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Feedback on a Diamond Purchase

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am0n

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 3, 2014
Messages
26
Hi All,

New to the forum, but was hoping to get some opinions. I just sat down with a local company to purchase an engagement ring. I feel a bit as if I was high-balled on the price of the diamond.

http://www.eglusa.com/verify-a-report-results/?st_num=88801909

We spent some time looking at different diamonds and I was surprised that I was actually able to see the difference in color and the inclusions. My budget isn't huge, so as much as I'd love to have been able to get a close to perfect diamond, that isn't really in the budget. The one I linked above seems quite clean, had a much nicer cut as far as I could tell (I thought it looked like a very good stone). The main issue was a noticeable and large inclusion on the side. The sales associate mentioned that it wasn't too big of a deal as the prong from the ring would hide it (mostly, I imagine, as it seems to be on the order of size as the prong). I could see the inclusion without a loop, but once set it probably wouldn't be too noticeable (as compared to others where they were like an SI1 with a major gash across the face).

My main issues is afterward I came home and checked their Loose Diamond prices on their own website. For something comparable in terms of the 4 Cs, there were diamonds on their own website that were anywhere from $400 to $800 cheaper. I called the store back and the sales rep told me that "I got a good diamond for a good price and that the diamonds on the website are from Israel and aren't good." I saw one, even from Israel EGL that was a VVS2, ID and color H (which seemed quite clear to me) on their own website that was $400 cheaper than what I was charged.

Now, after looking at the diamonds, I can definitely see how even a SI2 can be a nicer gem than a VS2 based on inclusions (I saw a VS2 that had inclusions, but they were 'clear', but it still made the diamond look foggy), so I suppose it could be that those diamonds aren't as good, but it seems hard for me to fathom how the company can charge such different prices on the website and store.

I guess what I am curious about, is does this seem normal? What should I have expected to pay for a gem like the one I linked/described? I don't have a photo, so unfortunately I can't link.
 
:wavey: Welcome!
How much was the diamond? you can do a diamond search at the top of the page and see the range of prices.

Your diamond scored 2.6 on the HCA, which means it's good if the price is right.

You chose the top color and almost the bottom clarity. You could have gone to at least G color without a problem and perhaps balanced that by getting a little better clarity.
What is the inclusion?

My understanding is the the lab that produced your certificate does not always tell you what you really have.
Most diamonds look good in the store - they have special lighting. It's how it looks other places that's important.

It's hard to tell without more information if you did OK or not.
 
$2,200 was the price for the diamond. I actually told her I'd have been fine with a G or an H color, but all the G and H she brought me weren't eye clean or pleasant to look at (one had what looked like a score across the center of the stone, all the way across, another was foggy looking, another had a lot of black dots all over, including the top). This was was the best I saw in terms of what I thought looked clean, except for one large inclusion near the edge. I'm not sure what else you are asking when you say what is the inclusion. It was dark, though. Otherwise, nothing appeared obvious, even with the loupe. I'm sure someone more adept at spotting things would have found something else, but that was all I could see that stood out. (it was somewhat large, though... roughly the size of the prong on the ring).

I guess based on what I was looking at online, I was intending on something like a G or H in a VVS2 or so, but she didn't bring out any of those. I'm not sure why, I suppose I should have requested some, but at the prices she was bringing out the VS2s and SI1/2s, I can't imagine she would have brought a H/VVS2 near my price range. However, looking at their website, I see there is an H/VVS2/ID they have advertised for ~$1,850, which is why I am concerned I was priced high. But, to counter that, I did see a D color, SI2 that seemed to be identical to what the diamond I picked was and it was $2,200 on their website.

Overall, if they can cover up most of the inclusion once set, I think it'll be a nice stone (given my absolute novice experience in this). I just want to make sure I'm not being overcharged.
 
am0n|1399155481|3665683 said:
$2,200 was the price for the diamond. I actually told her I'd have been fine with a G or an H color, but all the G and H she brought me weren't eye clean or pleasant to look at (one had what looked like a score across the center of the stone, all the way across, another was foggy looking, another had a lot of black dots all over, including the top). This was was the best I saw in terms of what I thought looked clean, except for one large inclusion near the edge. I'm not sure what else you are asking when you say what is the inclusion. It was dark, though. Otherwise, nothing appeared obvious, even with the loupe. I'm sure someone more adept at spotting things would have found something else, but that was all I could see that stood out. (it was somewhat large, though... roughly the size of the prong on the ring).

I guess based on what I was looking at online, I was intending on something like a G or H in a VVS2 or so, but she didn't bring out any of those. I'm not sure why, I suppose I should have requested some, but at the prices she was bringing out the VS2s and SI1/2s, I can't imagine she would have brought a H/VVS2 near my price range. However, looking at their website, I see there is an H/VVS2/ID they have advertised for ~$1,850, which is why I am concerned I was priced high. But, to counter that, I did see a D color, SI2 that seemed to be identical to what the diamond I picked was and it was $2,200 on their website.

Overall, if they can cover up most of the inclusion once set, I think it'll be a nice stone (given my absolute novice experience in this). I just want to make sure I'm not being overcharged.
Click to expand...

I agree that going down in colour to get a higher clarity would have been an option. What is the return policy on the diamond? Where did you purchase it from?

Cut is King, so I personally would not have settled for anything less than ideal. Although EGL USA arent regarded like AGS and GIA on this forum, they are far better than EGL International, Israel etc.
 
The reason I asked what type of inclusion it was- because my understanding is that a feather in an SI2 stone may not be good for the structural integrity of the diamond. So it's good to know those details.
 
Receipt says "No Refunds after 14 days," so I assume that I have until then to change anything. It sounds like the suggestion is to cancel it and look for a diamond that might be a different color but an ideal cut or better clarity? There are a bunch on their website, many seems to suggest you can request to view them in store (but they have a few stores, so not sure they'd all be in the one I went to).

Company is Barmakian.

What is a "feather?" The inclusion in the one I was looking at is similar to the dark one on the right hand side of this image. Probably a bit bigger, but a bit closer to the edge.

http://www.jamesallen.com/diampics/YB2002PIC.JPG

Edit: Also, while the EGL report I linked seems to be EGL USA, the D/SI2/VG on the website that is the same $2,200 is a EGL-Israel. So again, not sure if that is the same stone, but if it is, it's an EGL-Israel appraised stone.

Edit2: On their website, they have ID and EX as cuts along with VG and G, etc. Is EX a cut worth pursuing also? Or should I really just stick to ID?

Edit3: On their website, they list Depth/Table and the dimensions, but not the angles. Is there a way to calculate the angles from that information to input into the HCA calculator?
 
am0n|1399150609|3665648 said:
Hi All,

New to the forum, but was hoping to get some opinions. I just sat down with a local company to purchase an engagement ring. I feel a bit as if I was high-balled on the price of the diamond.

http://www.eglusa.com/verify-a-report-results/?st_num=88801909

We spent some time looking at different diamonds and I was surprised that I was actually able to see the difference in color and the inclusions. My budget isn't huge, so as much as I'd love to have been able to get a close to perfect diamond, that isn't really in the budget. The one I linked above seems quite clean, had a much nicer cut as far as I could tell (I thought it looked like a very good stone). The main issue was a noticeable and large inclusion on the side. The sales associate mentioned that it wasn't too big of a deal as the prong from the ring would hide it (mostly, I imagine, as it seems to be on the order of size as the prong). I could see the inclusion without a loop, but once set it probably wouldn't be too noticeable (as compared to others where they were like an SI1 with a major gash across the face).

My main issues is afterward I came home and checked their Loose Diamond prices on their own website. For something comparable in terms of the 4 Cs, there were diamonds on their own website that were anywhere from $400 to $800 cheaper. I called the store back and the sales rep told me that "I got a good diamond for a good price and that the diamonds on the website are from Israel and aren't good." I saw one, even from Israel EGL that was a VVS2, ID and color H (which seemed quite clear to me) on their own website that was $400 cheaper than what I was charged.

Now, after looking at the diamonds, I can definitely see how even a SI2 can be a nicer gem than a VS2 based on inclusions (I saw a VS2 that had inclusions, but they were 'clear', but it still made the diamond look foggy), so I suppose it could be that those diamonds aren't as good, but it seems hard for me to fathom how the company can charge such different prices on the website and store.

I guess what I am curious about, is does this seem normal? What should I have expected to pay for a gem like the one I linked/described? I don't have a photo, so unfortunately I can't link.
Click to expand...

I ran this through Diamcalc and get an AGS5 light performance prediction. With the 40.7 pavilion angle you might get some good brilliance, but you will have little dispersion with the almost flat 31.2 crown angle and the very shallow resulting crown.

From your description of the easily eye visible inclusion from the table, it sounds much more like an I1 would be the grade at a top tier lab such as GIA or AGS. Who knows what the real color is, with an EGL report you really have no idea.

If you allow them to, the people here can help you find a much better looking diamond and they will not have to lie to you about this being a very well cut diamond when in fact, it is not even close to being well cut. Your sales rep should either get an education so that he knows what garbage he is spouting, or he knows and only cares about his commission. I am not sure which is worse, an ignorant jeweler or a lieing jeweler, both will help you get a bad stone, but at least one knows he is doing so while not caring at the same time, so I choose the ignorant jeweler as the lessor of two evils, but can not recommend either.

You have not, so far, done well, in my opinion. You can do much better.

Sorry to be so blunt, but I am exhausted and hearing the report that the diamond was a good one and that the ones on his own site are from Israel and thus not good is beyond my tolerance for stupidity. The cutters in Israel cut good and bad stones, just like the cutters from any location. The trick is to distance yourself from those who cut junk for the unsuspecting and deal with those who cut for a beautiful result.

At this point you should no longer be unsuspecting.

Wink
 
In my HO I think you should return this right away. First we prefer to see newbies stick to GIA 3x or AGS o ...EGL USA is looser than the two premier labs. so what Egl says is Si2 is probably I1 which makes it easier to see and have more inclusions. Also if you wish to have a sparkly, Brilliant stone you should stay with Table no larger than 58, crown angle should be around 34.....

The polish and symmetry of this stone are also no excellent so overall move on and give this stone back.


Measurements 5.8 x 5.76 x 3.38 mm
Table 62%
Depth 58.4%
Crown Height 11.6%
Crown Angle 31.2°
Pavilion Depth 42.7%
Pavilion Angle 40.7°
 
I don't actually have the stone, yet. I put the order to have it placed in a ring, but it's sounding like I should cancel that on Monday.

This particular store seems to do all of their grading via EGL. Should I just avoid then, or ask if they have GIA reports?

As for bluntness, that's fine. I'd rather the "No, you did bad," so I can cancel and not get charged (hopefully) prior to spending the money.
 
am0n|1399169924|3665815 said:
I don't actually have the stone, yet. I put the order to have it placed in a ring, but it's sounding like I should cancel that on Monday.

This particular store seems to do all of their grading via EGL. Should I just avoid then, or ask if they have GIA reports?

As for bluntness, that's fine. I'd rather the "No, you did bad," so I can cancel and not get charged (hopefully) prior to spending the money.
Click to expand...


Yes... contact them and cancel your order. Try tomorrow and if not first thing Monday.


What is your max budget for the actual diamond itself? (minus the setting)
 
They aren't open Sunday, so I'll have to call Monday. I noticed on the receipt there was no refund for "Special Orders," which this ring was, I guess. However, I wasn't informed of this prior to putting the down payment (I asked what the return policy was and told I had 14 days to make changes), so hopefully they don't try to stiff me with the down payment.

I was hoping to stay under $4,000 for the total ring (which is one reason I was set off, as the total ended up being about $4,800). So, was hoping to be in the ballpark of no more than $2,000 for the diamond, as I like Platinum and that seems to bump the cost a bit for the setting.
 
HI, am0n,

I'm sorry for your "baptism by fire". There is a wealth of information here on PriceScope, so have some fun checking out what's stashed under the Knowledge, Tools, Articles and Resources tabs at the top of your screen.

For right now, here's the explanation for a major aspect of your interaction with the woman at Barmakian. Barmakian's web site indicates an inventory of nearly 30,000 stones. But Barmakian really does not have anywhere close to that many in their hands-on inventory. Rather, what you see on their web site is a "virtual" inventory, like what you'll see as on the web sites of most diamond vendors, both brick-and-mortar ones & retailers who do only e-commerce.

It's in her/her employer's purely self-serving interest to sell customers on what Barmakian actually has invested in, the diamonds they have purchased for their for-real inventory, rather than order in diamonds from the cyberspace inventory. In this respect, it's no different from the usual retail operations in other fields. Your local Coach store employee isn't going to volunteer to order in a Cole Haan bag, even though a particular Cole Haan bag meets exactly the description of what you've told her you are looking for. But as you've seen first-hand, there can be more shenanigans in diamond retailing than at handbag counters.

But yes, avoid stones that don't have AGS or GIA lab reports. Given what you've said, I wouldn't return to Barmakian (except to make the return & get a refund). There are "real life" diamond-jewelry merchants who are more reliable, trustworthy, than the stereotypical car salesmen. If you're not ready to dive into online shopping (and you may never be), you might stop by Homsy's diamond showroom in the Jewelry Building on Washington Street in downtown Boston. It's much less upscale than Barmakian, but all of the diamonds they will show you will have GIAl lab reports.
http://www.homsyjewelers.com/locations.php
 
I don't think I am necessary averse to online. Most seem to have generous return policies, although I do not own a loupe to even inspect it when it gets here, any way. I was originally looking at d.nea for synthetic stones, but opted for a B&M so I could see it and better 'service.' Not so sure I am happy with how I was served. Mind you, I am still a lot more ignorant to this than I'd like to be, but I guess I made a foolish assumption about honesty.

Unfortunately, getting into downtown Boston is a literal pain in the neck. I had checked out TC jewelers quickly in Arlington, but don't really know much about them. Perhaps it makes sense to give them a call and ask about the grading of their diamonds. Besides this website, are there any recommendations for good online vendors (or anyone else have any suggestions for B&M stores near Boston?)?
 
Geez, I don't know why you aren't eager to drive into downtown Boston, it's always so fun! :lol:

I have friends and family in the western & northern suburbs, if you'd like me to ask them for suggestions.

MA law requires retailers to "clearly and conspicuously disclose to a buyer, prior to the consummation of a transaction, the exact nature and extent of the seller's refund, return, or cancellation policy." Since it doesn't sound as if that happened here (printing the policy on the receipt isn't good enough), if Barmakian gives you a hassle, you can sweetly remind them their failure to do so is an unfair-deceptive trade practice under Commonwealth regulations (940 CMR 3.13 to be precise). And although I'm really hoping you don't need it, here's the toll-free number for the Consumer Affairs division of the AG's Office:
888-283-3757
 
Here's some more knowledge:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. And GIA Ex is not enough.
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. 2 and under is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.
So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. James Allen and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all of that. Stick to AGS0 stones as they have done all the cut and light performance evaluations for you. And then all you need to do is pick your preferred color and clarity.
 
Also you DO NOT NEED A D (and you probably didn't have one with that EGL stone anyway.

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

_327.png

So YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. It's the juxtoposition that makes the slight tint of an H obvious in that case. But when you wear it on your hands you will wear it alone, or next to diamonds close to it in color. So you can easily go down to H. And F and H and even I are STILL white.

I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.


ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants.
 
Did you pay by credit card? You may have protection through them if the shop refuses to play ball and refund you?
 
MollyMalone|1399175264|3665854 said:
Geez, I don't know why you aren't eager to drive into downtown Boston, it's always so fun! :lol:

I have friends and family in the western & northern suburbs, if you'd like me to ask them for suggestions.

MA law requires retailers to "clearly and conspicuously disclose to a buyer, prior to the consummation of a transaction, the exact nature and extent of the seller's refund, return, or cancellation policy." Since it doesn't sound as if that happened here (printing the policy on the receipt isn't good enough), if Barmakian gives you a hassle, you can sweetly remind them their failure to do so is an unfair-deceptive trade practice under Commonwealth regulations (940 CMR 3.13 to be precise). And although I'm really hoping you don't need it, here's the toll-free number for the Consumer Affairs division of the AG's Office:
888-283-3757
Click to expand...

I'll keep that in mind if they give me any hassle, because apparently what I was told may not align with how they operate. If your friends/relatives have any suggestions, I'd be open to them.

@Gypsy Thanks for the information. I'll keep all of that in mind.

OoohShiny|1399196972|3665926 said:
Did you pay by credit card? You may have protection through them if the shop refuses to play ball and refund you?
Click to expand...

I pay for everything with credit card, for just this reason. I do not like to rely on the CC company, though. I'd rather work it out with the retailer first.

Besides WF and James Allen, what other online vendors would people suggest? WF seems to require an approved account, so I haven't been able to browse their stock. James Allen seems to have GIA and AGS stones. Do they also have idealscope images for the GIA stones? I only see them for AGS stones. So far, seems like I am not going to be able to get a 0.7 ct. unless I expand my diamond budget to $3,000.
 
Website isn't letting me edit my last post.

How does one ensure that if you buy a diamond elsewhere and take it to a Jeweler for the setting, that they don't give you a different gem in its place?
 
am0n|1399212091|3665987 said:
Website isn't letting me edit my last post.

How does one ensure that if you buy a diamond elsewhere and take it to a Jeweler for the setting, that they don't give you a different gem in its place?
Click to expand...


Buy a diamond with a inscription on the girdle... Or have it appraised before and after. Finding a very reputable jeweler to do it is a good idea.

On that note, getting GOG, WF, JA to set the diamond your buy from them is the easiest and probably safest bet. That way its insured if anything happens.. All three are very highly regarded on here and wouldn't swap out the diamond you purchased.
 
Stive85|1399214968|3665995 said:
am0n|1399212091|3665987 said:
Website isn't letting me edit my last post.

How does one ensure that if you buy a diamond elsewhere and take it to a Jeweler for the setting, that they don't give you a different gem in its place?
Click to expand...


Buy a diamond with a inscription on the girdle... Or have it appraised before and after. Finding a very reputable jeweler to do it is a good idea.

On that note, getting GOG, WF, JA to set the diamond your buy from them is the easiest and probably safest bet. That way its insured if anything happens.. All three are very highly regarded on here and wouldn't swap out the diamond you purchased.
Click to expand...

None of those have a local facility to me, so I am assuming I'd just be relying on them basically making it based on website photos? And they have good return policies, even on rings?
 
am0n|1399216414|3666008 said:
Stive85|1399214968|3665995 said:
am0n|1399212091|3665987 said:
Website isn't letting me edit my last post.

How does one ensure that if you buy a diamond elsewhere and take it to a Jeweler for the setting, that they don't give you a different gem in its place?
Click to expand...


Buy a diamond with a inscription on the girdle... Or have it appraised before and after. Finding a very reputable jeweler to do it is a good idea.

On that note, getting GOG, WF, JA to set the diamond your buy from them is the easiest and probably safest bet. That way its insured if anything happens.. All three are very highly regarded on here and wouldn't swap out the diamond you purchased.
Click to expand...

None of those have a local facility to me, so I am assuming I'd just be relying on them basically making it based on website photos? And they have good return policies, even on rings?
Click to expand...

The way I recommend to my clients is that they ask to look at the diamond under a microscope at the store that is setting their diamond and draw a diagram. Make sure that the jeweler looks at it to and let them know that you will be wanting to look at it again after it is set to see that there is no damage to the diamond.

In this manner, you will always be comfortable when you look at the diamond and it has the same familiar inclusions in it that it had when you left it. It also lets the jeweler know that you will know if the diamond is damaged or switched. Having an inscription is nice, but often it will be partially or fully obstructed by the mounting, especially if you follow the advice of many jewelers and secure your diamond in a six prong head.

As for settings. Most of us vendors here use a combination of looking at photos and CAD (computer assisted design) to make sure that you are going to be satisfied with anything that we make for you. Most jewelers will not take back a custom piece that was made to the specs that you have agreed upon prior to the making of the piece. You can always Google any vendor that you are thinking of using to see whether or not people are happy with the results that they got and whether or not any problems were properly addressed. That is one of the best powers of the Internet. The incompetent and the unwilling to own their mistakes will not long survive the public complaints that come from not doing the work properly, or failing to own it and fixing it if necessary.

Wink
 
In case there's any confusion: purchasing from an online vendor doesn't necessarily require a full custom mounting designed from the ground up. Good Old Gold's web site, for example, expressly lets prospective customers know that Stuller's products are available.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/settingSearch.php
Stuller is a to-the-trade, US manufacturer of a wide variety of mountings in all metals. I can't say that Stuller is on the cutting edge, design-wise, but they are a good and reliable value: reasonably priced, not flimsy or poorly finished. Unique Settings is another such to-the-trade-only manufacturer that many retailers (online and in "real life") can-will order from.
http://www.stuller.com/browse/mountings/wedding-and-engagement
https://www.uniquesettings.com/

The next step up would be to order from a vendor's own portfolio or one of the "designer" brand settings, which is what I'm guessing you initiated with Barmakian. For example, Vatché mountings are a possibility were you to purchase a diamond from Wink himself (forum policies prohibit him from appearing to promote his own business, High Performance Diamonds, so that's why I'm mentioning it).
http://www.highperformancediamonds.com/index.php?page=store-category-detail&category=30
In both situations, the ring is made for your order (and can often be customized to some extent, e.g., adding/removing pave), but it's a more streamlined process than a full custom project.

Return-refund policies for loose diamonds & for fully completed rings vary, but reputable online vendors' web sites won't leave you in the dark as to what their policies are.
 
Thanks. I'm not really looking for a custom ring. Picking something from a collection is fine. I do have in mind generally what I am looking for, though. Would the online retailers provide sketches of what the ring would look like with the selected diamond (I know Wink mentioned CAD drawings)?
 
am0n|1399224259|3666065 said:
Thanks. I'm not really looking for a custom ring. Picking something from a collection is fine. I do have in mind generally what I am looking for, though. Would the online retailers provide sketches of what the ring would look like with the selected diamond (I know Wink mentioned CAD drawings)?
Click to expand...

Most times a CAD is only done for a custom design, as they do cost the vendor either in time to do it themselves, or to the artist actually doing the work. Usually there will be pictures available of the rings as they were done for previous clients to show you.

Wink
 
Thanks again.

Back to cut. GIA doesn't have an Ideal as one of their grades, just Excellent. Is this worse than AGS Ideal? And Is an AGS0 with a AGS1 for Symmetry/Polish still a good stone? I'm trying to balance all of this with my budget, which seems that getting anything in the 0.7 ct. range is going to cost me closer to $2,600-$3,000 just for the stone (and this is an SI1 with a Color I).
 
P.S. re seeing photos before order: there is a treasure trove of pics posted here on PS -- although the internal Search engines leave something to be desired. As an example, check out this thread re Brian Gavin solitaire mountings; it's also useful because TC1987 tells you the most efficient way to retrieve PS'er pics:
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/brian-gavin-solitaires-help.194592/
 
Thanks. I was interested in a 3 stone ring, so I guess what question was more to get a feel for how large the side stones are compared to the center stone. In person, it looked like something around 0.6 ct to 0.7 ct was a reasonably good center stone size if the side stones are ~1/4 ct.

Edit: But I guess one way to bring the cost down would be to go with a solitaire instead of a 3 stone.

Edit: Going back to my question about GIA "Excellent." This diamond appears to be an Excellent across the board according to GIA, and scores like a 1.1 on the HCA thing. There are some noticeable inclusions in the picture, but zoomed out it might be okay. There is no ideal-scope image for it, but maybe they have one available if you request it?

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-311827

The fact that this isn't called "Ideal," does that make it a stone worth passing over?

This is another that is similar:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-288641

And here is an example of the other; AGS0 cut, but AGS1 Symmetry/Polish:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.70-carat-i-color-si1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-290688

Are all of these stones worth passing up? Remembering that even after $2,500 for the diamond I am pushing my boundary on budget ($4,000 was the original plan for the total ring, a 3 ring setting in platinum appears to be ~$2,500... which may also be asking too much).
 
am0n|1399225623|3666074 said:
Thanks again.

Back to cut. GIA doesn't have an Ideal as one of their grades, just Excellent. Is this worse than AGS Ideal? And Is an AGS0 with a AGS1 for Symmetry/Polish still a good stone? I'm trying to balance all of this with my budget, which seems that getting anything in the 0.7 ct. range is going to cost me closer to $2,600-$3,000 just for the stone (and this is an SI1 with a Color I).
Click to expand...

The AGS 0 metric is extremely tough. One facet that will not take a 0 polish will bring the entire diamond down to an AGS1 cut grade, even though the light performance is in fact still marked as a 0. As a result, many AGS1s are prettier than most GIA Xs, but we can not just say so without looking at each and every diamond individually. GIA took the path most traveled rather than doing scientific research on light return the way that AGSL did.

Still, although increasingly less and less these days of max weight retention, some GIA Excellent cuts will rival the best AGS0 cuts. The problem for the layman is, "Which ones???"

The answer is, "you have to look and figure it out, stone by stone, oh, and usually, IT IS NOT THE CHEAP ONES!"

Because the AGS0s are so hard to get, they trade at a 3 to 5% premium over GIAXXX.

Just remember, NO MATTER HOW GOOD IT LOOKS ON PAPER, you really need to be able to see and return any diamond that you think you are going to love. If you have to risk more than the postage and insurance to make this happen (plus the totally refundable deposit on the diamond of course) then you need to choose another vendor, which means you can not be using any of the NO RETURNS vendors on Ebay or elsewhere. This is also true of AGS0 cut diamonds, as your eye may not agree as to what is the most beautiful diamond.

Just my thoughts on a warm and beautiful Sunday afternoon, going out to play with the grand kids now...

Wink
 
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