Fur coats...

[Ninama]

If you''re opposed to wearing fur/leather *at all*, this question doesn''t really apply, but for those to do/would wear fur - how do you feel about exotics? I mean legal exotics... like lippi cat or vintage leopard.

I love fur... and the look of exotic, spotted fur. But I find I have some weird resistance to lippi (geoffrey''s cat) and not to, say, a 40 year old leopard coat. This is for sale in IL (but can''t cross state lines due to U.S. Department of Fish and Wildlife Service regulations):

 

[Ninama]

This new lippi coat is available at Neiman Marcus...

 

[somethingshiny]

Ninama~

I''m not opposed to all furs/leathers. But, I wouldn''t wear a fur/leather that was the only thing that came from that animal. In other words, I don''t mind cow leather because we''re going to eat the cow anyway (at least some of us are.) But, I don''t like mink, because they were used for nothing but fashion. I''m not opposed to furs that were taken from animals due to overpopulation and conservation issues, but I don''t know if that applies to this particular kind.

Also, because only a live animal can grow and take car of it''s hair, I''ve never seen an older fur coat that looked good. That new coat is very pretty, I''d say it''s up to you if you want to wear it.

 

[AmberGretchen]

Honestly, fur really creeps me out. I feel a little hypocritical saying that, because I do wear (and love) leather, even though I''m a strict vegetarian, but I just can''t get my head around the idea of actually wanting to war something made of animal fur. Of course, I was just outside Neiman''s the other day and they had those protesters with the signs showing how they skin the animals alive and/or kill them in horrible inhumane ways, and I have to admit that those pictures now haunt me.

 

[Ninama]

Date: 12/13/2007 12:32:32 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Ninama~


I''m not opposed to all furs/leathers. But, I wouldn''t wear a fur/leather that was the only thing that came from that animal. In other words, I don''t mind cow leather because we''re going to eat the cow anyway (at least some of us are.) But, I don''t like mink, because they were used for nothing but fashion. I''m not opposed to furs that were taken from animals due to overpopulation and conservation issues, but I don''t know if that applies to this particular kind.


Also, because only a live animal can grow and take car of it''s hair, I''ve never seen an older fur coat that looked good. That new coat is very pretty, I''d say it''s up to you if you want to wear it.

I understand that it''s up to me - I''m just a little surprised at myself for *feeling* a difference at all. I guess it''s about the potential inflamed reactions. I haven''t worn exotic fur, so I''m just imagining.

To me, meat and fur are on a par (morally equivalent, some might say) because they both involve the death of animals to augment the lives of humans. The life and death of virtually all commercial livestock is brutal - but with some instruction, anyone can do without animal protein in their diet. I think those who say "meat is necessary" are really saying "meat is tasty and convenient". I hear "fur is murder" - I think "meat is fur". Carnivorism is a food fashion... a style of eating.

 

[Ninama]

Date: 12/13/2007 1:07:23 PM
Author: AmberGretchen
Honestly, fur really creeps me out. I feel a little hypocritical saying that, because I do wear (and love) leather, even though I''m a strict vegetarian, but I just can''t get my head around the idea of actually wanting to war something made of animal fur. Of course, I was just outside Neiman''s the other day and they had those protesters with the signs showing how they skin the animals alive and/or kill them in horrible inhumane ways, and I have to admit that those pictures now haunt me.

Well, leather is basically fur - with the hairs removed. The animals killed for leather often die the same deaths as those killed for fur. I guess it''s not always economically feasable to wait to be certain that an animal is dead before having at it.

This is the emotional twist.. if it doesn''t look like it involved cruelty, many - who would be sickened by the back story - find it acceptable. A bright red patent leather purse bears no resemblance to it''s origin...

 

[Miscka]

Date: 12/13/2007 12:32:32 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Ninama~

I'm not opposed to all furs/leathers. But, I wouldn't wear a fur/leather that was the only thing that came from that animal. In other words, I don't mind cow leather because we're going to eat the cow anyway (at least some of us are.) But, I don't like mink, because they were used for nothing but fashion. I'm not opposed to furs that were taken from animals due to overpopulation and conservation issues, but I don't know if that applies to this particular kind.

Also, because only a live animal can grow and take car of it's hair, I've never seen an older fur coat that looked good. That new coat is very pretty, I'd say it's up to you if you want to wear it.

Well FWIW I just received a fur that was my GREAT grandmothers and it looks brand new. It wasn't worn much and kept well, it looks great. I don't actually know how old it is, but it has to be pretty old!

I don't have much to contribute, Ninama, but I have to say that you make some very good points re:leather and eating meat. Carnivorism as food fashion...never thought of it that way. I am a vegetarian. And I like that coat.

 

[fleur-de-lis]

Ew. Sorry.

Consistent with that "using all of the animal" philosophy that seems noble in historical accounts of native americans on the plains in centuries past, the use of leather seems to be a good thing if a culture which eats the underlying animal (cows) and finds underlying purposes for the non-edible portions. But ripping the skin off of a wild cat or leopard (and giving it an ambiguous name to so the uninformed don''t get grossed out) and then wearing it? WAAAAY too Cruella deVille IMO.

 

[Ninama]

Date: 12/13/2007 1:39:50 PM
Author: fleur-de-lis
Ew. Sorry.


Consistent with that ''using all of the animal'' philosophy that seems noble in historical accounts of native americans on the plains in centuries past, the use of leather seems to be a good thing if a culture which eats the underlying animal (cows) and finds underlying purposes for the non-edible portions. But ripping the skin off of a wild cat or leopard (and giving it an ambiguous name to so the uninformed don''t get grossed out) and then wearing it? WAAAAY too Cruella deVille IMO.

Well, I think name lippi cat is pretty unambiguous, but I''m game (no pun intended

)... what would it taste like? Really.... this question came up for me on Monday. I was wearing a fur of dubious origin that passes the visual litmus test - no gross out. Somewhere in the discussion, between the sensuous strokes and gasps of horror (by the same people!) I was told/asked, "You wouldn''t eat a tigerburger! Would you?" I said I would - if it were legal and delicious.

 

[Julianna]

Date: 12/13/2007 1:18:57 PM
Author: Ninama

Well, leather is basically fur - with the hairs removed. The animals killed for leather often die the same deaths as those killed for fur. I guess it''s not always economically feasable to wait to be certain that an animal is dead before having at it.

This is the emotional twist.. if it doesn''t look like it involved cruelty, many - who would be sickened by the back story - find it acceptable. A bright red patent leather purse bears no resemblance to it''s origin...

Good points, all! I don''t wear fur because I think I look goofy in it and for some reason I associate it only with rich people and I''d feel strange if I had a fur, as I don''t have the money to back up the look. Hee hee.

That coat is gorgeous!

 

[princesss]

Honestly, I wear the fur of animal''s I''ll eat. Which usually limits me to rabbit, but there you go. So I wouldn''t get the coat. I definitely wouldn''t be upset if I saw somebody wearing it, but it would give me the heebie-jeebies.

 

[DiamanteBlu]

I have always worn fur as have most of the female members of my family if they could buy one. All my furs are old - the long red fox [which I wear almost every day wherever I go - gym, grocery store, bank, etc.] is 25 or so years old and I get compliments on it just about every day [even though the cuffs are worn but nobody seems to notice]. Then I have the black mink stroller I bought in 1981!!! It still looks great but is too short when it is really cold. I used to have them stored but have not for the past dozen years or so.

I am currently in the market for a new long fur with hood [I am perpetually cold - I even have fur boots] so I am shopping. I''m thinking of a solid color mink for daily wear since it is simple and durable. It would have to be an interesting style, though. Also, Fendi is showing some very nice pieces again [last time I looked they were very deconstructed and floppy-looking - not my style].

I have no experience in owning or wearing an exotic fur, though so I don''t know what to suggest from experience. I, personally, would not get a vintage leopard but I can''t tell you exactly why. I am just a bit uncomfortable with it. Maybe it is the hunted v. raised issue [leopard was hunted]. I know nothing of the lippi but seeing its pic I can say it is not something I would lean towards [too kitty like, perhaps? dunno.]. I''m not sure how I''d do with lynx - maybe yes, maybe no. Have you thought about that as a possibility?

 

[Ninama]

Date: 12/13/2007 2:48:06 PM
Author: DiamanteBlu
I have always worn fur as have most of the female members of my family if they could buy one. All my furs are old - the long red fox [which I wear almost every day wherever I go - gym, grocery store, bank, etc.] is 25 or so years old and I get compliments on it just about every day [even though the cuffs are worn but nobody seems to notice]. Then I have the black mink stroller I bought in 1981!!! It still looks great but is too short when it is really cold. I used to have them stored but have not for the past dozen years or so.


I am currently in the market for a new long fur with hood [I am perpetually cold - I even have fur boots] so I am shopping. I''m thinking of a solid color mink for daily wear since it is simple and durable. It would have to be an interesting style, though. Also, Fendi is showing some very nice pieces again [last time I looked they were very deconstructed and floppy-looking - not my style].


I have no experience in owning or wearing an exotic fur, though so I don''t know what to suggest from experience. I, personally, would not get a vintage leopard but I can''t tell you exactly why. I am just a bit uncomfortable with it. Maybe it is the hunted v. raised issue [leopard was hunted]. I know nothing of the lippi but seeing its pic I can say it is not something I would lean towards [too kitty like, perhaps? dunno.]. I''m not sure how I''d do with lynx - maybe yes, maybe no. Have you thought about that as a possibility?

But the farm or ranched raised animal didn''t live a ''happy'', natural life. Instead it was held in austere captivity until it''s number came up. Animals raised for fur don''t have a lush life. I get the sentiment... it''s one of the things that crosses the mind.

 

[DiamanteBlu]

Yeah, I hear you on the captivity thing. As I said, I can't pinpoint the source for my slight feeling of discomfort so who knows what it really is. I was just guessing. BTW, I also get that weird feeling sometimes when I look at meat, chicken or fish. It seems to pass pretty quickly when I'm hungry, though.

 

[littlelysser]

I wear leather coats and shoes - don''t really have a problem with either. I don''t really equate wearing leather shoes or wearing a toned down fur coat with wearing a big old leopard fur coat.

And well, I must say, I''ve never seens someone wearing either leopard or lippi cat in real life, but I think it is kind of vomitious and over the top.

Something about it is so top of the food chain and totally uneccesary and well, you''d be wearing a LEOPARD or another wild cat. Something that is really beautiful and amazing in the wild...wearing it for your own selfish enjoyment. Yuck. Cause you clearly aren''t wearing it just for warmth (there are other, much less "look at me" types of fur) - you are doing it for people to look and getting that attention by wearing a dead leopard...yuck.

Wow. Didn''t know I felt so strongly about this...

 

[risingsun]

I can't get past feeling that spotted fur belongs on a spotted cat. I love the big cats and exotic furs just seem wrong. That extends to lynx and fox, as well. Just my personal feelings.

 

[VegasAngel]

Sure is pretty. I dont think I could wear a fur coat with such a striking pattern though.

 

[Mannequin]

As long as it isn''t illegally trapped and the animals were raised for the purpose, I have no problem with fur coats in general. Family members wear furs and leather all the time, as do I. The exotic furs like the OP posted, however? Maybe it''s one too many zoo trips as a kid or something, but I am a bit squeamish about the idea because I like the big cats. I have a faux fur leopard coat that is really cute, but I would never wear real leopard or lippi.

I actually got my first fur over the summer. My mother was eBaying as she recovered from her cancer treatments and she ordered this coat originally for herself, but ended up giving it to me. We had it cleaned and appraised, and her $100 coat became a $2500 investment - sweet!

I really like it, especially the V pattern on the back, and now that the weather is truly cold here, I am looking forward to wearing it. It''s muskrat fur with a raccoon collar. Picture attached.

 

[partgypsy]

Those pictures just make me feel ...sad.

As someone who loves to look at the big cats in the zoo, the fur looks alot better on the live animal. Though I do not perfectly acheive this, I agree with the American Indian (or really alot of people''s) sentiment, that if you are going to kill an animal, to make the most of the animal by maximizing it''s use. The look of wearing cat fur (or giraffe, or any wild animal whose environment and survival is already threatened by humans) seems as someone said, over the top, but not in a good way.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I don''t think I could wear exotic cat fur. And my lifestyle is not one where I could really wear fur anyway. Not to mention it has been close to 80 degrees here all week! The thought of a fur coat just never occurs to me!

My feelings over it have changed over time, though. I really do believe some animals were created with the intent of their being used for food or clothing. I can''t think that minks have a whole lot of other purpose than to provide fur. So I am not really opposed to that. And I think Equestrienne''s coat looks great for a western person or horse person, or whatever the correct term may be!

 

[Odilia]

As usual Diamondseeker''s thoughts are similar to my own. My DH''s aunt gave me her old fur coat, and I think it is beautiful (although I''m having trouble getting a musty smell out - any suggestions are welcome). I also don''t find much occasion to wear it, although it''s colder in MD than NC, but I don''t have that many dressy occasions where it seems appropriate. Also, when I got it I thought, for anyone who is against wearing fur, the minks that made this coat died probably before I was born, and it doesn''t help them any for me to throw that coat away! (which would also be true of the 40 year old leopard coat) And although I personally don''t really have a problem with the exotic furs you are asking about, my first thought as I read your question was, that in wearing it, you might provoke a lot of people who do have a problem with it, as the responses to this thread shows! And, as VegasAngel said, I dont think I could wear a fur coat with such a striking pattern.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

Date: 12/13/2007 6:29:29 PM
Author: old-fashioned girl
As usual Diamondseeker''s thoughts are similar to my own. My DH''s aunt gave me her old fur coat, and I think it is beautiful (although I''m having trouble getting a musty smell out - any suggestions are welcome). I also don''t find much occasion to wear it, although it''s colder in MD than NC, but I don''t have that many dressy occasions where it seems appropriate. Also, when I got it I thought, for anyone who is against wearing fur, the minks that made this coat died probably before I was born, and it doesn''t help them any for me to throw that coat away! (which would also be true of the 40 year old leopard coat) And although I personally don''t really have a problem with the exotic furs you are asking about, my first thought as I read your question was, that in wearing it, you might provoke a lot of people who do have a problem with it, as the responses to this thread shows! And, as VegasAngel said, I dont think I could wear a fur coat with such a striking pattern.

 

[Mannequin]

Date: 12/13/2007 5:28:24 PM
Author: diamondseeker2006
I don''t think I could wear exotic cat fur. And my lifestyle is not one where I could really wear fur anyway. Not to mention it has been close to 80 degrees here all week! The thought of a fur coat just never occurs to me!

My feelings over it have changed over time, though. I really do believe some animals were created with the intent of their being used for food or clothing. I can''t think that minks have a whole lot of other purpose than to provide fur. So I am not really opposed to that. And I think Equestrienne''s coat looks great for a western person or horse person, or whatever the correct term may be!

Thanks, DS! It''s really a nice coat. Two hooks on the front, leather underside on the sleeves to prevent rubbing, elegantly simple. I can wear it every day without feeling too pretentious.

It''s definitely got the lines of a classic horsewoman''s coat.

 

[Mara]

not a real fur fan at all. not a fur fan in general actually. it makes me think of an older generation for whatever reason. i don''t own a lot of faux stuff either. i do have a cutie bcbg puffy white jacket with some faux fur around the collar/hood but that''s about it. i also don''t like how some of the real fur stuff smells or knowing that it was an exotic animal that was killed so i could wear it''s beautiful mane. for leather or whatever, i don''t mind as it seems more useful (shoes etc) but for pure pleasure i wouldn''t choose to wear exotic furs.

 

[fisherofmengirly]

For whatever reason, whenever I think fur, I think of those old shrug type of things, what did they call them, "stoles" or something like that. The kind with the head still attached. Talk about freaking out. Not a fan. Not at all. I''m not a huge fan of leather, either, but I do have a leather jacket and I got one for Paul last Christmas. I also LOVE that shoes come in leather, because they''re so easy to clean! Fur, though, it''s a different story. I think mainly because I rationalize that leather is typically from animals that *can* be used for food (although I know this often isn''t what really happens to animals used for fur), and fur just seems like such a waste, like the poor animal lives just so we can rip the skin off it''s back and stick it to our own.

And when I see a spotted fur, I just want to pet the pretty kitty who died to be made into outerwear.

 

[partgypsy]

"I really do believe some animals were created with the intent of their being used for food or clothing. I can''t think that minks have a whole lot of other purpose than to provide fur." I think the mink would disagree.

Wow. That comment, or sentiment I find profoundly disturbing. That animals only right to exist as it benefits humans. Whether something can be exploited for profit is one question. Ethically, whether one should is entirely another. Maybe some people answer the first question but never get around to the second.

If most of forum posters agree with your sentiment, I think I am in the wrong forum. But it''s been fun.

 

[Ninama]

Date: 12/13/2007 3:27:00 PM
Author: littlelysser
I wear leather coats and shoes - don't really have a problem with either. I don't really equate wearing leather shoes or wearing a toned down fur coat with wearing a big old leopard fur coat.


And well, I must say, I've never seens someone wearing either leopard or lippi cat in real life, but I think it is kind of vomitious and over the top.


Something about it is so top of the food chain and totally uneccesary and well, you'd be wearing a LEOPARD or another wild cat. Something that is really beautiful and amazing in the wild...wearing it for your own selfish enjoyment. Yuck. Cause you clearly aren't wearing it just for warmth (there are other, much less 'look at me' types of fur) - you are doing it for people to look and getting that attention by wearing a dead leopard...yuck.


Wow. Didn't know I felt so strongly about this...

So... by that standard, a sheep or cow is less worthy of living, because it's less .... magnificent? Less good-looking? Less beautiful and amazing in the wild? As for much less "look at me" types of fur - do you think they're sanctionable?

Is eating prime filet mignon not top of the food chain selfish enjoyment?

 

[ursulawrite]

I find the fur trade pretty repulsive, actually. I was raised in the British countryside, and have many friends who shoot/fish (indeed, my father is a keen fisherman) but keeping animals locked in tiny cages while they go stir crazy is unacceptable to me. I only buy meat straight from the organic farmers'' market, and do not support factory farming--whether for meat or fur--in any capacity.

Alas, I am still waiting for a good leather alternative when it comes to smart winter boots. For now, I shall have to remain a hypocrite.

 

[VegasAngel]

Date: 12/13/2007 7:05:50 PM
Author: part gypsy
''I really do believe some animals were created with the intent of their being used for food or clothing. I can''t think that minks have a whole lot of other purpose than to provide fur.'' I think the mink would disagree.

Wow. That comment, or sentiment I find profoundly disturbing. That animals only right to exist as it benefits humans. Whether something can be exploited for profit is one question. Ethically, whether one should is entirely another. Maybe some people answer the first question but never get around to the second.

If most of forum posters agree with your sentiment, I think I am in the wrong forum. But it''s been fun.

I really hope you dont think that everyone should or will have the same opinion about fur. Some people like it, some dont.

 

[somethingshiny]

Ninama~

By reading your last several posts, I think you''ve made your decision. If you are defending a choice you haven''t even made this fiercely, I don''t think anyone who shouts "fur is murder" is going to stand a chance!


Like I said before, I like the new one much better than the old one. I got to thinking about one of my grandma''s furs. She kept it in a walk-in freezer. (at their house, many moons ago) try walking in on that