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Flight of Ideas

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Surg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
35
Before I start, I have to submit to any and all involved with this site and its forum my sincerest gratitude for your expertly written articles and opinions. Risking a reputation as a bad punster, this is a gem of a resource you all have put together here.

I had been to several B&M's in search of an e-ring before traipsing across your site this past weekend, at which point I devoured your diamond tutorial. While I can't admit to retaining or even comprehending 100% of the information, I am close to being fully-persuaded that I can find a high quality diamond at a better value (and on my terms) online. I just have a few (perhaps, more than a few) questions, mostly of a basic variety, regarding the process of finding a diamond online.

1.) First off, I understand the importance of cut, and I kind of understand the complexities in assessing it. However, one of the roadblocks in using the HCA is that the crown and pavilion angles or %'s aren't always readily available. For example, it seemes like I would have to request a cert everytime one is not available in order to use the HCA. This would slow down the process of weeding through the database. Am I missing something obvious here? Is there an easier way to get the necessary data?

2.) If the HCA does not disapprove of my selection, I understand that many members here still like to see ASET or Idealscope images, especially for certain angles, etc. Is this information that is always or usually available, and, is it something that I have to specifically call to request? How do I get this information and is it necessary in 100% of cases, in your opinions?

I have other questions, but it's probably best to start out with this for now.

Finally, and again, the contributions you all make here are invaluable, and I'm sure there are many unregistered folks who are as thankful for your help as I am. So, on behalf of all similarly lost souls out there, thank you for your work... many times over. Looking forward to hearing from you all...

Surg
 

Stone-cold11

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
14,069
1) If you can get the report number and stone size, for GIA and AGS reports, the information can easily be found on their respective website.

2) ASET/IS images are only readily available at some of the vendors such as GOG, WF, HPD, JA. Drop-shippers will not be able to give them.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 25, 2005
Messages
13,329
My way of going through the database is to either go with in-house stones, OR James Allen stones when searching the full db.

You can also do a "Search by Cut"
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 3/30/2009 3:53:41 PM
Author:Surg
Before I start, I have to submit to any and all involved with this site and its forum my sincerest gratitude for your expertly written articles and opinions. Risking a reputation as a bad punster, this is a gem of a resource you all have put together here.

I had been to several B&M's in search of an e-ring before traipsing across your site this past weekend, at which point I devoured your diamond tutorial. While I can't admit to retaining or even comprehending 100% of the information, I am close to being fully-persuaded that I can find a high quality diamond at a better value (and on my terms) online. I just have a few (perhaps, more than a few) questions, mostly of a basic variety, regarding the process of finding a diamond online.

1.) First off, I understand the importance of cut, and I kind of understand the complexities in assessing it. However, one of the roadblocks in using the HCA is that the crown and pavilion angles or %'s aren't always readily available. For example, it seemes like I would have to request a cert everytime one is not available in order to use the HCA. This would slow down the process of weeding through the database. Am I missing something obvious here? Is there an easier way to get the necessary data? Julie offers good advice, if you search by cut or use the search in house diamonds feature that will bring up diamonds with more info. You can also obtain this info if you have the report numbers and carat weights from GIA or AGS websites below.

http://www2.gia.edu/reportcheck/index.cfm

http://www.agslab.com/verify_diamond_grading_report.php

2.) If the HCA does not disapprove of my selection, I understand that many members here still like to see ASET or Idealscope images, especially for certain angles, etc. Is this information that is always or usually available, and, is it something that I have to specifically call to request? How do I get this information and is it necessary in 100% of cases, in your opinions? Vendors who have in house diamonds as above will often have this info available, if you arrange to have a diamond called in to one of them from the virtual listing, then they can often get images done for you if needed.

I have other questions, but it's probably best to start out with this for now.

Finally, and again, the contributions you all make here are invaluable, and I'm sure there are many unregistered folks who are as thankful for your help as I am. So, on behalf of all similarly lost souls out there, thank you for your work... many times over. Looking forward to hearing from you all...Very good of you to say so, many of us have spent years trying to be of assistance here, so your kind words are appreciated!

Surg
 

Surg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
35
I see. There''s an obvious advantage to seeking GIA or AGS certs or sticking to the in-house database, and I know these are all recommended by many users here.

However, it''s still very appealing to have the entire database at my disposal. How can I assess cut reliably with, say, EGL certs or those diamonds in the full listings? I can still uncover well-cut diamonds amongst these options somehow, can''t I? (Or can''t I?)

Surg
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,807
Date: 3/30/2009 4:57:33 PM
Author: Surg
I see. There''s an obvious advantage to seeking GIA or AGS certs or sticking to the in-house database, and I know these are all recommended by many users here.


However, it''s still very appealing to have the entire database at my disposal. How can I assess cut reliably with, say, EGL certs or those diamonds in the full listings? I can still uncover well-cut diamonds amongst these options somehow, can''t I? (Or can''t I?)


Surg
Sure. Order in the stone and have it evaluated by your own chosen expert.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

Surg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
35
More flight of ideas...

1.) What is a drop-shipper?

2.) I''m a little suspicious of vendor-appraiser alliances. For example, an online vendor suggested eventually sending the diamond into an appraiser in my area with whom she is familiar. Now, this appraiser happens to be listed on PS''s own list, but are there any tips you all have regarding independent appraisal? Are my conspiracy theories unfounded?

3.) My gal really likes this style of mounting. Buying a "brand" name, however, would really eat into my budget (vendors quote this setting between $2000-4000+). Can I expect someone to approximate this pave setting pretty closely, and do you all think I could expect a reasonable savings?

Surg
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
22,361
Here is a pave knife edge setting that is somewhat similiar to what your girlfriend likes...price $1295.
The head is different and I think the wedding band is just like the ering minus the head for the
diamond (its not a wrap like your girlfriend likes).

I''m afraid from what we have been seeing about having custom sets made the price will be just as high
(if not higher) than the $2-$4K. The only way to really know is to ask some sites for a quote
.


Here is another one priced about $1900
http://www.knoxjewelers.biz/index.htm?crn=203&rn=1361&action=show_detail
 

Lorelei

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
42,064
Date: 4/5/2009 3:09:59 PM
Author: Surg
More flight of ideas...

1.) What is a drop-shipper? This is a seller who often doesn''t even see the diamond, unlike vendors who have in house diamonds or call some in for evaluation, the drop shipper arranges sale and setting and thats pretty much the extent of their involvement.

2.) I''m a little suspicious of vendor-appraiser alliances. For example, an online vendor suggested eventually sending the diamond into an appraiser in my area with whom she is familiar. Now, this appraiser happens to be listed on PS''s own list, but are there any tips you all have regarding independent appraisal? Are my conspiracy theories unfounded? Yes! The independant appraiser will be working for you, naturally some vendors will be familiar with certain appraisers in their area and may have worked or been involved with them at various times in a business capacity. But if you would prefer to pick out your own appraiser you can certainly do so, whatever you are the most comfortable with.

3.) My gal really likes this style of mounting. Buying a ''brand'' name, however, would really eat into my budget (vendors quote this setting between $2000-4000+). Can I expect someone to approximate this pave setting pretty closely, and do you all think I could expect a reasonable savings? This depends, you can get some quotes and ask around to see what can be done and how much it will cost.

Surg
 

Diamond Explorer

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 7, 2008
Messages
294
Date: 4/5/2009 3:09:59 PM
Author: Surg
More flight of ideas...

...3.) My gal really likes this style of mounting. Buying a ''brand'' name, however, would really eat into my budget (vendors quote this setting between $2000-4000+). Can I expect someone to approximate this pave setting pretty closely, and do you all think I could expect a reasonable savings?


Surg
You should talk to your gal, and make sure a setting like that is really important to her. A gold or platinum and diamond setting like you showed really cannot be had too cheaply. If she really wants the ring, and is not so into the diamond, than its definitely worth it for an elaborate setting. But if she is really into the diamond than a simple setting may be the way to go, to allow you to maximize your diamond budget.
 

Surg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
35
Incredible. Thanks for the leads and the clarifications, tyty, lorelei, and Jonathan. I'm bookmarking these settings right now.

One related question: if I were to just go with the style I know she likes, I have been told it comes made for either a one or two carat center. Knowing I am looking for something right in the middle of that (i.e. 1.4-1.6), one jeweler advised me not to worry... that they could most likely accomodate a differently sized diamond. A lot of times (e.g. the Whiteflash ring just linked to), a ring is said to accomodate a defined yet continuous range of carat sizes. When a ring like this is said to be made for one or two carats, I don't know what to think. Am I overthinking this? Should I worry about compatability between this specific paved setting and a stone within my search parameters?

Surg

P.S. Perhaps I should just put "thank you" as my permanent signature, but thank you all again and again for your help.
 

Regular Guy

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 6, 2004
Messages
5,954
Date: 4/5/2009 3:09:59 PM
Author: Surg

2.) I''m a little suspicious of vendor-appraiser alliances. For example, an online vendor suggested eventually sending the diamond into an appraiser in my area with whom she is familiar. Now, this appraiser happens to be listed on PS''s own list, but are there any tips you all have regarding independent appraisal? Are my conspiracy theories unfounded?
Although the advantages of having the diamond send directly to the appraiser often include the option of not paying a dime until the appraiser give a thumbs up, Denver Appraiser aka Neil Beatty himself has previously discussed the somewhat dubious inherent lack of a blind relationship there. As Lorelei states, although it is likely, for both to stay in business, the appraiser knows still to call a dog a dog, you remain safest by buying with cold cash, and bringing the diamond without vendor identification to the appraiser yourself. Doing this, no tint of knowledge of the source pertains, and this then leaves clean the appraiser to work on your behalf without any apparent question from anybody. You just have to trust the vendor (usually reasonable to do so) will refund your money when you wish to return it, and certainly we read that most listed here will do so...
 

Surg

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 30, 2009
Messages
35
There''s a setting on BN I like, but, if I purchase without a center stone, they have two caveats... (1) the ring will come without prongs and (2) it will come in a stock size 4 or 6 when I need a size 5. I''m not sure I understand the consequences of these stipulations. Presumably, whoever sets my stone will have to resize it and add his or her own prongs. Is that right and is that an involved process? What kind of added cost is that?

Surg
 
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