Finally bought a ring...and questions

[TraderDude]

You may remember my thread a few days back about the Graff ring that I wanted vs the Harry Winston ring that my wife wanted. We ended up buying a ring from Harry Winston today. It is definitely beautiful. Not the best value, but it was the ring that "spoke" to my wife. It is a center stone of 3.2 cts, E/VVS2 set with tapered baguettes. I''ll definitely post pictures as soon as I can.

I wanted to ship it out of state to avoid huge taxes. HW will ship it out, but what is the best way to ship it back. USPS Registered Mail is insured only up to $25K. FedEx won''t insure jewelry. I see that UPS has something called Flexible Parcel Insurance for high value items. Has anyone used that? Or are there other methods that are generally used?

And what about insurance on the ring itself. I know my homeowners policy won''t cover anything over $10K. Is Chubb usually the best option for insuring the ring against theft, loss, etc? Do most people here insure high value jewelry or self-insure?

 

[denverappraiser]

Congratulations!

Who is your homeowners company? That’s a decidedly unusual restriction. Chub LOVES high value clients, as do most companies.

Depending on where you are shipping from and to, you might just want to go pick it up. If you’re using an out of state appraiser and having HW ship to them, many of us have 3rd party insurance that increases those limits for USPS, FedEx or both and the appraiser can ship it back to you by one of those carriers. They can deliver the report by email so you can bind your policy before you even take possession.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[Regular Guy]

Date: 12/24/2008 6:13:11 PM
Author: denverappraiser
Who is your homeowners company? That’s a decidedly unusual restriction. Chub LOVES high value clients, as do most companies.

Depending on where you are shipping from and to, you might just want to go pick it up. If you’re using an out of state appraiser and having HW ship to them, many of us have 3rd party insurance that increases those limits for USPS, FedEx or both and the appraiser can ship it back to you by one of those carriers. They can deliver the report by email so you can bind your policy before you even take possession.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

That''s Neil...one of our PSAs...(Pricescope Smart Appraisers).

Happy Holidays, to you and yours!

 

[tradergirl]

Send it to Dallas and I''ll bring it back to you

 

[TraderDude]

Forgot to mention.....the wife doesn''t know I actually bought it yet. Gonna surprise her.

 

[pixley]

Nicely done! I can see why she would be drawn to the HW over the Graff. There''s something about those perfect split prongs that really push it beyond the Graff setting, and I would also chose a smaller, colorless stone over a larger, near colorless stone if given the choice. What an incredible surprise.

I agree with Neil''s advice. If you can find a reputable appraiser out of state, have it shipped to him or her, that would be a safer option. I might be inclined to pick it up at the appraiser''s to avoid the whole re-ship hassle.

 

[TraderDude]

I was going to have HW ship it to my sister and have her ship it back to me. Of course, she wouldn''t be part of any special insurance programs that an appraiser might be. How would I find an appraiser who could accept the HW shipment and ship it back to me? I''d have a tough time sending something this valuable to someone I''d never met or done business with. As for picking it up, I don''t know that that is an option because I couldn''t fly somewhere without my wife knowing.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 12/24/2008 6:19:50 PM
Author: tradergirl
Send it to Dallas and I''ll bring it back to you

thought you''ll be the lucky recipient of this ring. TraderDude bought it for Tradergirl. no ??

 

[pixley]

Date: 12/24/2008 8:41:08 PM
Author: TraderDude
I was going to have HW ship it to my sister and have her ship it back to me. Of course, she wouldn''t be part of any special insurance programs that an appraiser might be. How would I find an appraiser who could accept the HW shipment and ship it back to me? I''d have a tough time sending something this valuable to someone I''d never met or done business with. As for picking it up, I don''t know that that is an option because I couldn''t fly somewhere without my wife knowing.

Hmmm, that is a tough one. Would your wife be less suspicious if you both went out to visit your sister, or if you flew your sister out to see you???

 

[CharmyPoo]

Lucky girl! Congrats!

 

[denverappraiser]

OK, how about this: Use the HW paperwork to bind an insurance policy immediately at www.jewelersmutual.com, before they ship. See if you can find an appraiser in the neighborhood of your sister. Have her hand carry it down and wait while the appraisal is done and have the appraiser email the report directly to you. ‘Update’ the JM policy with this new appraisal when it’s complete.

With most policies, if the appraiser steals, damages or loses it while under their control, or if you sister loses it while in her possession this would be a covered loss under your own policy. (the insurer would have the right to subrogate if they thought some shenanigans was going on of course. Ask your underwriter for an explanation of how the coverage works on your particular policy). Have the appraiser ship to you using USPS registered mail and their own coverage. The most common commercial carrier for jewelers and appraisers is this same jewelersmutual company and you should be able to check with them to see if they cover all of the holes from the moment it get’s shipped until you get it and beyond.

You might want to rethink including your sister in this loop. Although I’m sure she’s reliable, you are actually asking for a substantial favor from her and a problem while it’s in her possession would surely result in an investigation and possible legal action by the insurer even if it is a covered loss. This would not be fun and it’s not likely to improve your relationship with her. If the insurer determines that the problem is her fault it would get very sticky indeed. It’s also worth noting that although this process absolves HW from collecting your taxes, it doesn’t prevent you from owing them. You may be asking your sister to assist you in committing a felony (tax evasion). Check with your friendly local tax collectors for the rules about this. Most have websites that spell it out pretty clearly.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[neatfreak]

Date: 12/25/2008 8:44:26 AM
Author: denverappraiser
OK, how about this: Use the HW paperwork to bind an insurance policy immediately at www.jewelersmutual.com, before they ship. See if you can find an appraiser in the neighborhood of your sister. Have her hand carry it down and wait while the appraisal is done and have the appraiser email the report directly to you. ‘Update’ the JM policy with this new appraisal when it’s complete.


With most policies, if the appraiser steals, damages or loses it while under their control, or if you sister loses it while in her possession this would be a covered loss under your own policy. (the insurer would have the right to subrogate if they thought some shenanigans was going on of course. Ask your underwriter for an explanation of how the coverage works on your particular policy). Have the appraiser ship to you using USPS registered mail and their own coverage. The most common commercial carrier for jewelers and appraisers is this same jewelersmutual company and you should be able to check with them to see if they cover all of the holes from the moment it get’s shipped until you get it and beyond.


You might want to rethink including your sister in this loop. Although I’m sure she’s reliable, you are actually asking for a substantial favor from her and a problem while it’s in her possession would surely result in an investigation and possible legal action by the insurer even if it is a covered loss. This would not be fun and it’s not likely to improve your relationship with her. If the insurer determines that the problem is her fault it would get very sticky indeed. It’s also worth noting that although this process absolves HW from collecting your taxes, it doesn’t prevent you from owing them. You may be asking your sister to assist you in committing a felony (tax evasion). Check with your friendly local tax collectors for the rules about this. Most have websites that spell it out pretty clearly.


Neil Beaty

GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA

Professional Appraisals in Denver

Well said as always Neil. Honestly, if you can afford a 3 carat ring from HW, you should just suck it up and pay the taxes on it. May not be a popular opinion, but it''s the right thing to do and also by FAR the safest option. I''d rather not risk it and just pay the taxes myself. Also worth noting that many of the "higher value" policies offered by UPS and Fed Ex specifically exclude jewelry, so make sure to get it in writing that it covers jewelry before getting someone to ship it back to you using one of those services.

OR if you insist on not paying the taxes, can''t Harry Winston just ship it using their own insurance to a Fed Ex facility out of state where you can go pick it up? I am assuming you are in NY, so it would be quite easy for you to hop over to CT or NJ to pick it up, no?

 

[tradergirl]

Nonsense. At the prices he was talking about, you''re talking 25-30K in sales tax. I wouldn''t pay that either.