FI threw the cost of my ring in my face

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/27/2007 9:01:47 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
Ok, I wasn''t going to re-post anymore.... but I was playing around on the internet and this little news buletin type box popped up and it states:


The U.S. Census Bureau has released data proving the substantial value of a degree in the United States. Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year, while those with a high school diploma earn $27,915. But wait, there''s more. Workers with an advanced degree make an average of $74,602, and those without a high school diploma average $18,734.

HMMMM $27915 versus $74602.... somehow I think I made the right decision........ loans~400 a month, increase in monthly income almost 4000......

*sigh*

No one was questioning your decision to get an education DS.

We were questioning your belief that you think parents are obligated to pay for the education of their child.

We were questioning the buying 10K rings and 6K TVs when you are debt (regardless of the reason the debt incurred).

Maybe you need to go back and reread the thread?

 

[firebirdgold]

Heh, maybe we can just start the thread over?

DiamondSmitten, how are you feeling about your ring and fi now? Did you have a chance to talk to him about how it made you feel?

 

[DiamondSmitten]

All I wish is that since my parents could NOT contribute to my education that their income was not taken into account when AID/Loans/grants were calculated. If my own finances were the only ones considered for schooling, I wouldn''t think the ''rents should contribute a cent. HOWEVER, their incomes precluded me from any grants and some federal loans with lower rates.

That being said, I am taking full responsibility for my school loans, just as I took responsibilty for my living expenses and books etc since I started school. The only reason my parents inability to pay for school was even raised was in response to the geniuses who thought the best solution was for my parents to kick us out of their home. Some parents give to their kids by paying for school, life, car etc................. MY parents "give" in other ways which I do not take for granted. Some of my spoiled friends have either NO relationship or a BAD relationships with their parents.... but they have no debt, and have led priveleged lives.... lets be clear.... I would not trade MY situation for ANY less of a loving, awesome relationship... they are my best friends...

In response to someone who said I would be modeling my finances and spending habits on my parent because thats what I learned from... NOT so much.... There are decisions they have made that I have LEARNED from.... a 9000 dollar ring and a (now possibly 3000 dollar entertainment system) are NOT the definition of my/our spending habits but rather HUGE exceptions to the rule.

 

[DiamondSmitten]

YES... statistics lie...sometimes...... and I could list a dozen or so people without degrees that live successfully, there are exceptions to ALL statistics.... but its silly to deny that the chances of making more are better with a degree.... and that MANY careers are UNAPROACHABLE without a degree.

 

[TravelingGal]

Date: 2/27/2007 9:33:27 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
YES... statistics lie...sometimes...... and I could list a dozen or so people without degrees that live successfully, there are exceptions to ALL statistics.... but its silly to deny that the chances of making more are better with a degree.... and that MANY careers are UNAPROACHABLE without a degree.

I''d agree that a higher education betters your chances in certain fields.

I would not agree that higher education is "essential to being a productive individual" which is what you first said. That is just hogwash.

I need to go eat dinner...I''m obviously way too argumentative for my own good! IndieJones, you''re on the money with your last post!

 

[DiamondSmitten]

Indie, my FI and I have talked about the original incident and he agreed he didn''t mean it the way it came out and that he wouldn''t use it as a bargaining point or weapon in the future.

However I am NOT feeling better about my ring, the TV or much of anything after reading this thread. I think the FI still thinks I got my luxury item and he wants his, and I think I''d rather sell my ring, put all 15000 into the house, or investment for future or loans because I have never been made to feel so inadequate in my life... Where I am, I am well educated, with a great head on my shoulders and ahead of the game having my masters at 22. I make wiser decisions everyday then most people I know my age or even 2, 5 or 10 years older than me, after reading this.... maybe everyone around me makes terrible decisions? I am not sure.... what I AM sure of is that someone who could help us with this is an ACTUAL Financial advisor. We will certainly be looking into that if we can just figure out what to do with the ring first......

 

[DiamondSmitten]

Tgal, Yes, HOGWASH, I am woman enough to admit that, I used that term in response to the post that said parents were only responsible for feeding, clothing and sending their child into the world a productive individual. I think 30 years ago, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago parents had no responsibility to help with an education, and making a living was easier without one, but now.... the world, our country is different. I should also qualify that the way people in my life/town etc usually count providing for an education as being able to provide the majority of a four year, IN STATE TUITION, not necessarily including room and board which are not essential to the education in many instances. If the child decides to stay on campus, go to a private or more expensive school or take longer than 4 years.... that’s for SURE on THEM.

A coworker of mine pointed out today that her husband who is a VERY successful plumber/sub contractor has an apprentice who will eventually take over his business now has to take several required classes and certifications that were not needed for her own husband..... so even trades are changing towards needed advanced education.

 

[poptart]

Do you have any friends that went to school with you that majored in accounting? I know it''s not the same as a financial advisor, but it would give you a vague idea where to start. One of my good friends is studying for accounting, and while I wouldn''t place stocks just because she said so, she has given me some extremely sound advice, such as saving in your 401k, how much to put in that 401k, a safe amount to have saved up for financial security et cetera. Plus, it''s free to talk to her, lol. Discussing money, especially when you are staring down the barrel of getting a brand new job or just graduating, is extremely daunting. Maybe sitting down and mapping out your long term plans and goals for your savings would help a little. I don''t just mean discuss them, I mean write them down so you have something to refer back to and remind yourself of what you want to accomplish.

*M*

 

[poptart]

Date: 2/27/2007 9:48:18 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten

Tgal, Yes, HOGWASH, I am woman enough to admit that, I used that term in response to the post that said parents were only responsible for feeding, clothing and sending their child into the world a productive individual. I think 30 years ago, 20 years ago, even 10 years ago parents had no responsibility to help with an education, and making a living was easier without one, but now.... the world, our country is different. I should also qualify that the way people in my life/town etc usually count providing for an education as being able to provide the majority of a four year, IN STATE TUITION, not necessarily including room and board which are not essential to the education in many instances. If the child decides to stay on campus, go to a private or more expensive school or take longer than 4 years.... that’s for SURE on THEM.

A coworker of mine pointed out today that her husband who is a VERY successful plumber/sub contractor has an apprentice who will eventually take over his business now has to take several required classes and certifications that were not needed for her own husband..... so even trades are changing towards needed advanced education.

Yes, the times are definitely changing and more formal classes are needed for jobs that used to just be learned on the job. DH is planning on going into metalworking and welding soon, and there are a bunch of metalworking classes that he needs to take. Who knew? I think it's great that there are different avenues for people to take though if they don't want to do the regular four year institution, because goodness knows it's not for everybody (and sometimes I wonder if it's for me, lol!).

 

[Cehrabehra]

Date: 2/27/2007 9:01:47 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
Ok, I wasn''t going to re-post anymore.... but I was playing around on the internet and this little news buletin type box popped up and it states:


The U.S. Census Bureau has released data proving the substantial value of a degree in the United States. Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year, while those with a high school diploma earn $27,915. But wait, there''s more. Workers with an advanced degree make an average of $74,602, and those without a high school diploma average $18,734.

HMMMM $27915 versus $74602.... somehow I think I made the right decision........ loans~400 a month, increase in monthly income almost 4000......

statisitics are statistics - people with masters degrees are turned away for being overqualified and people with AA degrees make 90k.

Odds are better if you have a degree, but you can get one without going 70k in debt or having mom and dad pay for everything.

 

[poptart]

Date: 2/27/2007 9:56:50 PM
Author: Cehrabehra

Date: 2/27/2007 9:01:47 PM

Author: DiamondSmitten

Ok, I wasn''t going to re-post anymore.... but I was playing around on the internet and this little news buletin type box popped up and it states:



The U.S. Census Bureau has released data proving the substantial value of a degree in the United States. Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year, while those with a high school diploma earn $27,915. But wait, there''s more. Workers with an advanced degree make an average of $74,602, and those without a high school diploma average $18,734.


HMMMM $27915 versus $74602.... somehow I think I made the right decision........ loans~400 a month, increase in monthly income almost 4000......

statisitics are statistics - people with masters degrees are turned away for being overqualified and people with AA degrees make 90k.


Odds are better if you have a degree, but you can get one without going 70k in debt or having mom and dad pay for everything.

I think it is not about the degree you get, but rather your perseverance and dedication to achieving your goals. Degrees will take you nowhere if you don''t put yourself out there and try. Like they say, "you can do anything you set your mind to."

 

[cara]

Date: 2/27/2007 9:10:53 PM
Author: monarch64
funny, both DH and I have 4 yr. degrees, but are close friends with a couple in which neither he nor she possess any higher education...yet they live in the same neighborhood we do, drive similar cars, have very similar possessions, etc. Either they are drowning in debt or they somehow managed to work hard and find great jobs where they could make a very similar income to ours without college degrees.

Funny, neither of my parents had degrees (although my father had almost 7 years of college education, my mother 1), however, they were able to have two children, put them both through school, and my father has been self-employed for the last 40 years and successful enough that my mother never ''had'' to work, although she did anyway.

Statistics lie, that''s for sure.

Ds, whatever you choose to do with your money is your decision, but I really hope that you don''t think a degree of any type, or lack thereof, guarantees one''s financial success. I really wish you the best and I hope that you attain everything you want in life.

While I agree that higher education doesn''t guarantee success, and less educated people can be successful, that doesn''t mean that "statistics lie". At least not in this instance.

Bill Gates possesses some absolutely extraordinary personal talent and ambition that allowed him to be extraordinarily successful in spite of dropping out of Harvard. Does that mean your average person would be better served dropping out of Harvard or completing the degree? The median person would be better off with the degree. And even though Gates did drop out, some of his initial commercial successes were accomplished using Harvard resources and inspired by the environment at Harvard, so at least it was a useful stepping stone on his path. DS clearly stated that her statistic was an average. Its like saying "well I know someone that one the lottery so it must be a smart investment to play the lottery a lot." The statistics on lottery ticket investment returns tell me this is a bad idea.

I agree with DS that I would feel like a bad parent if I were not able to help my kids out with higher education. My family was able to do that for me, and it really opens up a lot of paths and even though I am still a poor grad student, the lack of debt from college is a great. Doesn''t anyone else''s parents were horrible parents cause they weren''t able to help their kids with that...

DS I really sympathize with your situation, as my FI and I really struggle with this idea that we should have these nice things, we deserve them, but it is a constant balance. Thinking about "deserving" a ring or "deserving" a 5k telly are a really bad path to go on. Just because we are highly educated, just because our friends (that pursued quicker paths to lucrative salaries) can have them, doesn''t mean we should buy them... And this feeling of "deserving" nice things (which we are both susceptible to) doesn''t help us make good decisions.

 

[San Diego Bride]

i have a hard time questioning anyone''s educational debt. i''m sure you can get a good education for less than 70k. and i know you can spend more. as i mentioned in my post on page 3, my husband and i each have 6 figures of educational debt (bs, masters, and md for each of us). and you know what? it was worth every penny to us. that having been said, i find it absolutely unacceptable to carry any sort of credit card balance. to me "education" and "stuff" are not even close. but everyone has their own priorities.

i know that education does not automatically translate to success and i''m sure that there are many people out there with less formal education than i have who make more money than me. but it would be hard to argue that higher education doesn''t give you an advantage in life. is it an absolute necessity? no. but it sure seems to help.

 

[cara]

Date: 2/27/2007 9:39:39 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
Indie, my FI and I have talked about the original incident and he agreed he didn''t mean it the way it came out and that he wouldn''t use it as a bargaining point or weapon in the future.


However I am NOT feeling better about my ring, the TV or much of anything after reading this thread. I think the FI still thinks I got my luxury item and he wants his, and I think I''d rather sell my ring, put all 15000 into the house, or investment for future or loans because I have never been made to feel so inadequate in my life... Where I am, I am well educated, with a great head on my shoulders and ahead of the game having my masters at 22. I make wiser decisions everyday then most people I know my age or even 2, 5 or 10 years older than me, after reading this.... maybe everyone around me makes terrible decisions? I am not sure.... what I AM sure of is that someone who could help us with this is an ACTUAL Financial advisor. We will certainly be looking into that if we can just figure out what to do with the ring first......

I feel for you here... I guess... I don''t think you should be looking to sell your ring. At least not unless a financial advisor recommends it, as we all know that you woln''t get what you paid for it. You probably shouldn''t have bought that much ring but you knew that already.

Many people have religous, emotional feelings on debt and thought that you weren''t taking a responsible approach, and your FI especially was using one excessive purchase to justify another.

Then you got defensive, provided a lot of justification and excuses that people cherry-picked from to beat up on you; you made some more (somewhat possibly inflammatory) off topic statements on education costs and people jumped on you for that too...

Go back and read your first post. My initial reading was that you were emotionally hurt by your FI''s use of ring cost in an argument AND that you were very stressed by your financial situation and that FI wanting a luxury item ($5k telly) in retaliation for your ring wasn''t helping. That was my impression from your post, and even though you later said you were completely fine with your financial situation many people here feel that you should be doing things differently. The best outcome here would be for you and your FI to collectively evaluate your financial situation and come up with a game plan that you are both comfortable with, that meets your (hopefully responsible) financial goals, provides a framework for your lifestyle and luxury purchases.

Its a lot easier said than done, cause there is a balance between the debt-is-evil get rid of it at all costs and the living life arguments.

 

[Scooba]

Date: 2/27/2007 9:01:47 PM
Author: DiamondSmitten
Ok, I wasn''t going to re-post anymore.... but I was playing around on the internet and this little news buletin type box popped up and it states:



The U.S. Census Bureau has released data proving the substantial value of a degree in the United States. Workers 18 and over sporting bachelors degrees earn an average of $51,206 a year, while those with a high school diploma earn $27,915. But wait, there''s more. Workers with an advanced degree make an average of $74,602, and those without a high school diploma average $18,734.


HMMMM $27915 versus $74602.... somehow I think I made the right decision........ loans~400 a month, increase in monthly income almost 4000......

So what you''re saying is you have almost $50,000 extra (compared to the average high school grad who does not live in poverty) a year to put toward your college debt, that thing will be gone in 18 months!

I am 23, starting law school in the fall, when I graduated from a top school with an average starting salary of $125,000, I plan on living off not so modest (let''s say) $50,000 a year income less than 18 months and getting that debt knocked off, there will be no 35 years of loan payments for me!!!!

I understand you don''t make that kind of money, but I''m hoping you''ll see my point..

 

[cara]

Date: 2/27/2007 10:42:11 PM
Author: Diamonds are Hot!
So what you''re saying is you have almost $50,000 extra (compared to the average high school grad who does not live in poverty) a year to put toward your college debt, that thing will be gone in 18 months!

Um, no. Are you intentionally misunderstanding the statistic she presented just to ridicule DS more? You can''t assume that averages are a given person''s specifics. Can''t assume that she is in a region of the country where living on $18k a year is a good option. Can''t assume she''s reached the $50k salary yet as I''m guessing that the pay gap between more and less educated people increases with time after graduation (though I may be wrong.) Can''t assume that those people earning $18k a year have comparable expenses. What if she needs a better wardrobe, expensive stuff for her job, certification or various job related fees?

When I first got out of college I took a job paying $21k and thought I would be all set! No problem! So much more $ than I had ever had before. But life adds up and what if you have car expenses on your old car, need dental work, need reasonable clothes to show up to work in, need to fly home when someone gets sick? Any little thing would throw me off budget. I think that''s the whole point. Many places in the US, it is no fun to live on $18k per year, let alone consistent with all jobs and lifestyles. Hence the whole desire to get a better education so one can afford a better quality of life.

I had lots of these arguments with my FI about scrimping and saving vs. living a little on the low income, with the context that one day there should be higher income. There''s a balance. Don''t want to dig yourself in a hole, do want to save and plan for your future and emergencies, but you also don''t want to stay locked up spending no money forever missing out on life. Sure, DS could stay at home with her parents eating ramen noodles for the next X years, marry her FI at the courthouse and sell all their electronics and her ring to pay off her debt.... But what a way to live!

My point is, there is a balance. For many people, getting a $5k TV or diamond ring vs. paying down school debt or mortgauge doesn''t even pass the laugh test, and many (including me) were trying to get DS to consider the benefits of getting rid of the debt monkey on her back. But there are other worthy things in life besides paying off debt as fast as possible. Remember the folks that were jumping on DS to move out from her parents place when they thought she was just mooching? Buying a house might be a worthy goal. Saving for retirement might be a worthy goal. Throwing a modest wedding might be worth it. Heck, getting more education by sinking even farther in debt might be a good choice for some. Anyway...

 

[miss_flo]

DiamondSmitten,

I skipped over the peripheral discussions about your debt and family because the core question is whether or not you should be upset over FI throwing the ring cost in your face.

Chivalry may be dead but I believe there are certain things a potential husband simply should not discuss. The ring price is one of them. If he had doubts about finances before buying the ring, he should have resolved those reservations before going through with the proposal. Silly boys and their TVs.

Tell him to find a cheap hobby and get off his butt. It''s called "the outdoors," he should give it a try.

 

[fire&ice]

No one is questioning the source of the debt. It is the handling of such debt. 35 years? Are you serious? A house mortgage would be paid off quicker

. Honestly, do you not see something wrong with that plan? I''m not trying to be inflamatory. I really don''t understand how this would be a course of action. At the end, do you see how much you really are paying for your education and have no tangible assest in the end ($168k)? If you don''t pay electronically you will be paying over 17k in postage

. If you see the wisdom in this course, please do consult a financial planner instead of shopping for a 6k t.v.

It''s not about the amount of money. It''s about the amount of money relative to salary/ net worth. That T.V. with be (after taxes) about 25% of your yearly income. 1/4!

In the end, you will do what you want to do. People are just pointing out to pause a little.

Maybe I''m not a techno person. We don''t even have cable. Is this 6,5 even 3k system a status symbol?

 

[basil]

I can only speak from my experience, but my financial planner told me not to rush to pay off my student loan debt. It's consolidated (fixed) at 2.75%. I'm much better off maxing out my retirement accounts, paying down my mortgage, or even just buying CDs than paying it off. Depending on DiamondSmitten's interest rate, it may be much more financially sound to save for a bigger downpayment/extra mortgage payments rather than paying her student loan debt off early.

I don't really see student loan debt as that much different than a mortgage. It's debt, but it's reasonable, necessary debt. And how many people buy luxury items when their mortgage isn't paid off? LOTS. Whether that's right or wrong, I don't know why everyone is jumping all over her.

 

[larussel03]

Date: 2/28/2007 9:21:18 AM
Author: basil
I can only speak from my experience, but my financial planner told me not to rush to pay off my student loan debt. It''s consolidated (fixed) at 2.75%. I''m much better off maxing out my retirement accounts, paying down my mortgage, or even just buying CDs than paying it off. Depending on DiamondSmitten''s interest rate, it may be much more financially sound to save for a bigger downpayment/extra mortgage payments rather than paying her student loan debt off early.

I don''t really see student loan debt as that much different than a mortgage. It''s debt, but it''s reasonable, necessary debt. And how many people buy luxury items when they''re mortgage isn''t paid off? LOTS. Whether that''s right or wrong, I don''t know why everyone is jumping all over her.

My dad (who is great with financial planning also) told me the same. He basically said not to break my back trying to pay off my loans early because they''re such a low interest rate. That said, I only have to pay $350 a month to get them paid in 10 years (maybe a year or two more b/c I''m sure there are going to be months where I can only afford to pay the 200 minimum, that''s life), so it''s not so bad for me to try and plan for paying them off early. My POV on this is that if it is feasilble and you can still put money away for savings and pay for everything else you have to, then put the most you can into the loans just to get them over with. I see it as a goal to have one less bill to pay a month! : )

 

[Jas12]

This thread is getting a little silly....we could all give anecdotal examples till we are blue in the face--a few can illustrate a point, but anecdote after anecdote does nothing but confuse and reiterate...I think we can come to this conclusion education is generally good. Debt is generally bad. Rings, TV’s, homes, cars ect. should be purchased within one''s means. Parents should provide love and support first, financial support second....(JM2C)

DS, I don''t think you should sell your ring--even if you do feel you overspent it is still a very valuable commodity both symbolically and monetarily. This episode will pass and you will look back at your ring, engagement etc. as a time of change and growth--let if symbolize the great things and the growing pains you and your FI have encountered.
I know how you feel when you say you think your ring is ''tainted'' I went through H*LL and back with my ring. Very long story short-- I dealt with a poorly set ring (had to return it) then a jeweler who was a total nightmare to work with-ended up finally dealing with a fabulous dealer here--re-designed the thing traveled across the country, spent countless hours emailing, calling , stressing, worrying that dragged on for 8 months of the engagment...I felt like the thing was more a symbol of stress and the absurdity of the diamond industry than love and commitment...but I am slowly adjusting my point of view and I am trying to see the positive in it all. Life is such a learning experience, and sometimes the lessons are HARD!

 

[So_happy]

The more I think about it, the more it seems unlikely that OP really meant that those who don''t go to college are truly unproductive individuals. As in, they are somehow "not contributory to our society". It makes more sense that she meant it as she later clarifies....that simply it is her experience and those of many others that education increases the liklihood that one will financially succeed.

My mom is a hospice worker and has been doing that work for forever (and, no, did not go to college). It is emotionally and physically hard work and her salary doesn''t begin to compensate her fairly for it, IMHO...........but I honestly feel that NO ONE could think that people that do these kinds of jobs are not contributing to our society. So, I choose to believe in the goodness of OP

She really came here all upset about one thing and instead has had to deal with 1)her finanical state, 2)her childhood issues of feeling entitled, and 3)the future of her future possible children instead

. It''s starting to sound like one of those fights that FI and I have where I''m peeved about the cap being left off the toothpaste but somehow it turns into something about how his mother always does x and says y and my friend never really liked him and blah blah blah

.

I think it would be nice if we can all remember that when we are upset, sometimes that issue is all we can think of and we get a case myopic thinking....and to go to others for perspective is a skill that, I believe, is highly adaptive and useful. When those "others" are in the form of a forum, we tend to try to give a background to help put the problem in context......but that shouldn''t mean the context itself need be analyzed as an issue in itself. Now...had she come here and asked IF they should buy this TV and then proceeded to explain finanical stuff to help us give better informed advice, then I can see more justification.

I notice we are all quick to put her FI''s remarks about her e-ring in the "He didn''t intend it that way...he''s just a guy" category but we are not so quick to deduct her comments in that way.

Personally, it seems we''ve chimed in about the central problem of her FI''s feelings towards her ring.......but I hear her say that even now, days later, she feels the ring is tarnished in some way. I believe she even made a comment about figuring out what to do with the ring a bit back!! THIS is why she came here.......she''s distraut.

OP: If you ever come back here to check on your thread''s status......how are things now? What he said only you know how it made you feel and it must have hurt alot. I am sorry you are going through that during a time when you probably wish you''d be blissfully happy.

 

[Scooba]

Date: 2/28/2007 1:15:12 AM
Author: cara

Date: 2/27/2007 10:42:11 PM

Author: Diamonds are Hot!

So what you''re saying is you have almost $50,000 extra (compared to the average high school grad who does not live in poverty) a year to put toward your college debt, that thing will be gone in 18 months!

Um, no. Are you intentionally misunderstanding the statistic she presented just to ridicule DS more? You can''t assume that averages are a given person''s specifics. Can''t assume that she is in a region of the country where living on $18k a year is a good option. Can''t assume she''s reached the $50k salary yet as I''m guessing that the pay gap between more and less educated people increases with time after graduation (though I may be wrong.) Can''t assume that those people earning $18k a year have comparable expenses. What if she needs a better wardrobe, expensive stuff for her job, certification or various job related fees?


When I first got out of college I took a job paying $21k and thought I would be all set! No problem! So much more $ than I had ever had before. But life adds up and what if you have car expenses on your old car, need dental work, need reasonable clothes to show up to work in, need to fly home when someone gets sick? Any little thing would throw me off budget. I think that''s the whole point. Many places in the US, it is no fun to live on $18k per year, let alone consistent with all jobs and lifestyles. Hence the whole desire to get a better education so one can afford a better quality of life.


I had lots of these arguments with my FI about scrimping and saving vs. living a little on the low income, with the context that one day there should be higher income. There''s a balance. Don''t want to dig yourself in a hole, do want to save and plan for your future and emergencies, but you also don''t want to stay locked up spending no money forever missing out on life. Sure, DS could stay at home with her parents eating ramen noodles for the next X years, marry her FI at the courthouse and sell all their electronics and her ring to pay off her debt.... But what a way to live!


My point is, there is a balance. For many people, getting a $5k TV or diamond ring vs. paying down school debt or mortgauge doesn''t even pass the laugh test, and many (including me) were trying to get DS to consider the benefits of getting rid of the debt monkey on her back. But there are other worthy things in life besides paying off debt as fast as possible. Remember the folks that were jumping on DS to move out from her parents place when they thought she was just mooching? Buying a house might be a worthy goal. Saving for retirement might be a worthy goal. Throwing a modest wedding might be worth it. Heck, getting more education by sinking even farther in debt might be a good choice for some. Anyway...

Um, I wasn''t referring to the $18k a year stat, obviously I was referring to the $27.9k stat, and um, maybe you should had read the whole post.

 

[wendybird]

Okay, I didn''t read too much b/c well.... it made my stomach churn to see people tear you up like that. Everybody has their own issues and I don''t see why they must judge you.

To give my 2 cents on your FI, ring & entertainment center. Since I also had issues with FI on how much to spend on a ring, just recently bought a house and also had entertainment center issue.... I think I can speak fairly intelligently on this issue.

First off, CONGRATULATIONS for paying off all your credit card debt. That''s about the smartest thing you can possibly do, and if you can stand living at home, so be it. It''s a means to an end. Seeing as your parents dont'' mind you staying with them, I sure don''t understand why everybody has an issue with it. My mom would be MORE than happy to have me stay with her, but I couldn''t do it b/c of my limited freedom. House loans are a big thing, after you a buy a house, unfortunately also comes more debt... so it wouldn''t make sense not to pay off the CC debt first... you''re doing the right thing.

Ring. Prior to us getting engaged, my FI balked at how much the rings I liked cost. Since I was in 3rd grade, I knew what the 4c''s stood for & what''s important in a quality of a diamond. He threw a fit and said some pretty hurtful things to me too. To the point that I just didn''t even want a dang ring. Now since then, we have talked about it and what he said was out of frustration and stress b/c he wanted to get me my dream ring, but he was at odds with himself about spending that kind of money on that.

Entertainment center. Honestly? This is what alot of guys deem as "important." I dunno about you, but FI does watch TV, ALOT. And we spent a pretty penny on the entertainment center. Should your FI have thrown the cost of your ring in your face? No. But were you giving him alot of flack for it and did he feel like he was backed into a corner? Probably yes. In a calm situation, if you explained your fiance how his comment hurt you, I bet he''d wish he never brought it up. He probably just said that as a "what can I do to ''reason'' with her so I can get my entertainment center?" Yeah 5k is alot of money, but I can suggest 2 things. 1.) Ask him if he can break it down on what he wants... and see if you can''t shop online or somewhere to see if you can''t find things cheaper... you''ll be VERY surprised. Cnet.com is a great way to start. Also 2.) can you buy this entertainment center in sections? like TV first, then speakers, then other stuff? I think the most important to realize is when FI wants something this badly, maybe you can look at how to make it work... more cheaply, than not at all. Do you think that would work for you?

Final opinon & 2 cents? Money''s a huge issue that can break marriages. Communication, miscommunication or the lack their of also can break marriage. I think that everybody should have some counseling before marriage and focus ALOT on those two things. And I have taken my own advice, and hopefully we''re armed with enough information to last forever=o). I highly recommend that you guys do that.

 

[Michelle101]

Newbie here, going back to the original topic of the post...

DS - I don't think your fiance's "throwing the cost of your ring in your face" for an entertainment system is as huge a deal as you think. Sure, it might be rationalization, but everyone does it. Just like your reference to his "free" $3,000 to rationalize the purchase of a $10,000 ring - It's still money in the bank no matter how you slice it. I'm sure your fiance didn't have bad intentions when this discussion came up - the man just wants his TV.

I'm going against the grain here, but if I were you, I'd let him have the TV once you move into your own place. As long as you're not digging yourself into a hole financially, and it doesn't become a lifelong pattern of frivolous spending, go for it. When my fiance and I graduated college, a big-screen TV was the first thing into our home. Most people would probably say we've got our priorities messed up, but whatever, to each their own. The TV was the first and last thing my fiance has ever asked for. You guys are saving for a home (yay!) - either way, the house + TV is going to cost X number of dollars. If you come up with the house money first, what's stopping you from moving out right away and putting the TV as priority #2? No point in sitting at your parents house waiting till you have the $ for a TV when you can be sitting in your own house waiting till you have the $ for a TV.

Here's another point - you guys need to be making financial decisions together. BOTH of you decided to buy the expensive engagement ring, so BOTH of you need to agree on the TV. If you don't think you can afford the TV, and he wants it, he's not entitled to it just because he spent a ton of $ on your ring.

There's my take!

 

[kohdy]

Wow... this is truly one of the most intense thread I have ever encountered... I am, in fact, very hesitant to even post anything here, but I guess I will give it a try.

DS, I am really sorry that all the posts-even the helpful ones- somehow ended up hurting your feelings even more. But I think it all comes down to this: everyone here is trying to help you in their own way. I know that various methods and comments used by different posters aren''t being digested so well with you, but try not to take it too personally. After all, all the comments have some value to them.

I know very well what it is like to be in grave student debt (how about double yours to $135K). I also know how difficult it is to resist succumbing to temptations all around us! Come on... Let''s face it. Even the most disciplined person in this forum has at one point splurged on something that he/she shouldn''t have. The most important thing is, do not lose sight of the overall picture! As long as you have a long term goal that you are woking toward and a sound plan to get you there, I know things will turn out just fine!

I have a big mortgage (I live in a nice house in San Jose, CA) on top of my student loan and some family obligations, a nice ring-which cost my hubby more than twice yours- that is all paid for, and a luxury car that is allso paid for. However, I make sure that I save monthly for my retirement. I also watch my spendings very carefully by sticking to my monthly budgets... I don''t buy myself little toys like handbags, trendy clothes, designer shoes, jewelry, etc. I think it really all comes down to prioritizing! It''s okay to spend a little as long as you do it sparingly-after all, you need to live too! The honest truth is that no one knows what the future holds! My advice is to live every day like it is your last... Just do everything within the budget, though!

Anyway, DS, I hope you''ll find peace soon. I know that often times we hurt the people we love the most... I know your BF probably didn''t mean it the way you interpreted. The ring I am sure is very meaningful to him, too... You should not think any less of your ring. Enjoy it because it is beautiful! The ring frankly should be that one thing that will remind you of how much he loves you when things aren''t so rosy... The timing for the entertainment system could have been better as suggested by others, but if he wants it now and if you are able to afford it, let him have it gladly. Make sure, though, that you''ll save up that much harder after the big purchase! This will make you feel wonderful I think.

 

[kellyfish]

I''ve only read the first post, but this is not about a ring it''s about how you both settle conflicts/disagreements. There will be a thousand important issues (childrearing, etc) to disagree on in your life together---so it is VIP to work on your conflict resolution skills now. Best wishes & I totally know how you feel ........