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For the Techies: Questions about LGF%

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CinnamonTea

Rough_Rock
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84
This is going to be a questionable debate.

I have been searching for a FIC diamond as some of you all know.

I am considering a stone within the borderline of FIC/TIC.

I have been told that I should look for a FIC with Long LGF%

I have also been told I should look for a " just rb" with Short LGF%

This is why I am asking:

For this type of borderline FIC/TIC range stone, Should I opt for Long LGF% or Short LGF%

I am not an expert but I *think* I understand part of this complex issue.

I am going to *try* and do an example here so bear with me:

75 LGF % is considered short and 80 LGF % is considered long:

Stone #1- 75 LGF% http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131&item=955577

Stone #2- 76 LGF% http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?cid=53&item=955612

Stone #3- 77 LGF% http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-114944.htm

Stone #4- 78 LGF% ( have not found yet )

Stone #5- 79 LGF% ( have not found yet )

Stone #6- 80 LGF% ( have not found yet )
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
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Messages
13,324
.3-.4 cts, for a pendant. did you want a slightly shallow pav along with the extra fire TIC? for here or to go?

the right answer is: medium.
 

CinnamonTea

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
84
Date: 1/16/2007 7:38:17 PM
Author: JulieN
.3-.4 cts, for a pendant. did you want a slightly shallow pav along with the extra fire TIC? for here or to go?

the right answer is: medium.
Your funny, but your not an expert.
 

strmrdr

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 1, 2003
Messages
23,295
Both will give you the fire you want just in different ways.

A fic will be like a disco ball with small flashes of fire all over the place.
It should have long lgf% to avoid being too dark in some lighting conditions.

A tic with shorter lgf% will have larger flashes of fire than the fic but fewer of them.

In your size range and for a pendant where with a fic a lot of the small flashes are going to blend together the short lgf% tic with a slightly shallow pavilion sounds to me like a better pick.

In a larger size Id pick the fic.

Something like a new line ACA or the ES version of the same with a 40.6-40.7 pavilion is a reasonable option also.
They aren't my favorite diamonds but for something like this are a good choice.

As you see there isn't any one right answer but several good options.
 

CinnamonTea

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
84
Date: 1/16/2007 8:50:28 PM
Author: strmrdr
Both will give you the fire you want just in different ways.

A fic will be like a disco ball with small flashes of fire all over the place.
It should have long lgf% to avoid being too dark in some lighting conditions.

A tic with shorter lgf% will have larger flashes of fire than the fic but fewer of them.

In your size range and for a pendant where with a fic a lot of the small flashes are going to blend together the short lgf% tic with a slightly shallow pavilion sounds to me like a better pick.

In a larger size Id pick the fic.

Something like a new line ACA or the ES version of the same with a 40.6-40.7 pavilion is a reasonable option also.
They aren''t my favorite diamonds but for something like this are a good choice.

As you see there isn''t any one right answer but several good options.
Thanks so much this really helps me!

I''ve found a ton of stones but I still need to go through them again.
I will be using the HCA to narrow down some choices.
Scince most of the stones will be scoring the same, I figure a fellow pricescoper might want to help me choose the right one.

About the pendant/spread thing -

A TIC is going to give me a slightly larger appearance with a shallower pav- SO I think this is the way to go.

But that doesn''t mean i''m just going to settle for any old TIC, I still want to find something that is almost borderline TIC/FIC yet still has a shallow pav.

Yes I know I am picky, but hey at least I know thanks to pricescope I will be able to find what I want!
 

CinnamonTea

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
84
Date: 1/16/2007 9:25:38 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I agree with Storm C

I think you would be better off with a shallowish TIC with short LGF''s than an FIC for a pendant in a 1/3rd ct.

The new line or other painted diamonds with shortish LGF''s will also work.
I agree with both of you Garry. I think the trade off here is to find a stone that is a TIC yet near FIC yet still slightly shallow with short LGF%.

What makes it difficult is the fact that once you start to find short LGF% numbers you are seeing higher depth%.

No one said it was going to be easy. But I think I can pull it off. I will keep looking. Thanks.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 1/16/2007 7:33:31 PM
Author:CinnamonTea
This is going to be a questionable debate.

I have been searching for a FIC diamond as some of you all know.

I am considering a stone within the borderline of FIC/TIC.

I have been told that I should look for a FIC with Long LGF%

I have also been told I should look for a '' just rb'' with Short LGF%

This is why I am asking:

For this type of borderline FIC/TIC range stone, Should I opt for Long LGF% or Short LGF%

I am not an expert but I *think* I understand part of this complex issue.

I am going to *try* and do an example here so bear with me:

75 LGF % is considered short and 80 LGF % is considered long:

Stone #1- 75 LGF% http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?b=16&a=12&c=77&cid=131&item=955577

Stone #2- 76 LGF% http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?cid=53&item=955612

Stone #3- 77 LGF% http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-114944.htm

Stone #4- 78 LGF% ( have not found yet )

Stone #5- 79 LGF% ( have not found yet )

Stone #6- 80 LGF% ( have not found yet )
IMO 85 lgf is ''long''

Have you thought about what type of fire you want? broad or pin? the reason I''d want short lgf is because I''m a fan of big chunky fire. Have you seen dee jay''s ring? of course it''s HUGE but it has long lgf and in a very large stone like that I think you can get away with that more....
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 1/16/2007 7:48:03 PM
Author: CinnamonTea
See it says FOR the Techies ... this is suppose to mean Experts
techies and experts can be mutually exclusive yanno....
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,202
CT you are now officially pronounced a lost cause obsesive compulsive.

Enjoy your search

But please do not use HCA to narrow down - it is designed for broad searches whichh can be narrowed down by using other things (like eyes for eg)

Enough now - just buy a diamond any diamond and enjoy it please
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 1/16/2007 8:50:28 PM
Author: strmrdr
Both will give you the fire you want just in different ways.

A fic will be like a disco ball with small flashes of fire all over the place.
It should have long lgf% to avoid being too dark in some lighting conditions.

A tic with shorter lgf% will have larger flashes of fire than the fic but fewer of them.

In your size range and for a pendant where with a fic a lot of the small flashes are going to blend together the short lgf% tic with a slightly shallow pavilion sounds to me like a better pick.

In a larger size Id pick the fic.

Something like a new line ACA or the ES version of the same with a 40.6-40.7 pavilion is a reasonable option also.
They aren''t my favorite diamonds but for something like this are a good choice.

As you see there isn''t any one right answer but several good options.
I know my stone isn''t a round, but it has very short lgf, very high crown and it has fire all over the place - tons of pinfire and a round brilliant average amount of moderate sized fire.... but it isn''t dark... what light are you talking about storm that makes a diamond appear dark if it has FIC and short LGF?

Honestly if this is for a pendant i wouldn''t do FIC - I would get a shallower TIC/BIC borderline with very short LGF I''d do the opposite for a ring lol (but take this with salt because others would do *exactly* the opposite lol)
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 1/16/2007 9:25:38 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
I agree with Storm C

I think you would be better off with a shallowish TIC with short LGF''s than an FIC for a pendant in a 1/3rd ct.

The new line or other painted diamonds with shortish LGF''s will also work.
omg see I shoulda just read ahead LOL
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 1/16/2007 9:45:49 PM
Author: Garry H (Cut Nut)
CT you are now officially pronounced a lost cause obsesive compulsive.

Enjoy your search

But please do not use HCA to narrow down - it is designed for broad searches whichh can be narrowed down by using other things (like eyes for eg)

Enough now - just buy a diamond any diamond and enjoy it please
in other words hehehe - the size precludes enough variance to notice :D
 

CinnamonTea

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
84
Date: 1/16/2007 9:48:54 PM
Author: Cehrabehra


Date: 1/16/2007 8:50:28 PM
Author: strmrdr
Both will give you the fire you want just in different ways.

A fic will be like a disco ball with small flashes of fire all over the place.
It should have long lgf% to avoid being too dark in some lighting conditions.

A tic with shorter lgf% will have larger flashes of fire than the fic but fewer of them.

In your size range and for a pendant where with a fic a lot of the small flashes are going to blend together the short lgf% tic with a slightly shallow pavilion sounds to me like a better pick.

In a larger size Id pick the fic.

Something like a new line ACA or the ES version of the same with a 40.6-40.7 pavilion is a reasonable option also.
They aren''t my favorite diamonds but for something like this are a good choice.

As you see there isn''t any one right answer but several good options.
I know my stone isn''t a round, but it has very short lgf, very high crown and it has fire all over the place - tons of pinfire and a round brilliant average amount of moderate sized fire.... but it isn''t dark... what light are you talking about storm that makes a diamond appear dark if it has FIC and short LGF?

Honestly if this is for a pendant i wouldn''t do FIC - I would get a shallower TIC/BIC borderline with very short LGF I''d do the opposite for a ring lol (but take this with salt because others would do *exactly* the opposite lol)
I want a stone just like yours, like this:

"but it has very short lgf, very high crown and it has fire all over the place -
tons of pinfire and a round brilliant average amount of moderate sized fire.... but it isn''t dark... "

And I think I can find one.
 

CinnamonTea

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
84

Some of my nit-picking might not be noticeable in this small of a stone. - correct.


But you can tell the difference between a BIC and a FIC in this size of stone.


I looked at a BIC almost this size and it was so flooded with white light it looked like a fire dud.


Almost that look you get with stud earrings.


I want to stay away from that. far away.


Nor do I see what''s so wrong about trying to protect myself from buying the *wrong* stone.


I know I am picky and it bothers some of you but;


I feel like I am constantly being attacked on this site.

Should I leave?
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,272
Too funny Garry.


Hi CT. I''d basically ditto the above via strm and Garry plus the consideration of Cehra''s comments. Cehra is correct. Short lgf''s will contribute to chunkier flashes while long lgf''s will contribute to more pin type flashes. The 2 extremes would be found via 72-75% on the short side vs 82-87% on the long side. 76-80 will provide a good balance IMO if you''re not looking for either extreme. Both are beautiful, just slightly different personalities. Are you more after fewer broader chunky flashes or more smaller flashes or what some may consider a balanced mix of the 2?

Kind regards,
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 1/16/2007 10:01:29 PM
Author: CinnamonTea

Date: 1/16/2007 9:48:54 PM
Author: Cehrabehra



Date: 1/16/2007 8:50:28 PM
Author: strmrdr
Both will give you the fire you want just in different ways.

A fic will be like a disco ball with small flashes of fire all over the place.
It should have long lgf% to avoid being too dark in some lighting conditions.

A tic with shorter lgf% will have larger flashes of fire than the fic but fewer of them.

In your size range and for a pendant where with a fic a lot of the small flashes are going to blend together the short lgf% tic with a slightly shallow pavilion sounds to me like a better pick.

In a larger size Id pick the fic.

Something like a new line ACA or the ES version of the same with a 40.6-40.7 pavilion is a reasonable option also.
They aren''t my favorite diamonds but for something like this are a good choice.

As you see there isn''t any one right answer but several good options.
I know my stone isn''t a round, but it has very short lgf, very high crown and it has fire all over the place - tons of pinfire and a round brilliant average amount of moderate sized fire.... but it isn''t dark... what light are you talking about storm that makes a diamond appear dark if it has FIC and short LGF?

Honestly if this is for a pendant i wouldn''t do FIC - I would get a shallower TIC/BIC borderline with very short LGF I''d do the opposite for a ring lol (but take this with salt because others would do *exactly* the opposite lol)
I want a stone just like yours, like this:

''but it has very short lgf, very high crown and it has fire all over the place -
tons of pinfire and a round brilliant average amount of moderate sized fire.... but it isn''t dark... ''

And I think I can find one.
CT but my stone is a 2.71 ct old mine cut LOL it''s not even on the same planet as what you''re looking at! My stone would make a HORRIBLE pendant LOL the only reason I brought mine up is because I was asking storm a specific question about lighting...

with a stone of 1/3 carat I would look for something like this:
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-116828.htm
. Report: AGS
. Shape: A Cut Above H&A
. Carat: 0.325
. Depth %: 61.4
. Table %: 57.2
. Crown Angle: 34.8
. Crown %: 14.8
. Star : 57.4
. Pavilion Angle: 40.7
. Pavilion %: 42.8
. Lower Girdle %: 75.9
. Girdle: Thin to Slightly Thick Faceted
. Measurements: 4.39-4.42X2.71
. Light Performance: 0
. Polish: Ideal
. Symmetry: Ideal
. Culet: Pointed
. Fluorescence: Negligible

or this:
http://www.whiteflash.com/hearts_arrows/A-Cut-Above-H-A-cut-diamond-116821.htm
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 1/16/2007 10:13:49 PM
Author: CinnamonTea

Some of my nit-picking might not be noticeable in this small of a stone. - correct.



But you can tell the difference between a BIC and a FIC in this size of stone.



I looked at a BIC almost this size and it was so flooded with white light it looked like a fire dud.



Almost that look you get with stud earrings.



I want to stay away from that. far away.



Nor do I see what''s so wrong about trying to protect myself from buying the *wrong* stone.



I know I am picky and it bothers some of you but;



I feel like I am constantly being attacked on this site.

Should I leave?
you shouldn''t leave - you''re not being attacked.... it''s just.... not everyone has the patience to decide minutia.... if you have a 3 carat stone the difference between 75 and 85 lgf is going to be highly evident..... on a 1/3 carat stone it''s going to be slightly evident. Kinda like debating between a 4oz and 8 oz steak vs a 46 and 50 oz steak. One you''re doubling and one you might not even notice. That''s not to say you shouldn''t go for what you want - but just do a search - there''s plenty of good stones to be had. As for worrying about the FIC same thing.... just look for a stone that has close to a 35* crown angle that is an ACA with as close to 75 lgf and you''ll be totally made in the shade.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 1/16/2007 10:25:36 PM
Author: Rhino
Too funny Garry.


Hi CT. I''d basically ditto the above via strm and Garry plus the consideration of Cehra''s comments. Cehra is correct. Short lgf''s will contribute to chunkier flashes while long lgf''s will contribute to more pin type flashes. The 2 extremes would be found via 72-75% on the short side vs 82-87% on the long side. 76-80 will provide a good balance IMO if you''re not looking for either extreme. Both are beautiful, just slightly different personalities. Are you more after fewer broader chunky flashes or more smaller flashes or what some may consider a balanced mix of the 2?

Kind regards,
yeah what he says plus are you looking for something that catches the eye of passerby? go for the short lgf. Pinfire is great up close but it isn''t gonna impress someone several feet away very much.... the "chunky" facets on a small stone will correclate with average facets on larger stone in size so if you want it to reach out and lick people with color, go for the shortest lgf you can find and skip the fic issue.
 

CinnamonTea

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 28, 2006
Messages
84
Date: 1/16/2007 10:25:36 PM
Author: Rhino
Too funny Garry.


Hi CT. I''d basically ditto the above via strm and Garry plus the consideration of Cehra''s comments. Cehra is correct. Short lgf''s will contribute to chunkier flashes while long lgf''s will contribute to more pin type flashes. The 2 extremes would be found via 72-75% on the short side vs 82-87% on the long side. 76-80 will provide a good balance IMO if you''re not looking for either extreme. Both are beautiful, just slightly different personalities. Are you more after fewer broader chunky flashes or more smaller flashes or what some may consider a balanced mix of the 2?

Kind regards,

Thanks Rhino!



Well now that I put more thought into it I enjoy the pinfire more then the broad fire.



So this means I should opt for longer LGF% right?



I would enjoy a nice mix of the 2



but if I had to say what I like more i''d say more frequent pin-fire.



This just makes me even more confused because I''ve been told in the small of a stone none of this matters.



Like I won''t see the pin-fire anyway so don''t worry about it?`

 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Date: 1/16/2007 10:13:49 PM
Author: CinnamonTea

Some of my nit-picking might not be noticeable in this small of a stone. - correct.

But you can tell the difference between a BIC and a FIC in this size of stone.

I looked at a BIC almost this size and it was so flooded with white light it looked like a fire dud.

Almost that look you get with stud earrings.



I want to stay away from that. far away.



Nor do I see what''s so wrong about trying to protect myself from buying the *wrong* stone.



I know I am picky and it bothers some of you but;



I feel like I am constantly being attacked on this site.

Should I leave?
You should not demand answers from experts only on consumers forum CinnamonTea, and nobody has attacked you.
If you feel this way about answers you don''t like it''s not a community''s problem.
 
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