraisers join that can assist. We join these in part because they are good sources to stay current on our educations and in part because it provides just the sort of referral you are looking for. The only one that requires their members to be independent as you request are the AGS ICGA’s by they way. Unfortunately there are only 13 of us in the country but if you happen to be near one I recommend them. The vast majority of jewelry appraisers are associated with or even own jewelry stores, pawn shops, auction galleries and similar veneues.

www.ags.org American Gem Society
www.najaappraisers.com National Association of Jewelry Appraisers
www.appraisers.org American Society of Appraisers
www.isa-appraisers.org International Society of Appraisers

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[oldminer]

In the dark ages, 1997 and before when I was a member of AGS they didn''t want anything to do with "independent appraisers". They told me that appraising was a "retail function" and I had no business doing them. We had five CG''s on staff, including me, and the dues were nearly $2K per year which I was paying. Being told we could not use our credentials on appraisals told me the path was adios to AGS. It was the right decision. We were Indendent then and remain that way. There are many more than 13 qualified, independent appraisers around the USA. AGS made an accomodation after a couple important "retired" AGS retailers wanted to stay in business as appraisers by creating the ICGA status. It a nice title and I only wish it was so meaningful that it had to be one we had on our door.

Now if AGS supported these 13 people with all its power it might one day become a bigger group of practicioners. The jury on that is still out. Every single ICGA is HIGHLY QUALIFIED AND subject to strict business and ethical practices. They should never offer to sell you anything except services. You can rely on an ICGA no matter how I feel personally about ancient history. The ICGA is an excellent title and program. No doubts there.

The list of other organizations provided above does have highly mixed levels of people with extensive to limited expertise and many cannot be viewed as independent appraisers. These orgainzations need to do more to identify this distinctly special group. It would be a good consumer service and I don''t see any downside to doing it. If you call the organizations they may, in some cases, be able to give you names of independent members in your region if there happens to be one. It is a small group of appraisers no matter how you find them. Be aware, that most appraisers do not make their living from appraising, but from retailing, in our field.

 

[denverappraiser]

Dave,

I agree that the ICGA’s are the red headed stepchildren of the AGS but times change and as the retail members figure out that we are not their enemy I suspect this will improve. Maybe not. Most AGS stores offer in house appraisals and they would just as soon that customers treat them as one-stop-shops for all their jewelry needs. Demand by the public for this sort of service is clearly increasing and AGS wants to be on the leading edge of these things. So far, they are the ONLY group that provides any more than lip service to the whole issue. Like you, I suspect that this too will change. There are excellent appraisers who are associated with these other groups, or who are members of none at all for that matter. In many cases ‘independent’ appraisers aren’t necessary for the task at hand and their involvement with a dealer isn’t such a problem but this scenario is one where I agree that caution is appropriate.

You’re a mover and a shaker in NAJA, do you have any idea if there is anything afoot at NAJA over this?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[oldminer]

Yes, there is some NAJA action on this front. Gail Levine, the chief of NAJA recognizes there are different sorts of members and different levels of knowledge. Every member has been asked, or will be asked for appraisal samples which I, Joe Tenhagen or Gail and Howard Rubin, her husband, review in detail. We are making the attempt to note who is Independent versu who is a retailer/appraiser. It is not easy since folks push the envelope with the exactness of their version of the truth on occasion.

Its a work in progress. I like the Pricescope concept with the ability to list details based on various questions and answers. I would support this kind of interface on appraisal organization websites, too.
It was a very good idea.

 

[stebbo]

While you're both here, how strict are these organizations (and others such as the JBT and JVC) in enforcing their chartered codes of conduct? It's a hard call to discipline or evict the very people who fund your existence, where's the line drawn?

 

[denverappraiser]

Dave,

The process of peer review in part of all of the other major groups and adding it into the NAJA requirements is a marvelous step forward. Thank are owed to you and Joe for your ongoing work. I know it’s a huge task. I’m an NAJA member and I don’t recall ever being queried about my status as an independent. It’s possible that Gail or you were familiar enough with my practice that this box was simply checked on my behalf but I try to be fairly attentive to these things because I’m concerned about the various standards that people use for independence. For some it means that they aren’t currently involved in the deal at hand while others take it to me that they can’t ever offer services of any kind to dealers or that they can’t sell so much as a jar of jewelry cleaner without violating the rules. There are, of course, as many interpretations of this term as there are appraisers and it leads to the same kind of abuse as the word ‘ideal’.

Stebbo,

Obviously each organization sets their own rules and I can’t speak for any of them but as a current member 3 and a former member of the other I must say that I see most as being pretty lenient. It takes quite a bit to be expelled although each maintains an ethics and professional practices system wherein members of the public can complain to the society about a member and it will trigger an investigation. Anyone who has a complaint or concern about a member or someone who claims to be a member of any of these groups should feel free to contact them directly. Contact information is on each of their websites. You WILL be taken seriously but what happens next will depend on the merits of your case.

JVC is something of a toothless tiger, rather like the BBB. The acronym stands for the Jewelers Vigilance Committee and they try to apply pressure on jewelers to behave in a sensible and legally compliant way. They are pretty familiar with the various laws surrounding the jewelry industry and for a nominal fee will write a few letters and make a few phone calls on behalf of a consumer to point these things out and to apply pressure on jewelers. They keep a list of unresolved problem jewelers and this can cause them some grief both with potential customers and potential suppliers in the future and they can expel their members for bad behavior but they have little power to force compliance from anyone who really doesn’t want to. They offer a terrific mediation service because they understand the issues of both sides and are pretty good at zeroing in and pointing out when someone is being unreasonable.

JBT is the Jewelers Board of Trade. It’s a credit bureau for jewelers. They offer a rating system that estimates the likelihood that a jeweler will pay their bills and is obviously useful for supplier firms in evaluating potential new clients. ‘Membership’ is basically a matter of subscribing to the service where you can read the reports on prospects and it has nothing directly to do with whether the member or their prospective client is behaving in a responsible way with their clients.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[find45di2]

THANKS for the replies everyone. This is some great information!

I researched the sites suggested and found the NAJA listed a few people a bit closer to my location. These independent appraisers seem to be placed in jewelry stores and such.

I spoke with one who said they charge $120 per hour and it is mandatory that they remove the stone, and reset it. They said I can make an appointment and bring it in.

The next place I called said that they charge $65 per hour. They said it would be fine if I left it in the setting and would prefer not to remove it. They said that I would bring my stone in, they would use a microscope to show me immediate characteristics so I know this stone is mine, and that I am getting the same back from what I see. They said I would have to leave the ring with them for 1 full week.

The person listed in my location from the PS list that is 2 hours away said that she charges $120 per hour if I remember correctly. I would rather not drive the 2 hours since these others are either 20 minutes or 40 minutes away.

Is this common practice? The place that removes the stone sounded like they are the closest and would do it while I was there I think, but I want to be sure it is done right. Thoughts?

 

[denverappraiser]

Under normal appraisal type circumstances I’m not a big fan of removing and resetting stones. It can damage the stone, the mounting or both and there usually is no convincing reason for it. There are some thing that can be done better with an unmounted stone including getting an actual weight, better measurements of the various angles and consequently better cut grading and better color grading but for pre-loss insurance type work this rarely justifies the risk.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

 

[stebbo]

• 
  
  

  Date: 9/14/2007 11:44:45 AM
  Author: denverappraiser
  Dave,
  
  Stebbo,
  
  JBT is the Jewelers Board of Trade. It’s a credit bureau for jewelers. They offer a rating system that estimates the likelihood that a jeweler will pay their bills and is obviously useful for supplier firms in evaluating potential new clients. ‘Membership’ is basically a matter of subscribing to the service where you can read the reports on prospects and it has nothing directly to do with whether the member or their prospective client is behaving in a responsible way with their clients.
  
  Neil Beaty
  GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
  Professional Jewelry Appraisals in Denver

So would boasting membership of the JBT mean anything for the consumer? Could a consumer ring up and ask if a vendor generally pays their bills, or must the vendor grant permission to be checked? A bad report would turn me off a vendor I knew little else about, for example.

 

[stebbo]

Date: 9/13/2007 11:45:08 PM
Author:find45di2


Anyone have any recommendations about how to get this thing appraised so I can be sure I am getting what I paid for???? HELP ME

Removing the stone will allow the GIA grades to be verified, but your stone was predominantly priced according to the GIA report, regardless of the accuracy of the report. If knowing you got what you paid for is the concern, then you only need to know that your stone matches the report--no removal necessary. Other pricing influences also can be done mounted to my knowledge, but I''m sure Neil/Dave will correct me if I''m wrong.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 9/14/2007 7:24:46 PM
Author: stebbo
So would boasting membership of the JBT mean anything for the consumer? Could a consumer ring up and ask if a vendor generally pays their bills, or must the vendor grant permission to be checked? A bad report would turn me off a vendor I knew little else about, for example.

Membership in the JBT is kind of expensive and it represents a serious commitment to the industry so I think it adds a certain amount of credibility for a company to buy the membership. It’s also evidence that someone is interested in doing business that involves extending credit to jewelers. This could, perhaps, lend some credence to a claim of being a ‘wholesaler’. JBT won’t give you a credit report on anyone unless you pay and I don’t think they have a service to sell a single report so it’s not very useful for consumers.

Some jewelers (and me for example) will mention that they are ‘listed’ in the JBT. This means that their credit has been reviewed by JBT, that we have given permission to release it and that their information is available for members who wish to look. Presumably their record says good things about them. I do this because my out of town customers will ask dealers to send diamonds to me for inspection without being paid first and a dealer with any sense needs to consider MY creditworthiness before agreeing to such a thing. This too is evidence of a reasonably well-established company that has been paying their bills but I don’t think JBT would provide it to you and it’s the nature of a credit reporting service that you can’t really believe the subject when they tell you that they have a terrific credit rating. After all, the ne’er-do-wells will simply lie.

All in all, no I don’t think JBT membership or even listing is a very useful bit of information for consumers in evaluating a vendor.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 9/14/2007 3:34:30 PM
Author: find45di2

I spoke with one who said they charge $120 per hour and it is mandatory that they remove the stone, and reset it. They said I can make an appointment and bring it in.

You should know this practice will void most seller warranties. Also, I''d find out who is liable if the appraiser damages the stone or setting during his removal-reset?

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Don't have the stone removed and reset. It's just not necessary, and is looking for trouble.

Possible chipping upon pulling, chipping upon resetting, metal fatigue from bending the prongs, voided warranties, etc, etc, etc.

I'm amazed that an appraiser would have that policy, especially with a certed stone.

 

[find45di2]

Great feedback all around and thank you for the advice. I agree that it definitely doesn''t seem right that they would want to completely remove the stone. I am not looking for an entire report, just enough to say I got exactly what the cert says, and what I paid for. I guess I will consider having it appraised after I give it since I will be able to see the teeny tiny inclusion from the side of the stone.

You have all been such a great help, thanks for the replies!