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First time buyer, any advice on this stone?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by georgesmith35, Jun 27, 2011.

  1. georgesmith35
    Rough_Rock

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    by georgesmith35 » Jun 27, 2011
    HI, first time loose diamond buyer (and poster) for an engagement ring. I am considering a particular diamond presented by an independent jeweler who is trusted friend of a family member. The diamond is:
    GIA certified
    1.02 carat brilliant round 57 facet, 6.17 by 6.23 (not sure of depth)
    Si1 (one small dot inclusion, not visible with the eye)
    D
    Polish good
    Symmetry good
    Strong fluorescence
    Cut fair
    (I think table is 60%, depth 57%)
    $5075 out the door
    My concerns are about the luminescence and the cut. It seems highly debated, is it REALLY an issue having strong fluorescence in a colorless (D) diamond? I know the cut is very important and would like a higher grade, but the reality is this is the top of my budget. Does this stone seem like a good choice and a fair/good value? Am I reasonably going to do better for a $5k budget? The stone appears very clear and bright (visually and 10x under normal lighting) but of course im no expert!! Any advice is appreciated, thanks.
     
  2. Stone-cold11
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Stone-cold11 » Jun 27, 2011
    From the depth, probably too shallow, probably have obstruction issue. Other factors such as only a Good grade in symm and polish suggest bad workmanship or an old round cut.

    Not sure how reliable GIS is in terms of color and clarity grading, can be way off for all we know. So I will compare it with EGL graded stones, which is also known to be unreliable and as such discounted by the trade. Not really a deal from what I can see.

    https://www.pricescope.com/diamond-...on=&type_search=1&all=all&h_GIA=off&h_AGS=off
     
  3. georgesmith35
    Rough_Rock

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    by georgesmith35 » Jun 27, 2011
    I had a typo, it is GIA certified! Thanks
     
  4. Stone-cold11
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Stone-cold11 » Jun 27, 2011
    Post the GIA report number?

    Fair cut is almost the lowest grade GIA can give.

    For a 1.0c stone, with that low a total height and that large a table, it only has the diameter of a 0.85-0.9c stone, something is horribly wrong with the angles to get to that stage. I would drop the carat weight to a 0.9c stone. It will probably look better, appears bigger.


    .[​IMG]

    The stone on the right is a 1 carat stone, compare to a left which is a 0.84c stone, which look better, bigger? They both have the same diameter.

    From the knowledge section.
    http://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-carat-weight/
     
  5. slg47
    Ideal_Rock

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    by slg47 » Jun 27, 2011
    I think you can find a better stone for your budget. if you post your preferred specs we can find some suitable online candidates. I would not go with a 'fair' cut...the cut will determine how much the diamond sparkles. also that stone is measuring small for its carat weight, so you could get a smaller well cut stone that will be the same size.
     
  6. bridecat
    Rough_Rock

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    by bridecat » Jun 28, 2011
    The reasonable price for a GIA 1 carat stone is definitely because of the FAIR cut. That is very very low...as the other poster said, lowest GIA gives.

    I would always sacrifice a bit of carat for better cut and maybe even clarity. If you dip below the carat "magic size" you can usually get more bang for your buck.

    Good luck!
     
  7. georgesmith35
    Rough_Rock

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    by georgesmith35 » Jun 28, 2011
    Hi, thanks for the feedback, I am concerned about the fair cut (GIA does have a 'poor' grade). I do have additional info and am curious how far from 'ideal' this stone is. I have read the ideal numbers, and this is not ideal.... what kind of loss of brillinace would one expect with this cut? signifigant visual brilance loss? I DO want quality over absolute size, it seems maybe I should be looking in the under 1 carat size with good or VG cut, possibly with lower color, not sure if dropping to Si2 would be wise for G or VG cut? Thanks for the advice. Its a signifigant purchase and I know im over my head experiencewise here.
    .
    6.17 by 6.23 by 4.16 again its 1.02 carat brillinat round 57 facet
    depth 67% D color
    table 60% Si1
    crown angle 38 polish good
    crown height 15.5% symmetry good
    pavillion angle 42.6 cut FAIR
    pavillion depth 46% flourescence STRONG
    star length 55%
    lower half 85%
    girtle slightly thick to thick faceted
     
  8. slg47
    Ideal_Rock

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    by slg47 » Jun 29, 2011
    ok those numbers look...terrible. 67 is way too deep, the crown is very steep, the pavilion is deep...

    the cut of the stone will determine how 'sparkly' it is. you want to get a well cut stone so that it reflects light back to your eye. as mentioned previously, this stone may WEIGH 1 carat but the diameter is much smaller than what a 1 carat stone should be.


    ETA this one is 0.91 ct but is actually larger in diameter than the one you posted.
    http://goodoldgold.com/diamond/8427/

    this one is 5500 wire price
    http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamond/diamond-detail/?product_id=BLAGS-104052029001

    another one
    http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/H-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1389978.asp
     
  9. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by yssie » Jun 29, 2011
    :-o

    ditto - it's a trainwreck. Would love to see some pics though, and an IS - that'd be one for the books!


    I really think you need to find a new jeweller - this trusted family friend is not looking to do you any favours, obviously.


    ETA - You can play with this tool - https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

    Threads/articles/webpages you may be interested in re. importance of cut -
    https://www.pricescope.com/forum/rockytalky/freaking-out-hca-came-back-as-fair-t130388-30.html
    http://www.goodoldgold.com/articles/giaexconsumersbeaware/
    http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/206/badcutvsgoodcut.jpg/ (AGS ideal vs steep GIA VG)
     
  10. slg47
    Ideal_Rock

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    by slg47 » Jun 29, 2011
    yes I would definitely be interested to see pictures and an idealscope image!!! or a GOG comparison video... I have no idea what a stone of those proportions would look like.

    have you seen it in person? if so I would strongly urge you to look at some ideal cut stones in person (in different lighting, everything sparkles in the jewelry store lighting) and see what you see.
     
  11. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Dancing Fire » Jun 29, 2011
    flush this one down the toilet!! .. :knockout: :knockout:
     
  12. Dancing Fire
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by Dancing Fire » Jun 29, 2011
    rule #1-Never buy diamond from a friend of the family.
     
  13. georgesmith35
    Rough_Rock

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    by georgesmith35 » Jun 29, 2011
    I am digesting the feedback and will almost surely pass on this stone....
     
  14. tyty333
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by tyty333 » Jun 29, 2011
    Please do pass...the cut is the most important part of the stone. Please dont sacrifice the cut to get to the 1 carat mark.
    A well cut .9 stone will look so much more beautiful than a badly cut 1 carat.
     
  15. georgesmith35
    Rough_Rock

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    by georgesmith35 » Jul 2, 2011
    I am looking for a .90-1.1 brillinat round ideal to vg cut, D-F, VVG2 to Si1. $5k is my budget for stone.
     
  16. yssie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by yssie » Jul 2, 2011
    Going to have to compromise a bit, looks like -

    0.91 E SI1 $4.9k http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Premium-Cut-Round-Diamond-1353578.asp
    Thick girdle hiding some weight, but otherwise well-proportioned. In a stone of this size even a thick girdle should not be unsightly. Request IS if interested.

    0.9 E SI1 $5.4k http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/E-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1192351.asp
    looks like a nice one, request IS. 2008 report so you'll want to plan for appraisal of loose stone to confirm that report indicates current condition of the stone

    0.91 G SI1 $5.4k http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1370955.asp
    again looks fine, request IS
     
  17. diamondseeker2006
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by diamondseeker2006 » Jul 2, 2011
    The original stone you posted faced up like a .90 stone anyway, so there was no reason to buy it. A well cut 1 ct. stone will be around 6.5mm. Always look at the diameter. As the others have said, a well cut .90 ct. stone is by far better than a lesser cut 1 ct. stone.
     
  18. Christina...
    Ideal_Rock

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    by Christina... » Jul 2, 2011
    I think that you could really give up some color to get your cut up too. You really shouldn't pay the premium for a D color if you need to sacrifice cut to do so.

    Also a GIA 'good' cut just isn't going to do it for you either. In this case 'good' isn't good enough. You really want to be looking at an excellent cut stone if you want it to perform really well and at the very least a 'very good' cut if the IS and ASET come back looking ok.

    A .85 or a .90 isn't going to look that much smaller than a 1ct, assuming that they are all well cut and not sitting side by side.
     
  19. georgesmith35
    Rough_Rock

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    by georgesmith35 » Jul 3, 2011
    Thank you all for this input, this is a very large purchase for my budget and a I CANNOT judge a diamond with my eye, for the most part they all look 'brilliant'. The feedback I have received has helped me not make a mistake, thanks for your input, I cannot say how much it means
     
  20. georgesmith35
    Rough_Rock

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    by georgesmith35 » Jul 20, 2011
    I have changed my search to GIA excellent cut, EX symmetry, EX polish, VS2 or better. This puts me in .70-.85 carat range at my budget ($4500-5500). Is there a point where the size starts to look 'small'? Is .70-.75 compromising TOO much for quality over size? I know its subjective, but if I can get an idea, roughly what is the smallest size I should be looking at it would help. I could probibly swing a 'hearts and arrows', but it would be around .70-.75.. Are these worth the extra money? Is a GIA EX cut, EX symmetry, EX polish, no flourescence comporable to 'hearts and diamonds'? Or are these truly unique and it shows? They look georgous, but how much will the eye tell? I could get more carat just looking for GIA EX, EX, EX... Thanks for all the help. George
     
  21. centralsquare
    Ideal_Rock

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    by centralsquare » Jul 20, 2011
    Have you looked at diamonds below D color? You can probably drop one - two grades and barely notice a difference. I have an H color and it's pretty white. Dropping a bit in color will allow you to get a better cut, which will have a greater impact on the beauty of the diamond.
     
  22. slg47
    Ideal_Rock

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    by slg47 » Jul 20, 2011
    you are probably OK with SI1 (check with vendor if eye-clean) especially since your initial post was SI1. as far as H&A I don't think you 'need' it but many of the branded H&A diamonds come with better upgrade/buyback policies so that is something to consider if it is important to you. I would look for a non-H&A GIA Ex (use HCA score to find good options) or AGS0 diamond...the ones posted earlier in this thread are probably a good place to start
     

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