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familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
Hello, first off, I want to say thanks in advance to those who reply with honest advice, I like what I have seen on the site, much of what is said is consistent with my own research. I have been researching this purchase for 6 months and saving for almost 2 years to do this. I am excited but nervous, it’s a big spend for me. I have found some great possible stones but due to churn most are gone now that I have the funds, stones are slim and the price is up (IMO). I have a particular stone I really like on J.Allen but it is 1.5K out of my range. (attached) I will sacrifice on the setting but the stone matters. I also have found a few stones thru wholesalers, most have been EGL stones that grade higher than similar GIA stones but obviously are a grade (or 2) too high. I attached the cert. for one I like in particular. Some thoughts: Even if the color grade is taken down a notch it should be at least a J or K, the cut is nearly Ideal, Polish and Symmetry both excellent, it does have pronounced fluorescence, which should whiten the stone if it is not hazy, impossible to tell without a look, right?

Some other details about the requirements are below:

* Size: 1.40-1.60
* Shape -Round
* Desired Color Range –I to K
* Desired Clarity -VS1 is preferred but SI1, is ok, it just depends on the stone
* Budget -5k-6k


* The above comments are based on GIA or AGS grading standards. I would be happy with an EGL stone if it graded/met the same criteria as a similar GIA stone.

Thanks SO much for your time:)

Jonathan

James allen-1356486.jpg

24617.JPG
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
That EGL report is basically useless. The cut grade is based on percentage of crown and pavilion depth, 1 % step, that is a large range. The H&A image is not the actual image of the stone so that is useless too. Color and clarity grade can be more than 2 grades off, so beware.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,287
Unless she has really seen and wants a K color for some reason, I would not recommend going that low for an engagement ring. I color is a good compromise color with GIA and AGS stones, but you'd have to stay at G-H in EGL.
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
Thanks for the responses do far, a little clarification. The EGL stone is graded I, and the GIA stone from JA is a K. She has brown skin for contrast and cant tell the difference from i-k color sets we have been able to see. It is measurable but i really cant afford above 7k total. I have to compromise somewhere... It will either be set solitaire or with reverse tapered micro pave sidestones. Is the advice to stay away from the EGL stone due to for-profit grading and generally much lower quality for the $$ ?
Thanks!
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
If the EGL graded stone is really what GIA would grade it as, why would a jeweler not send it to GIA and sell it for a higher price?
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,730
Stone-cold11|1304293633|2909501 said:
If the EGL graded stone is really what GIA would grade it as, why would a jeweler not send it to GIA and sell it for a higher price?
This, unfortunately, is your answer about this stone. If it was all that it was said to be, it would be graded by a stricter lab and sold accordingly.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,730
Because of the recent price increases which have been substantial, something will have to give in your criteria for a stone. I would not give on the cut making color, clarity or size the most reasonable to reduce.

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-2531896.htm

This stone is smaller than what you were hoping for and it eats up your entire budget. Assuming that it is truly eye clean, it would give you a beautiful stone with a stellar cut and with a vendor that has a good trade-up policy if money and circumstances ever change to make you even consider an upgrade. To stay close to budget, you'd have to go with a simple setting. WF has some beautiful solitaire settings that aren't over the top price wise.

I realize that it is not in the size range you were hoping to reach but a smaller, well cut stone will be far more enjoyable than a mediocre cut stone any day. Just something to consider. . .
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,287
Just to be clear, the I color EGL stone is probably equivalent to a GIA K color. I like the stone MissGotRocks posted and think 1.2 cts. is more realistic if you want a well cut stone.
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
Thanks again for the comments, thx MissGotRocks for the recommendation on the whiteflash stone, that is a good stone for comparison. Beautiful Ideal cut. I am assuming that the JA stone is not being recommended because of the K color? The cut is Very Good but the recommendation is a GIA or AGS stone in G-I at a minimum?
Thx!
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
I guess it would be great if I could honestly get a good deal if I spent my time doing the research and was paying cash. I know I will have to compromise is some areas to get the largest stone. After talking with a broker (who was not trying to sell me a stone) that has done business with my uncle for years he agreed that color then clarity can be compromised first but never cut on a round stone. I like the EGL stone on paper but my only options are to buy it and inspect. I can return it for 100% back minus shipping. I just don't want the hassle if it is by real standards a SI1, color K with florescence that could instead of whitening it a grade, make it hazy. Tough choices... The James Allen product (GIA) should be very ideally represented, as it is a K in color is the general consensus that this is just too colored? Most of the other recommendations only went up one grade? Much thanks for your comments:)
 

plasma800

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
48
They are right about whiteflash. I have been there in person and I can tell you without doubt, anything from there is going to be first rate.
 

MissGotRocks

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jun 23, 2005
Messages
12,730
familyman|1304367046|2910305 said:
I guess it would be great if I could honestly get a good deal if I spent my time doing the research and was paying cash. I know I will have to compromise is some areas to get the largest stone. After talking with a broker (who was not trying to sell me a stone) that has done business with my uncle for years he agreed that color then clarity can be compromised first but never cut on a round stone. I like the EGL stone on paper but my only options are to buy it and inspect. I can return it for 100% back minus shipping. I just don't want the hassle if it is by real standards a SI1, color K with florescence that could instead of whitening it a grade, make it hazy. Tough choices... The James Allen product (GIA) should be very ideally represented, as it is a K in color is the general consensus that this is just too colored? Most of the other recommendations only went up one grade? Much thanks for your comments:)
You are going to have to decide what is the deciding factor for you. If you want a well cut stone, you're going to have to go down in size for the money you have to spend. The EGL stone won't have a terrific cut - we can tell you that by the numbers and the fact that the EGL grading is soft. I don't know what you're seeing on the cert that you like except for perhaps the color and clarity that are almost assuredly not as represented on that cert. An accurately graded K color stone will show a fair amount of tint. Some people like that and even prefer the warmer colors but I would try to see some well cut K stones before I would go to the trouble of having one shipped to me. What does the vendor of the K color stone say about the color and the flourescence? They should be able to tell you whether the flour. helps or makes the stone look milky. I think most folks would rather have a well cut, better color stone for an ering - even if it is smaller than what you had originally hoped for. You can search threads here and see lots of well cut, J color stones that people find to face up to be beautiful stones.

The vendors here will ship out any stone to you after securing payment for it on a credit card or bank wire. If you don't like it, you may ship it back and only be out the shipping as well. Again, I'd rather have something coming to me that I thought could be a well cut desirable stone than take my chances having something shipped to me that I already know will be questionable at best.

You can always call any of these vendors and tell them what you are looking for and see what their recommendations are. They are very helpful, very well documented here, and work very hard to find you a stone that you and she will like. However, if you are leaning toward having the other stone shipped to you, go for it. I would want to take it to an independent (one that does NOT sell stones) appraiser to get their assessment of it. I would also want to make sure that the vendor has a trade in program and a return policy that is fair and reasonable.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,287
G-J is the near colorless range, and ideal cut stones mask the color pretty well face up in I-J color stones. So if you went with an AGS Ideal or GIA excellent cut stone, I think you'd be okay with J color. If you go lower, you need to think about other people looking at her diamond and thinking how yellow or tinted it is. There are some girls here who like K color and embrace it, but you will find the majority choosing J or higher color. That is my advice to you regarding color.

Fluorescence is rarely negative in a stone and can provide some discount. But again, I would only look at GIA Excellent or AGS Ideal because you will only get what you pay for with an EGL stone anyway. You just won't be sure of what you're really getting.
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
I am definitely leaning towards a different stone, I have the GIA stone on hold from J.Allen. I am going to scour a few more sights , whiteflash and others for comps. (again) but so far this one is the nicest I have found. I attached the full report for reference.
I want to again thank you all for the help, there is a steep learning curve to understand just the basics and I surely just have a rough picture of the dynamics. I will search for some smaller stones as well for comparison and keep this thread going until its a done deal.

K-VS2-Premium-Cut-1.JPG
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,287
That one has a "very good" cut grade because the girdle is very thin, and that should rule that stone out unless you are setting it in a bezel. Very thin girdles mean the stone could easily be chipped. Please limit yourself to GIA Excellent, ok?
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
Thanks for the reply! That makes sense that the thin girdle needs to be in a more protective setting. I have 2 more stones that I am including, the one attached below is SI1, Ideal cut and excellent all the way around. Table looks clean, GIA cert is attached. What is the consensus between this and the VS2 stone with the thin girdle? It is less than $100 more, lower clarity but better cut..

K-SI1-Ideal-Cut-1.JPG
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
56,287
This second one is probably not one of the better GIA Excellents due to the pavilion angle being 41.4. You usually try to have it between 40.6 to 41.0. It might have some leakage. Does the webpage show an Idealscope for that stone by chance? That would help us to see if there is a problem.
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
diamondseeker2006|1304373194|2910406 said:
This second one is probably not one of the better GIA Excellents due to the pavilion angle being 41.4. You usually try to have it between 40.6 to 41.0. It might have some leakage. Does the webpage show an Idealscope for that stone by chance? That would help us to see if there is a problem.
Nope. Not for this one. I wish..
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
Hello, a short update. I requested an idealscope for this stone and it should be ready later today. I have a few others on the radar, all gia ideals and one smaller stone a SI1, AGS triple 0, 1.31 in J color. I feel quite a bit more confident understanding what I am getting for $ spent. Thanks for all the helpful advice!
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
Well, much has happened. I finally decided on a stone. The more I learned.. the more I spent. (I think it works this way in this business) I bought the stone from Brian Gavin, it is one of his blues, AGS000, 1.51, VS1 in L. Yes, you can see some color but the mere presence of sunlight or UV contained light and it melts away. Angles were great and it rolled a 1.3 on the HCA so I was sold. After all, it must be a good product if the seller will buy it back at 100% selling price if you buy a different (BGB) stone from them down the road...
The BG Team has been really great to work with, not pushy, helpful but not condescending and the word on the street is what I experienced, kind and honest.

Pics to come.

Thanks for all your help here! It was a good time:)
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,709
BGD stones are lovely...I have a small blue one myself.
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
Here it is, a few glamor shots from BGD and a few of my own on macro mode. Any particular requests for pics, I probably took it?

Very happy with the finished product and outstanding service form BGD. Highly recommend.

BrianGavin_Solitaire2_051911.jpg

diffused sunlight.JPG

girdle.JPG

IMG_0785.JPG
 

familyman

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
14
One more thing, the fluorescence is def. there in direct sunlight. It also has some phosphorescence, after I hit it with the UV lamp it continued to glow dimly for about 30 sec. Pretty cool!
 

slg47

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2010
Messages
9,667
familyman it looks great!

after you propose please come back with handshots :)
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,709
Beautiful stone/ring! Congratulations!
 
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