First Time Posting - Is It Art Deco?

[snaphappy]

Looking closely at this metal work I think it’s die struck, yes. If it’s die struck, it’s valuable for collectors because it’s a rare technology now. And die struck presumably dates the piece to early 20th Century. And we love that ornate detail/filigree. I don’t think the price difference would show up in a vintage piece because no one seems to price according to the immense amount of labor and craftsmanship that went into antique settings. Just think, they had to hand select melee. They engraved They hand bruted the girdle, even if it is a more modern stone, the bruted girdle is done by hand, etc.

Pre-owned seem to cost roughly the same no matter the technology usually priced by metal weight, and if you had a setting like this made today it would cost much more than a pre-owned piece.

Regarding the “clean-ness” of your stone, have you tried gently soaking it with warm water and Dawn dish soap and gently using a baby toothbrush carefully to get it clean? Your stone looks lively and the color is gorgeous. I wonder if you could start by home cleaning, always in a bowl never near a drain. Be careful about prongs, check every prong to make sure you don’t lose stones.

I just rewatched your video and the rainbow flashes (Fire) coming off your diamond are awesome. Setting is intricate and perfect for this diamond. Fantastic.

Let us see more photos! Hand shots! Beautiful ring!

Thank you for the info!

I didn't know what fire was two weeks ago. Now I'm addicted it to it. I had to hide this ring from my wife for a week. I went full Golum. I'd stop what I was doing, get the ring out of the safe, and just stare at it.

Unfortunately for my wallet, I'm now ring shopping for myself! That will probably be the subject of my next post!

 

[Dreamer_D]

Yea please soak it in a dish of warm water and some drops of ish soap and even a little Mr Clean or a drop of household ammonia. Gently brush with a baby toothbrush. Then take lots pictures for us and share them as payment…. Errrr… I mean, as thanks for our help!

 

[snaphappy]

Edit: It's very odd, but the videos on youtube just aren't bright for some reason. They look so much better on my phone! I tried though!!

Dish soap just changed my life!! I’m going to seek out the diamond section of this forum and make them tell me if RBC have fire like this, or if this fire is intensified by the transitional cut.

I find it very hard to photograph with an iphone:

 

[Dreamer_D]

We are the same “them” who will answer your questions in other sub forums lol

Transitional cuts can have more fire than modern rounds because the larger pavilion mains create chunkier and more noticeable flashes of fire and because the proportions err towards favouring fire over while light return (eg taller steeper crown and pavilion).

 

[snaphappy]

We are the same “them” who will answer your questions in other sub forums lol

Transitional cuts can have more fire than modern rounds because the larger pavilion mains create chunkier and more noticeable flashes of fire and because the proportions err towards favouring fire over while light return (eg taller steeper crown and pavilion).

Is there a cut that's known for the most fire? Transitional, OEC, OMC?

 

[JPie]

I base this opinion on looking at a lot of OMCs and OECs on Jewels by Grace’s IG: it comes down to the cut. There are so many different flavors of OMCs and OECs that I wouldn’t make a blanket statement about which has more fire. Gotta shop with your eyes for what’s the most pleasing to you.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I base this opinion on looking at a lot of OMCs and OECs on Jewels by Grace’s IG: it comes down to the cut. There are so many different flavors of OMCs and OECs that I wouldn’t make a blanket statement about which has more fire. Gotta shop with your eyes for what’s the most pleasing to you.

Agreed, though all else equal higher crowns tend to err that way. But since you can have higher or flatter crowns on all the cuts there isn’t a recipe!

 

[twosanguinehearts]

Just here to say that this ring is very cool!! There’s truly nothing like an antique piece, and I agree that it’s so much fun to imagine the life it led before finding you. I swear you can just FEEL the depth and vibes emanating from its rich history. Congrats!

 

[LightBright]

That diamond is insane. So rare to see irrepressible fire like that in anything but a superideal modern cut. Sometimes Transitionals have great fire, but your diamond can’t be stopped.

 

[junebug17]

Gorgeous ring and diamond! So lively and sparkly. Diamonds are oil and dust magnets, amazing what a cleaning will do!

 

[snaphappy]

That diamond is insane. So rare to see irrepressible fire like that in anything but a superideal modern cut. Sometimes Transitionals have great fire, but your diamond can’t be stopped.

I just told my wife when I get my diamond I'll probably be disappointed because nothing can compete her fire!! I had to hide that ring from her for a week and during that time I went full gollum. Which is why I'm shopping for myself now lol

 

[snaphappy]

This video is really low quality. But we were at a wedding tonight and we really enjoyed the dazzling rainbow sparkles in the candlelight. I read about how much the victorians enjoyed european and mine cuts, combined with yellow gold, to make their cape diamonds sparkle in the candlelight. From what I read, the victorians preferred cape to river colored diamonds and employed yellow gold to make their diamonds look even more yellow. I really want to see a big brilliant flawless colorless diamond next to ours in the candlelight! Just to see if the new way of doing things is just as magical as the old ways.

 

[snaphappy]

Figured out the magnifier app! Now I can finally share this!! What the heck is this? COD? JUJ? Iridium somehow? A maker’s mark?

 

[snaphappy]

Looking closely at this metal work I think it’s die struck, yes. If it’s die struck, it’s valuable for collectors because it’s a rare technology now. And die struck presumably dates the piece to early 20th Century. And we love that ornate detail/filigree. I don’t think the price difference would show up in a vintage piece because no one seems to price according to the immense amount of labor and craftsmanship that went into antique settings. Just think, they had to hand select melee. They engraved They hand bruted the girdle, even if it is a more modern stone, the bruted girdle is done by hand, etc.

Pre-owned seem to cost roughly the same no matter the technology usually priced by metal weight, and if you had a setting like this made today it would cost much more than a pre-owned piece.

Regarding the “clean-ness” of your stone, have you tried gently soaking it with warm water and Dawn dish soap and gently using a baby toothbrush carefully to get it clean? Your stone looks lively and the color is gorgeous. I wonder if you could start by home cleaning, always in a bowl never near a drain. Be careful about prongs, check every prong to make sure you don’t lose stones.

I just rewatched your video and the rainbow flashes (Fire) coming off your diamond are awesome. Setting is intricate and perfect for this diamond. Fantastic.

Let us see more photos! Hand shots! Beautiful ring!

I bought the ring in this thread from the same seller that you said is not antique filigree... wonder if the ring is this thread is "not antique" as you claimed about the ring below. Like I said, same seller

14k White Gold Vintage Filigree Engagement Ring 5.33ct. Natural Round Diamond | eBay

The ring features a beautiful round, natural white diamond with a weight of 5.33 carats. The diamond is clarity-enhanced and has a very good cut grade. The ring is a solitaire style with a prong setting and is available in size 8.

www.ebay.com

 

[LightBright]

I bought the ring in this thread from the same seller that you said is not antique filigree... wonder if the ring is this thread is "not antique" as you claimed about the ring below. Like I said, same seller

14k White Gold Vintage Filigree Engagement Ring 5.33ct. Natural Round Diamond | eBay

The ring features a beautiful round, natural white diamond with a weight of 5.33 carats. The diamond is clarity-enhanced and has a very good cut grade. The ring is a solitaire style with a prong setting and is available in size 8.

www.ebay.com

This ring from the prior post is not giving antique vibes to me. They did not treat diamonds back then. Very large white stones did not exist unless it was in Mughal or Royalty jewelry. The large stones that industrialists bought were more tinted. Large stones in filigree didn’t really exist either, the large stones were in hand forged jewelry. The shank on this is squared and plain, whereas Edwardian filigree would engrave or have a patterned or decorative detail. Also such a large stone would have a more ornate setting. This stone is cut like a Modern Brilliant, not of the period. Last, the report is not GIA so I question the specs anyway. Gia could also tell you what type of cut it is for example. These are just my opinions.

 

[snaphappy]

I continue to study this filigree. I can’t find anything else like it. After a few users here suggested it was die struck I made some more inquiries elsewhere. I was told die struck filigree looks smooth on the backside. I was told my filigree was obviously pulled from a cast. But to my eye, die cast seems so much finer and symmetrical than this platinum. And is this platinum smooth on the back? but tbh… this basically looks handmade and almost tortured and not symmetrical to me. I just don’t know what to think.

 

[LightBright]

Maybe they mean it’s wax cast? Which is where you create a wax version of the setting by carving it, or using 3D printing, then you coat the wax with plaster or other material to create a mold.then you put the mold into a centrifuge and push molten metal into the mold which evaporates the wax, to create an intricate setting.

Die struck is something different. That’s where you strike metal with an existing stamp, that you can use over and over. I think that’s why the die struck result looks crisper and perfectly symmetrical, and the back is smooth (because the die is struck onto a smooth polished piece of metal.

 

[snaphappy]

Maybe they mean it’s wax cast? Which is where you create a wax version of the setting by carving it, or using 3D printing, then you coat the wax with plaster or other material to create a mold.then you put the mold into a centrifuge and push molten metal into the mold which evaporates the wax, to create an intricate setting.

Die struck is something different. That’s where you strike metal with an existing stamp, that you can use over and over. I think that’s why the die struck result looks crisper and perfectly symmetrical, and the back is smooth (because the die is struck onto a smooth polished piece of metal.

Yes that's another possibility. And I think wax cast is the lowest quality of all? Die cast and die struck are both better? The authenticity of my wife's platinum setting was called into question. And I'm just nerdy and I like to research things.

I've found one other ring with similar filigree and it's up for sale from the same seller that we bought our ring from.

Then tonight I found these yellow gold filigree rings on 1stdibs. They claim to be authentic, but they are all suspiciously similar.

Ring from our seller, except it's white gold, not platinum:

14k White Gold Vintage Filigree Engagement Ring 5.33ct. Natural Round Diamond | eBay

The ring features a beautiful round, natural white diamond with a weight of 5.33 carats. The diamond is clarity-enhanced and has a very good cut grade. The ring is a solitaire style with a prong setting and is available in size 8.

www.ebay.com

Similar style filigree I found tonight. I have no idea if these yellow gold rings are authentic or not. It's possible old diamonds are set in reproduction settings. But if these yellow gold rings are authentic, then perhaps my wife's ring was constructed in a similar way, making it early edwardian platinum? But I just don't know what to believe!

Victorian Rose Cut Diamond Engagement Ring ~2ct in 14 Karat Yellow Gold RARE For Sale at 1stDibs

For Sale on 1stDibs - Victorian Rose Cut Diamond Engagement Ring ~2ct in 14 Karat Yellow Gold RARE This exquisite and rare Victorian ~2ct Rose Cut Diamond Engagement Ring is

www.1stdibs.com

Antique Victorian 3.20 Carat Old Mine Cut Diamond Engagement Ring For Sale at 1stDibs

For Sale on 1stDibs - Finely crafted in 18k yellow gold with a GIA certified Old Mine cut Diamond weighing 3.20 carats, H color, VS2 clarity, GIA #11877075. The ring features

www.1stdibs.com

French Victorian 2.7 Carat Rose Cut Diamond Ring in 18 Karat Yellow Gold For Sale at 1stDibs | 2.7 carat oval diamond ring, what holds a diamond in place, 2.7 carat radiant cut

For Sale on 1stDibs - It has delicately floral carvings that hold this stunning diamond in place sprinkled with a multitude of accent diamonds. The center diamond is approximately

www.1stdibs.com

Victorian Sapphire Diamond 10k Rose Gold Ring For Sale at 1stDibs

For Sale on 1stDibs - One Victorian Sapphire Diamond 10k Rose Gold Ring. Featuring one oval mixed cut sapphire weighing 1.72 carats. Accented by six senaille cut diamonds with

www.1stdibs.com

Antique Rose-cut Diamond Engagement Ring For Sale at 1stDibs | dutch rose cut diamond, antique rose cut diamond ring, rose cut diamond ring antique

For Sale on 1stDibs - The pierced 18kt yellow gold mounting set to the center with a large antique rose-cut diamond, a 'full Holland rose cut' diamond weighing app. 5.50 carats

www.1stdibs.com

 

[LightBright]

I’m stumped by the ones you posted. They all have rose cut diamonds some very rough table cut (which is easily modern) as decoration, that wasn’t done in Victorian times it’s more Georgian. One listing dates this “1880”. I don’t see that fitting. Those side rose cuts are terrible quality rough; they are opaque and gray.

The last one looks suspiciously like a style I see made in Turkey, usually with a cabochon ruby.

One of these has a very good quality old mine cushion, which doesn’t fit the style of the setting.

French Victorian should have a metal stamp or poincon. I don’t see it.

I try to find examples of these styles in historical literature or on Instagram as real antiques, but keep coming back to potentially Turkish or less likely Indian modern craftsmanship and components, except for that very well cut old mine cut diamond. All other components are easily and commonly found in modern day jewelry shops in those two countries.

Someone else might think differently. I’m very interested to hear other observations.

 

[LightBright]

Here’s what was told to be a real antique setting. Note high quality rose cuts, with high quality graduated stones, high quality cuts, clear diamond material. High quality design and miligrain (though I thought miligrain was Edwardian!) It’s sterling silver. But I’m pretty sure this one is true antique, I think later than Victorian. It’s possible the style is being reproduced en masse.

Thread 'Antique 8ct. Ceylon blue sapphire ring. Meet Elena, aka my mini “Blue Blob”'

May 28, 2020

Hi Fellow PriceScoper’s!

I have been a long time lurker and admirer of the many beautiful pieces on this forum.
I have quietly appreciated being part of this community and enjoyed every bit of knowledge and passion you all so generously share.

I figured I should share too.


Forgive the long backstory.
Feel free to move straight to photos and specs

I’ve had a love affair with antique jewelry since my early 20’s. My engagement ring back in the 80’s was an old mine cut stone that we found in our city’s jewelry district. I came to appreciate antique stones and beautiful craftsmanship...

• Bluemuse
• Replies: 144
• Forum: Colored Gemstones

• 
• 

 

[maryjane04]

I did a reverse image search on some of the rings you posted and there were some Turkish made rings almost like it.

I really don't get a sense that they're antique. Large diamonds were very expensive back then and the style and execution just doesn't seem fitting. Also it's common to have silver over gold in Victorian jewellery and it's known for its intricate details and exceptional craftsmanship.

Although I did look at that style ring and it reminds me of the Andria Barbone Malvet ring. Please note this is a reproduction but the quality of the metalwork is so much better than the ones you posted.

https://andriabarbone.com/collectio...amond-engagement-ring-with-intricate-filigree

 

[snaphappy]

I need to reach out to someone with expertise.

First, no one would cut diamonds like this to make money on reproductions… because cutting these large diamonds properly, would be more profitable. Correct? If I’m correct these diamonds are actually old.

So old diamonds place in reproduction settings? I could see that….

But again, would it be more profitable to simply recut the diamond, forget the reproduction setting, and sell the diamond as a lovely recut RBC? After all, there’s a very limited audience for these antiques, real or fake. And you’re exposing yourself to risk by creating a forgery. Why not just recut the diamond? Zero risk that way.

However, if it is more profitable, to snatch up old big diamonds, slam em in reproduction settings, then it all makes sense!

There is another possibility. Everything is authentic and we don’t know what we’re looking at. No maker’s mark? What if these genuine antiques were made elsewhere? Not all jewelry had makers marks. Sometimes we have an idea of what’s edwardian or victorian. But it was so long ago. Maybe rings like this are authentic and we just don’t see a lot of them.

So I need an expert to reach out to. Finding one will be my next step.

 

[snaphappy]

I did a reverse image search on some of the rings you posted and there were some Turkish made rings almost like it.

I really don't get a sense that they're antique. Large diamonds were very expensive back then and the style and execution just doesn't seem fitting. Also it's common to have silver over gold in Victorian jewellery and it's known for its intricate details and exceptional craftsmanship.

Although I did look at that style ring and it reminds me of the Andria Barbone Malvet ring. Please note this is a reproduction but the quality of the metalwork is so much better than the ones you posted.

https://andriabarbone.com/collectio...amond-engagement-ring-with-intricate-filigree

Yeah the ring you linked may be the answer to the mystery. Whethet good or bad quality filigree, there’s a market for taking authentic old diamonds and setting then in an “old style.”

The odd thing about my wife’s ring is the platinum. I’ve yet to see a fakey that’s platinum. Platinum is supposedly much harder to work with. But platinum does not prove anything. Just a theory.

Edit: also her milgrain is worn. Could be faked I suppose. But that might help her cause too

 

[LightBright]

Yes, talk to a jeweler in person with your wife’s ring. The local one you found who loved your old diamond and sounded knowledgeable might be able to tell you what he’s seeing. He sounds like he’s seen many old stones and settings.

Yes, old cut stones are sold at a higher price point in larger carat sizes with their original cuts, than cutting them into a smaller stone with a new modern cut. Even light polishing diminishes value.

We rarely see large antique diamonds sold in their original settings. Most are in newly made settings or settings made at a much later date from their cutting.

Most Antique Forum PSers have looked at antique diamonds and settings on-line regularly for five to ten years or more. I can remember when PS people started to get interested in old cuts (more than a decade ago) and we were looking for and at 2 carat old cuts, usually Turn of Century OECs or American Cuts in Edwardian settings. After the Obama years, housing bubble bursting, and salaries started skyrocketing for the top 10%, we started seeing larger antique stones marketed by the very few antique stone vendors we followed. Even then large stones were in darker colors, wide ranging antique cut quality and were fairly rare.

Now, in the last five-six years, we regularly see 5 carat very well cut antique cuts. Again they are usually in new settings. We see 3 plus carat antique cuts everywhere.

I’ve always been skeptical about where all the very large stones are coming from. Diamond cutting is an art but the antique cut can be perfected. You can scan, and map out the exact angle recipe of an antique stone using a computer and a 3D cutting software and plan cutting precisely. Modern cutters are true artists but they don’t sell to individuals. Most artist level cutters recut diamonds for vendor clients who regularly sell items for over $20k. The small antique diamond vendors we used to follow now sell to celebrities among other people, with celebrity pricing. Some more expert than me PSers think all these large stones ARE antique and were just hiding out in a Boomer jewelry box which is possibly true.

Regarding fraud, there’s almost zero chance a normal customer would have any way to detect that the stone isn’t an antique or the setting isn’t. Or would care. These “antique stones and settings” are sold at the prices people are willing to pay. Saying it’s antique when it isn’t, doesn’t have the same punishment as saying it’s a designer trademarked item. It’s really, is the item pretty? Do you want to pay that much? Ok, sold. Now re-selling an antique ring, as an individual, for the same price, is almost impossible.

Eleven years ago, I went into an antique store in a wealthy beach vacation town on the East Coast. The cases were full of gorgeous Authentic looking Edwardian settings, I was totally fooled. The owner told me the settings were made in Argentina, and she would not sell me an empty setting (eg it was more profitable to sell to customers after they plopped a diamond into it). In a sense the Reproduction setting added exponential value to the diamond, by suggesting rarity and antique cache.

I’m at the point where I only want to consider and look at antiques because they are made so much better than modern jewelry, with really interesting setting craftsmanship and really interesting stones, too. They are being sold at prices far less than what making them modern would cost. Etc.

 

[snaphappy]

Yes, talk to a jeweler in person with your wife’s ring. The local one you found who loved your old diamond and sounded knowledgeable might be able to tell you what he’s seeing. He sounds like he’s seen many old stones and settings.

Yes, old cut stones are sold at a higher price point in larger carat sizes with their original cuts, than cutting them into a smaller stone with a new modern cut. Even light polishing diminishes value.

We rarely see large antique diamonds sold in their original settings. Most are in newly made settings or settings made at a much later date from their cutting.

Most Antique Forum PSers have looked at antique diamonds and settings on-line regularly for five to ten years or more. I can remember when PS people started to get interested in old cuts (more than a decade ago) and we were looking for and at 2 carat old cuts, usually Turn of Century OECs or American Cuts in Edwardian settings. After the Obama years, housing bubble bursting, and salaries started skyrocketing for the top 10%, we started seeing larger antique stones marketed by the very few antique stone vendors we followed. Even then large stones were in darker colors, wide ranging antique cut quality and were fairly rare.

Now, in the last five-six years, we regularly see 5 carat very well cut antique cuts. Again they are usually in new settings. We see 3 plus carat antique cuts everywhere.

I’ve always been skeptical about where all the very large stones are coming from. Diamond cutting is an art but the antique cut can be perfected. You can scan, and map out the exact angle recipe of an antique stone using a computer and a 3D cutting software and plan cutting precisely. Modern cutters are true artists but they don’t sell to individuals. Most artist level cutters recut diamonds for vendor clients who regularly sell items for over $20k. The small antique diamond vendors we used to follow now sell to celebrities among other people, with celebrity pricing. Some more expert than me PSers think all these large stones ARE antique and were just hiding out in a Boomer jewelry box which is possibly true.

Regarding fraud, there’s almost zero chance a normal customer would have any way to detect that the stone isn’t an antique or the setting isn’t. Or would care. These “antique stones and settings” are sold at the prices people are willing to pay. Saying it’s antique when it isn’t, doesn’t have the same punishment as saying it’s a designer trademarked item. It’s really, is the item pretty? Do you want to pay that much? Ok, sold. Now re-selling an antique ring, as an individual, for the same price, is almost impossible.

Eleven years ago, I went into an antique store in a wealthy beach vacation town on the East Coast. The cases were full of gorgeous Authentic looking Edwardian settings, I was totally fooled. The owner told me the settings were made in Argentina, and she would not sell me an empty setting (eg it was more profitable to sell to customers after they plopped a diamond into it). In a sense the Reproduction setting added exponential value to the diamond, by suggesting rarity and antique cache.

I’m at the point where I only want to consider and look at antiques because they are made so much better than modern jewelry, with really interesting setting craftsmanship and really interesting stones, too. They are being sold at prices far less than what making them modern would cost. Etc.

Well that answers most of my questions. But do you think these are often old diamonds put in reproduction settings? Or do you think cutters somewhere have perfected the art of cutting in old ways?

 

[LightBright]

Well that answers most of my questions. But do you think these are often old diamonds put in reproduction settings? Or do you think cutters somewhere have perfected the art of cutting in old ways?

I have no idea about where all the very large antique cut diamonds are coming from. But diamond vendors likely know.

Transparent vendors are selling modern old cuts- There is one wonderful artisan cutter that several PSers have paid to recut large carat weight but modern round brilliant cut mined diamonds and lab diamonds into antique style OECs. That cutter does very good authentic cuts. GemConcepts LTD also cuts “artisan level” old cut diamonds. Parks Fine Group and Old World Diamonds also are now selling high expertise recently cut antique diamonds (mined and lab). I suspect that many antique jewelry vendors are finding and contracting with the cutters doing this work. I also suspect that some vendors (not listed here!) have been selling colored stones and antique diamonds that are recently cut in new vintage settings while being vague about origins.

There are also, still, very large diamonds all over that seem like authentic antiques. There were many different antique cut styles and the signature/recipe of the hand cutter and their cutting house is built into each stone. See book the American Cut, by Al Gilbertson. Yes there still seem to be antique diamonds being sold regularly.

Thread 'American Cut; The First 100 Years - Al Gilbertson *FREE PDF*'

Feb 9, 2017

Diamond enthusiasts will be delighted to know that this tremendous book by Al Gilbertson is now online as a free PDF, fully searchable on your computer.

Share this link with your diamond loving colleagues, clients and friends.
https://archive.org/details/AmericanCut--theFirst100YearsTheEvolutionOfTheAmericanCutDiamond

For those unfamiliar with the book here's a review composed shortly after its publication.
https://www.pricescope.com/journal/american_cut_first_100_years_al_gilbertson_gg

Sincere thanks to Al and GIA for making this valuable resource available.

• John P
• Replies: 7
• Forum: RockyTalky (Diamond Discussion)

• 

Versus modern day cutters seem to follow a perfect marketable template, leading to IMO bland vanilla same sameness. I’ve yet to see any modern cutter do an old mine cut or old mine cushion that looked good at all.

I think now that consumers are getting more educated, vendors might be transparently saying this is a newly cut diamond, if it is.

But I still want to know where all the very large antique 17th, 18th, 19th Century gems and diamonds we have seen for sale over the last eight to ten years were before they were for sale to the willing modern buyer. I know my mom’s generation and grandmother’s generation did not wear 2 plus carat diamonds. Have they all been in bank vaults for this amount of time? No idea!

 

[LightBright]

FOR EXAMPLE - There’s a recent post from Instagram of a supposed antique pear on the Somebody’s Got To Buy This Piece thread. The vendor claims it to be an antique pear, which looks sketchy as get out to me. Please note, some vendors are totally transparent.

I’m happy to have more knowledgeable people challenge my suspicions.

 

[maryjane04]

But again, would it be more profitable to simply recut the diamond, forget the reproduction setting, and sell the diamond as a lovely recut RBC? After all, there’s a very limited audience for these antiques, real or fake. And you’re exposing yourself to risk by creating a forgery. Why not just recut the diamond? Zero risk that way.

So I just looked again at the links you posted. Those are some really poor quality diamonds that are included (think salt and pepper diamonds and how they are marketed) and I don't think it would have made money as a RBC. And with rose cuts they are shallow and you wouldn't be able to cut them into RBC anyway. They could cut it like that and market it as antique to charge more for the rarity purposes.

 

[LightBright]

I’ve even recently seen a large rose cut diamond ring being marketed as antique that has double refraction, suggesting it’s moissanite. Strange antique jewelry world out there.

Large rose cuts are currently being cut in India.