Gender free children?

[trillionaire]

July 1, 2009, 12:53 pm
Keeping the Gender of a 2-Year-Old Secret
By Lisa Belkin

During last week’s discussion of whether couples choose to learn the sex of their baby before he or she is born, a number of you said you wanted to keep the secret as long as possible, because the moment people hear “boy” or “girl” they begin to make assumptions about a child.

One couple in Sweden decided to take that logic a few steps further, and are refusing to tell anyone whether their toddler is a boy or a girl.

The child — called Pop in Swedish papers to protect his or her identity — is now two-and-a-half-years-old, and only a handful of close relatives (those who have changed the child’s diaper) know the sex. Pop’s parents, who are both 24, say they made this decision in the hope of freeing their child from the artificial construct of gender.

“We want Pop to grow up more freely and avoid being forced into a specific gender mould from the outset,” Pop’s mother told the Swedish newspaper Svenska Dagbladet last spring. “It’s cruel to bring a child into the world with a blue or pink stamp on their forehead.”

Pop wears dresses, and also “male” styled pants, and Pop’s hairstyle changes often, from traditionally feminine to traditionally masculine (and, one would imagine, to some untraditional styles now and then.)

The online Swedish newspaper, The Local, quotes Anna Nordenström, a pediatric endocrinologist at the Karolinska Institutet, who won’t even hazard a guess as to the long-term effect such an upbringing could have on a child:

“It will affect the child, but it’s hard to say if it will hurt the child,” says Nordenström, who studies hormonal influences on gender development.

“I don’t know what they are trying to achieve. It’s going to make the child different, make them very special.”

She says if Pop is still “genderless’” by the time he or she starts school, Pop will certainly receive a lot of attention from classmates.

“We don’t know exactly what determines sexual identity, but it’s not only sexual upbringing,” says Nordenström. “Gender-typical behaviour, sexual preferences and sexual identity usually go together. There are hormonal and other influences that we don’t know that will determine the gender of the child.”

Pop will soon welcome a brother, or a sister. Pop’s parents will not reveal the sex of that child, either, except, perhaps, to Pop.

**********************

Can''t wait to hear responses to this one...

 

[Haven]

That''s definitely interesting.

My aunt was very much against putting that pink stamp onto her first daughter''s forehead, so to speak, so my first cousin was raised with gender neutral toys and diversions, and she was encouraged to explore activities that she found genuinely interesting. Family and friends were asked to please only give her gender neutral toys as gifts, etc.

At age 6, her favorite thing in the world are the Disney princesses, she wears only pink, and she refuses to wear pants, only dresses will do. She is quite a girly little diva, despite the fact that her environment provided gender neutral stimuli.

I don''t know what that says about the whole issue, but I do find it kind of hilarious. My aunt embraces her daughter''s choices, although I''m sure they are not what she expected.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 7/1/2009 1:52:40 PM
Author: Haven
That's definitely interesting.

My aunt was very much against putting that pink stamp onto her first daughter's forehead, so to speak, so my first cousin was raised with gender neutral toys and diversions, and she was encouraged to explore activities that she found genuinely interesting. Family and friends were asked to please only give her gender neutral toys as gifts, etc.

At age 6, her favorite thing in the world are the Disney princesses, she wears only pink, and she refuses to wear pants, only dresses will do. She is quite a girly little diva, despite the fact that her environment provided gender neutral stimuli.

I don't know what that says about the whole issue, but I do find it kind of hilarious. My aunt embraces her daughter's choices, although I'm sure they are not what she expected.

interesting story, Haven!

I guess even if a family is gender neutral, society is not.

I think maybe it could be 'freeing' for a small child to be gender neutral, but with society as it is, a gender neutral adult is likely to experience judgment and harsh treatment, so in the long run, I do question the benefit... is that really what is best for the child? Who knows.

 

[neatfreak]

While we fully intend to raise our boys with the knowledge that they can play barbies, do ballet, whatever they want-I think it''s weird to force a child to be genderless.

There''s a difference between opening up your child''s mind by allowing them to play with toys/games that are traditionally only one gender and going so far as to make your child a laughingstock at school.

JMO...

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I think it is totally odd. Period.

 

[elrohwen]

Very weird. And I don''t quite see the point either. Would they be disappointed if the child developed stereotypical gender traits anyway?

I also think being raised as no gender has the potential to be way more psychologically confusing/scarring than being raised as one or the other.

 

[trillionaire]

Date: 7/1/2009 2:14:38 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
I think it is totally odd. Period.

I understand that ''sex'' and ''gender'' are not the same thing, but kids are naturally curious and expressive. I wonder what they are teaching the child to keep the child from revealing it''s own ''sex''. Little boys love to play with their ''little boys'', and most like to tell you about it! What bathroom will they teach the child to use? Because even if it doesn''t matter to it, it often matters to everyone else... unless all Swedish bathrooms are unisex.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 7/1/2009 2:25:53 PM
Author: trillionaire

Date: 7/1/2009 2:14:38 PM
Author: Italiahaircolor
I think it is totally odd. Period.

I understand that ''sex'' and ''gender'' are not the same thing, but kids are naturally curious and expressive. I wonder what they are teaching the child to keep the child from revealing it''s own ''sex''. Little boys love to play with their ''little boys'', and most like to tell you about it! What bathroom will they teach the child to use? Because even if it doesn''t matter to it, it often matters to everyone else... unless all Swedish bathrooms are unisex.

To me, it seems like a couple of young parents trying to be "hip"...but it just comes off wrong, in my opinion.

Children need to develop identities...it''s fine a for a girl to like football, and boy enjoy ballet, but we''re not talking gender nutural activities--we''re talking about totally nullifying a children gender identity.

It''s borderline criminal.

 

[LAJennifer]

Date: 7/1/2009 2:03:04 PM
Author: neatfreak
While we fully intend to raise our boys with the knowledge that they can play barbies, do ballet, whatever they want-I think it''s weird to force a child to be genderless.


There''s a difference between opening up your child''s mind by allowing them to play with toys/games that are traditionally only one gender and going so far as to make your child a laughingstock at school.


JMO...

Ditto this. I also think they are just confusing that child.

I remember my first birthday. I was sitting on the table, next to my birthday cake, while my 3 year old brother opened my presents for me. One in particular happened to be a cute, white, eyelet sundress. My brother took it out of the box and held it up to himself (as if he were "trying it on"). I had a really strong feeling that my brother did not belong in a dress. So, I completely understood gender at one year of age. I couldn''t talk yet, though, or perhaps I might have said something.

 

[Lilac]

I just think this is weird. The child is bound to get teased once he/she starts school and I just think it''s wrong to put him/her through this. I agree children should be able to wear what they want and play with what they want (and not just what they "should" want based on their sex/gender) but this just is weird to me.

 

[lyra]

They want their child to feel gender freedom, but in a way, they are forcing it to be gender-less. I don''t really believe in this "experiment". They are guiding things too much. This is not natural, it''s a social experiment.

Seems moot to me really. Anyone who grew up with older siblings of the opposite gender like I did probably played with all their "opposite gender" toys anyway. I had a fascination for toy trucks and airplanes for instance. I hated dresses. I was never forced into anything girly, not even hairstyles. No one made a big deal out of it and that was during the wild 60''s. Back in the day, our parents didn''t have the money to give us all gender specific things. We shared everything, including clothes if necessary. Luckily my brother was the oldest I guess. He did not have hand-me-downs.

 

[steph72276]

Ugh. Kind of makes me sick that they are experimenting on their children like lab rats.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Uh, yeah. Weird. . .what the parents are doing is wrong. They''re risking having their child have major identity issues as it grows older.

Also, Trillionaire - you''re right about the bathroom. What happens when the child takes swimming lessons? Only some pools have family changing rooms. Even if the parents do not want others to find out if the kid is a boy or girl, that doesn''t mean the child won''t look at people while changing. Also, is the kid going to wear swim trunks or alternate with swim suits so "it" experiences both?

I only bring this up because my kids are taking lessons during the summer and I picked a pool based on it having a family changing room.

 

[elrohwen]

MC, your post just reminded me that lots of little kids in Sweden don't even wear swimming suits (at least according to my aunt who's lived there for 15 years or so). Even at public pools they often run around in the buff when they're toddlers, so don't you think the kid is going to figure it out? Swedish people seem to be very open with their bodies and this little kid is going to quickly figure out which group he/she belongs to (and everyone else is going to figure it out too).

Funny story, my aunt sent us pictures of her son nekkid at the beach when he was 3 or so. My mom told her that she should watch it, because sending that stuff through snail mail counts as child **** over here

 

[sunnyd]

In college I took a Sociology of Sexuality class. We watched a documentarry about twin boys, one of which was raised as a girl because injuries to his penis during a circumcision resulted in the removal of it. When he was 20 or something, he found out what had happened to him. He had a sex change operation to become male (again), but he was so depressed that he eventually killed himself.

Completely depressing story, but my point in sharing it is that people either feel like a boy, or they feel like a girl. So even if they raised this kid without gender clues, he/she's going to figure it out eventually. I agree, sick science experiment.

 

[cara]

Transgender people (mismatch between body''s gender and mind''s gender) are definitely at higher suicide risk, and there can be great mental harm when parents or medical professionals "pick" a gender for a kid with ambiguous genitalia and get it wrong. In the lines of sunnyd''s example, it used to be that little boys born with abnormally small penises would have reconstructive surgery performed to make them look more like a normal girl (as the surgeons find it easier to make a hole than a pole)... completely ignoring that there are hormonal and brain development issues that can''t be fixed by surgery. Instead of picking for the child, I think that the current approach is that you are supposed to do no surgery in infancy and let the kid pick as they age... And then around puberty you can supplement with surgery or hormones the gender that is most in line with the kid''s brain, as that is what causes the most difficulties. However, this approach can be extremely distressing for parents, as you can imagine some parents and communities will have a difficult time with such a concept as in-between male and female.

In that light, I would guess that raising a gender-neutral young child isn''t so bad, if the kid is given the age-appropriate freedom to self-identify. As in, when the kid is old enough to pick their own outfits, they are allowed to pick their own outfits. If the kid loves toy guns and hates My Little Pony, they are not forced to play with the ponies. However, I can''t see how the parents could impose their "gender-neutral" preference on their kid in a way that doesn''t *require* the kid to suppress any of their own instincts as well as keep a "secret" past, say, early elementary school. At the latest. Some three year olds seem to have pretty strong preferences and gendered self-identity. Need better developmental psych words to describe what I am trying to say. Surely we must have some psers that know of research on this topic?

 

[drk]

I''m with cara and sunnyd. We studied ambiguous genitalia in med school, and cara''s so right about the current approach, based on what past experience has shown to be most harmful to the child.
I think these parents are nuts to take this to the extreme that they have. Sure, give the child the opportunity to wear whatever clothes it wants, and play with whatever toys it likes. But let it have the opportunity to identify with the male or female sex. I know I mostly preferred playing with "boy''s" toys (mostly my brother''s) when I was little (electric racecars, log cabin building set, though I had my own mechano set). I did also love my stuffed animals, and had fun with barbie from time to time. I was mostly into reading, and not terribly sporty.
My parents certainly let us pick what we were interested in. And they encouraged us to not have gender stereotypes academically. We did extra math workbooks at home (probably me more than my brother), read a ton. That probably explained why I excelled at math and science in school, and ended up with a degree in engineering physics and electrical engineering. And later went on to med school and ended up in anesthesia (not ob/gyn, psych, family medicine, or peds, which are probably more common "female" specialities).
I feel pretty sorry for this kid and its future sibling. Hope the parents have a lot of money to spend on psychiatrist visits later on in their lives!

Kate

 

[packrat]

I don''t get it. Boys can do "girl" things (dance, play w/dolls whatever) and girls can do "boy" things (hunt, fish, be a trucker for crying out loud) but you''re still either a boy or a girl. I don''t see the point in what they''re doing. Blah blah, gender neutral-it''s not exactly gender neutral, when the child *is* what it *is*-gazillions of parents have encouraged their girl children to play w/trucks, be on the football or wrestling team etc, and gazillions of parents have encouraged their children in dance etc-but I don''t think it''s newsworthy. I think the parents made it newsworthy themselves by announcing they won''t announce their child''s gender. Will they encourage the child to experiment w/both sexes to find out which he/she prefers? When the child gets married, (if, I guess) will they encourage him to wear a tux during part of the ceremony and a dress the next?

Boys have a penis, girls have a vagina-the kid would I assume, be taught this, so would know what he/she is, so unless the child is living in a bubble, wouldn''t the child at some point see what other boys/girls are doing and want to emulate that?

I think these people are strange and I feel sorry for the child. It''s hard enough to be a kid nowadays, much less be told you''re "gender neutral" so you don''t really fit in anywhere.

 

[purrfectpear]

I would prefer for these parents to practice gender neutrality on their own selves. Let daddy wear skirts, and mommy wear suits to their hearts content, but stop with the experimenting on an innocent child. Sheesh, what kind of message does it send to a toddler that they need to keep their boy or girlness a big secret

I let my son play with whatever toys he felt like picking up. He was never told that "boys don''t cry" or anything else that was gender restrictive. He wore pink or whatever color he thought was cool. You can let your kids throw off gender "rules" without making them the weird one of the neighborhood.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

I thought about this a lot today...and I reminded me, in a way, of something I learned in my child psych class in college (round one)

There is a tribe in South America that has been so imbred over time that most children are born girls. The girls are for the most part raised gender neutral because upon puberty, some girls will go through a transition of gender and become boys. Their "love button" will grow into a penis...ovaries drop and become testicals, they thicken in muscle mass, and grow body hair in "male" areas.

I tried to reseach this online, to include a link in to further information, but wasn''t able to find anything...just thought that the fact alone would be an interesting point to add...

 

[TravelingGal]

Good grief, if you want to conduct science experiments, get a microscope and some petri dishes and be done with it!

 

[Kaleigh]

Sounds odd to me. I think kids need to identify with the sex that they are. I am all for girls playing with trucks, and boys playing with dolls if they want... But to withold that sexual identity from a child will only confuse the child more??

 

[Sha]

Date: 7/1/2009 6:52:09 PM
Author: sunnyd
In college I took a Sociology of Sexuality class. We watched a documentarry about twin boys, one of which was raised as a girl because injuries to his penis during a circumcision resulted in the removal of it. When he was 20 or something, he found out what had happened to him. He had a sex change operation to become male (again), but he was so depressed that he eventually killed himself.

Completely depressing story, but my point in sharing it is that people either feel like a boy, or they feel like a girl. So even if they raised this kid without gender clues, he/she''s going to figure it out eventually. I agree, sick science experiment.

I saw this documentary too - it was very sad. they tried to raise this boy as a girl, but all along he ''felt'' inside that he wasn''t really supposed to be a girl. He preferred boy activities, including rough and tumble play - and was often shunned by the girls he tried to play it, because he was so ''rough. He walked and acted like a boy - even though he ''appeared'' to be a girl on the outside. It was definitely confusing and upsetting to him, to feel like he was a boy inside (which he really was), but to have everyone else tell him that he really was a girl.

Just goes to show that gender is more than just a social construct - it''s also biological. I don''t agree with this experiment because of that.

 

[iheartscience]

Hmm...I wonder if the child really cares at this point? I think that as long as the parents allow the child to choose his/her activities and develop his/her preferences, it can''t be *that* damaging to not be known (to society) as a boy or a girl.

I have two 2 year old nieces (not twins-one''s my brother''s and one''s my sister''s) and I don''t think either of them has ever even mentioned gender, being a girl vs. being a boy, etc. Come to think of it, neither has my 4 year old nephew, either. He plays with "boy" toys but he also plays with his 2 year old sister''s "girl" toys, and vice versa.

If once the child gets older and starts wanting to dress a certain way or have a gendered hairstyle and the parents continue to force him/her to be "genderless," then I think it''s a whole other can of worms. But for now, it doesn''t seem as if it could be super damaging to the child.

 

[Italiahaircolor]

Date: 7/1/2009 10:48:32 PM
Author: thing2of2
Hmm...I wonder if the child really cares at this point? I think that as long as the parents allow the child to choose his/her activities and develop his/her preferences, it can''t be *that* damaging to not be known (to society) as a boy or a girl.

I have two 2 year old nieces (not twins-one''s my brother''s and one''s my sister''s) and I don''t think either of them has ever even mentioned gender, being a girl vs. being a boy, etc. Come to think of it, neither has my 4 year old nephew, either. He plays with ''boy'' toys but he also plays with his 2 year old sister''s ''girl'' toys, and vice versa.

If once the child gets older and starts wanting to dress a certain way or have a gendered hairstyle and the parents continue to force him/her to be ''genderless,'' then I think it''s a whole other can of worms. But for now, it doesn''t seem as if it could be super damaging to the child.

I don''t think it''s so much of a matter that the children isn''t being spoken to about his/her gender...it''s that they aren''t allowing his/her gender to even be relevant. They dress Pop as a girl one day...a boy the next. That isn''t normal, it isn''t healthy. It goes so far beyond playing with trucks or dolls...they are simply pretending like Pop''s gender is still undecided for the sake of just doing it. There isn''t a real reason in the whole world why this baby needs for this to be done...other than Pop''s parents feel like they can.

 

[Lynnie]

This just has me utterly confused...

So the parent''s aren''t teaching the kid in some way that there''s a difference between boys and girls??? Does the kid know if he''s a boy or a girl? Has the same "parts" as either mom or dad?

It makes total sense to let kids choose their toys, etc... my brother used to LOVE dressing up in mom''s clothes, but this couple is definitely weird. How long do they plan to continue this? I guess they''re not gonna get the kid involved in sports (unless coed?)

Very strange.

 

[Girlrocks]

I think this article is very strange.

However, I am in total agreement that kids should not be put into a "boy" or "girl" box. My 5 year old daughter loves trucks, so for her past 2 birthdays, we have given her matchbox cars, race tracks. Her grandparents babysit for me a few hours a week, and her granddad and her love to go to the hobby shop and buy model cars to build together.

One of my 9 year old daughters I think really should have been a boy! She won''t wear skirts, and she is outside with her dad any chance she can get tinkering in the garage, doing yard work...this past weekend she spent 4 hours with him putting together our new grill, and they are going to install our new mailbox this weekend, and I think she is looking forward to using the post hole diggers more than the fireworks! She is an identical twin, and her sister couldn''t be more girly...she ALWAYS has to wear pink, loves dance and performing, sings non stop, can''t do any sort of physical exertion that could potentially mess up her hair or smear her lipgloss (chapstick!). One is going to play flag football in the fall, and her identical twin is going to be a cheerleader...they couldn''t be more different!

I have a nephew who loved vaccuum when he was about 2. So for his birthday that year, I ordered him a toy mini hoover real working vaccuum, and little dirt devil vaccuum toy and a housekeeping cart...my brother made some comments when my nephew opened the presents, but they were his favorite and still are his favorite things to play with almost 3 years later.

 

[monarch64]

I''ve heard of this before, can''t remember how long ago but it seems like in one of my women''s studies classes in college. As I recall, we read some story about a couple who named their child "X" and dressed it in black and white. I always thought it was kind of a cool idea. Not that I''d do it to my kid, but still, thought it was interesting.

 

[fatafelice]

I agree with many others that this doesn''t quite sound healthy. I have no problem with allowing children to make their own decisions about what they want to play with or wear in relation to gender, but I worry that in the name of maintaining this neutraility, they are forcing the child to *supress* some natural instincts, whatever those may be.

 

[iheartscience]

Date: 7/2/2009 8:01:19 AM
Author: Italiahaircolor

Date: 7/1/2009 10:48:32 PM

Author: thing2of2

Hmm...I wonder if the child really cares at this point? I think that as long as the parents allow the child to choose his/her activities and develop his/her preferences, it can''t be *that* damaging to not be known (to society) as a boy or a girl.

I have two 2 year old nieces (not twins-one''s my brother''s and one''s my sister''s) and I don''t think either of them has ever even mentioned gender, being a girl vs. being a boy, etc. Come to think of it, neither has my 4 year old nephew, either. He plays with ''boy'' toys but he also plays with his 2 year old sister''s ''girl'' toys, and vice versa.

If once the child gets older and starts wanting to dress a certain way or have a gendered hairstyle and the parents continue to force him/her to be ''genderless,'' then I think it''s a whole other can of worms. But for now, it doesn''t seem as if it could be super damaging to the child.

I don''t think it''s so much of a matter that the children isn''t being spoken to about his/her gender...it''s that they aren''t allowing his/her gender to even be relevant. They dress Pop as a girl one day...a boy the next. That isn''t normal, it isn''t healthy. It goes so far beyond playing with trucks or dolls...they are simply pretending like Pop''s gender is still undecided for the sake of just doing it. There isn''t a real reason in the whole world why this baby needs for this to be done...other than Pop''s parents feel like they can.

But clothing is a social construct-it has nothing to do with gender inherently. It''s not instinctual for a girl to want to wear a dress. So I don''t see how dressing the kid in "boy" clothes and "girl" clothes is really damaging or unhealthy. Why do you think it is?

It seems to me that they''re trying to keep Pop from being influenced by societal norms about what it means to be a boy or a girl. I''m not saying I''d try to keep my kid''s gender a secret, but if I ever have a kid, I am going to try my hardest to keep society from forcing him/her into a gendered box.

I think my parents (and my mom especially) did an awesome job at letting my twin sister and I just be ourselves and not worry about being "girls." We were TOTAL tomboys, had short haircuts, and in maybe 4th grade I decided my nickname was too girly so I went by a more genderless name for years (think Nik instead of Nikky). People often thought my twin sister and I were little boys. My mom (or I) would tell them we weren''t, and that was that. I think because of my mom''s willingness to just let us do our own thing, we were immune to much of the pressures adolescent girls face in middle school and high school. We played outside all the time and we both excelled in soccer and field hockey. (To the point where we were on Olympic development teams.)

And my mom didn''t let anyone put us in a box. For example, in 5th grade my gym teacher called her into a parent/teacher conference and told her I was too competitive and aggressive when we played sports in class. My mom told her that she would NEVER be telling a boy''s parents this and that she wasn''t going to say a thing to me. My mom didn''t tell me this story until years later because she didn''t want me to feel like I couldn''t try my hardest at sports.

So I totally get why Pop''s parents are doing this. I hope that they won''t take it too far and give Pop a complex, but it doesn''t seem like not being known by society as a boy or a girl could be horribly damaging to a 2 year old.