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Fake GIA inscriptions

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yoshu

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
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Hi guys,

I''m considering buying a half carat diamond from a stall (as opposed to a reputed shop/online company). They have a GIA dossier with the GIA laser inscription seen on the diamond. I''ve heard of a big batch of diamonds having fake GIA numbers, but what about real GIA numbers placed on fake stones??

Any ideas or discussions please?
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Thanks
 
Anyone can buy laser inscribing equipment.
 
ok... well if there are pirate versions of everything everywhere, and diamonds are so ludicrous as a business, then it seems to me that there is a LOT more diamond faking than we can imagine??

23.gif
 
It is not hard to verify a diamond is real and matches the report.

First with the report number and the weight you can go on GIA's website to do a report check.

Next with a $10 loupe you can match the inclusions in the diamond to the inclusions plotted on the report.

Next you can verify the dimensions yourself if you are careful with a micrometer ($20 at Home Depot) or a calipers.
Be careful to not damage the culet (the point at the bottom).

Next you can take it to any jewelry store or pawn shop and use their diamond checker and scale.

You can mail it to GIA itself and they will verify it matches the report.

You can pay an appraiser to verify it.

Never buy from a seller without a money back guarantee.
Never buy from a seller you have not checked out.

But yes, many buyers are not informed and people DO get ripped off.
Stick around and read PS BEFORE buying any diamond.
 
ah that's very useful, thanks.

The problem is that I live in the UK..do you know of any place that can verify the diamond here? I don't think it's easy, safe or cheap to send to GIA in the States unless they have a UK service.

Also, when I put details into GIA report checker, it only gives me a dossier and not a full report that has an inclusions map. How do I get the full thing?

Thanks again
 
A dossier report will only have inscription, no inclusion plot.
 
GIA Dossier report is a cheaper report that does not include the inclusions plot.

I'd keep shopping.
 
Date: 10/5/2009 11:00:52 AM
Author: kenny
GIA Dossier report is a cheaper report that does not include the inclusions plot.


I''d keep shopping.
Click to expand...

I''m looking at Blue Nile''s diamonds too and they also don''t have a full report. Is it the case that smaller carat diamonds don''t have full reports automatically?? Should I not shop at Blue Nile??

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A full GIA report costs more than a Dossier.

I think sellers get order Dossier reports for lower-cost stones to keep the price down to remain competitive.
The smallest diamonds never have reports.

Bluenile is reputable but other vendors give you a better price and more info that helps you judge how good the diamond is.

There are a few PS vendors that are better IMHO than Bluenile.

Plus if there is ever an issue you can post your complaint here and the vendor will have to resolve it with the world watching.
That consumer protection feature of dealing with a Pricescope vendor is priceless.
The following Internet diamond vendors have representatives that post here.

Brian Gavin Diamonds
Whiteflash
Goodoldgold
James Allen
High Performance Diamonds
 
Blue Nile is apparently a UK site, so I was assuming that there will be no massive postage price from the States. Also, I was comparing prices for half carat diamonds and it seems that a BN one with an excellent HCA score is much cheaper than a similar stone from the listed sites.

So do you recommend going for the ones you listed as opposed to Blue Nile, given the fact that I have to have it shipped to the UK as well?
 
BN is actually US company and I believe most of the stones are shipped in from US.
 
I just Googled it and sure enough Bluenile also has a UK location, with prices listed in pounds.

Bluenile in UK

I'd also check their US website and see if the same diamond is listed cheaper enough to compensate for shipping and taxes.

Okay the diamond safari has begun.
A good HCA score (under 2) is one piece of the puzzle that is a well-cut diamond.

An Idealscope pic and ASET pic is next but Bluenile does not provide those.

Please tell us:
Depth %
Table %
Crown Angle
Pavilion Angle

With this some of our experts may be able to tell you more about how well cut your candidate is.
 
I looked at the UK and the US Bluenile sites and found the same diamond.

Listing from UK Bluenile site

Listing from US Bluenile site

It is a 0.51 carat G VS1.
It was graded by AGS and has report number 9815002 on both sites so it is the same diamond.

The price on the US site is $1,829.
The price on the UK site is 1,187 pounds.

Converting $1829 to pounds at today's exchange rate (0.630942) is 1154 pounds so it is 33 pounds more expensive in the UK.
I'd guess shipping from the US and tax would cost more than 33 pounds so it probably makes sense for you to buy from their UK site.
Of course this is a sample size of one so you may want to do more checking.

May I recommend you look for a Bluenile Signature stone with an AGS report and a cut grade of 0, aka ideal?
It is more likely to be well cut than GIA's top cut grade of excellent, which allows diamonds that are too deep.
 
Date: 10/5/2009 11:13:28 AM
Author: kenny
A full GIA report costs more than a Dossier.


I think sellers get order Dossier reports for lower-cost stones to keep the price down to remain competitive.

The smallest diamonds never have reports.


Bluenile is reputable but other vendors give you a better price and more info that helps you judge how good the diamond is.


There are a few PS vendors that are better IMHO than Bluenile.


Plus if there is ever an issue you can post your complaint here and the vendor will have to resolve it with the world watching.

That consumer protection feature of dealing with a Pricescope vendor is priceless.

The following Internet diamond vendors have representatives that post here.


Brian Gavin Diamonds

Whiteflash

Goodoldgold

James Allen

High Performance Diamonds
Click to expand...

Ditto Kenny.
And I'd add Todd from Nice Ice to the list.

Also, look under the Testimonials forum for consumer feedback on other vendors (Union Diamonds, Mark at ERD, Dimend Scaasi, Gary Dutton, etc.). There are many reliable vendors at all price points to choose from; you do not have to risk buying a possible "fake" in order to get a good price on a diamond.

ETA: Many of these vendors regularly do business with our friends in Canada and Europe, too.
 
VAT is not added to the price of the BN UK stones until checkout. So there will still be an import tax no matter which website you use.
 
Yes exactly, I was going to add that. I took a look at Blue Nile USA and it was a lot cheaper but customs tax would have been a bomb! Therefore, does anyone recommend any other UK sites?? 77 Diamonds sounds good, any experience from them??

Just for interest's sake, it was a (GIA) 0.45 G VS2 with an excellent HCA score for US$860 ish (GBP550)..ahhh its tempting just typing it!

I'll add some stones in this thread in an hour or so and let you experts provide an informed opinion! Thanks so much so far, this site has been a great learning experience!!
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Dr Indira Marchant is indeed highly regarded and is a super lady and true expert, she also sells Infinity hearts and arrows diamonds. I believe if you buy a diamond from the US and import to the UK, 15% VAT is payable plus 2.5% import duty. A friend purchased from BN recently and had to pay VAT and also import duty if I remember rightly, even though he purchased from the UK site, the diamond was still imported to the UK from the States.
 
Are you close to London? Indira Marchant from Best Diamonds may be able to help you.
link
 
LOL, Lorelei and Stone -- great minds think alike, I guess :)
 
Thanks for that contact, I''ve come across that name before on this forum!

Does she provide very competitive prices for diamonds? At this point, I''m looking at 77 Diamonds who seem to have some good prices (I''ve yet to research the stones individually) so far.

To place in perspective, does BestDiamonds give stone prices similar or cheaper than Blue Nile?
 
Date: 10/5/2009 10:11:55 AM
Author:yoshu
I've heard of a big batch of diamonds having fake GIA numbers...
Click to expand...
This must have slipped past me, as I have not heard of it. You're talking about diamonds laser inscribed with fake GIA numbers? Where did you hear about it? You wouldn't happen to have a link to the info, would you?





Date: 10/5/2009 10:11:55 AM
Author:yoshu
but what about real GIA numbers placed on fake stones??
Click to expand...
You're talking about real GIA numbers laser inscribed on fake diamonds (ie, cubic zirconia)?

I think the chances of this happening are slim, for the very reason that laser inscription machines are quite expensive. Last time I checked they were 30 grand and higher. Then you have to have trained personnel to operate it, etc. It seems like the exposure and risk factor would be a lot greater than most thieves would have a tolerance for.
 
For Richard above: http://tiny.cc/5rmyk
In that article, there''s a link to another site that has other examples of dubious diamond origins.
 
Thanks Yoshu.

For the record, that article is referring to one diamond submitted by an Australian jeweler, with a blogger additionally commenting that he heard "there is a company in Melbourne Australia doing these lasers, for a large publicly traded internet site".

I''d be curious if anyone else has information regarding this or similar deceptions (laser inscribing in particular).

Garry (Holloway), are you familiar with the Melbourne company referred to, or the "large publicly traded internet site"?
 
If I go to a vendor who has many diamonds with similar characteristics (all ''excellent'' cut), is it worth using the HCA analysis to screen?? So in other words, assuming all the diamonds I assess are ''excellent'' cut, does the HCA tool''s Excellent vs Good actually look very different??

Thanks
 
Yes.
 
Is it because within the ''excellent'' range, there is variation that might make well cut diamonds (in numbers) more/less brilliant (in real life)??

Secondly, is there a tool like the HCA that is offline or a program that does the same thing?
 
Date: 10/6/2009 5:57:18 PM
Author: yoshu
Is it because within the ''excellent'' range, there is variation that might make well cut diamonds (in numbers) more/less brilliant (in real life)??

Secondly, is there a tool like the HCA that is offline or a program that does the same thing?
Click to expand...
GIA Ex cut allows for some steeper pavilion angles for the corresponding crown angles than what is ideal for light reflection, this will lead to leakage of light through the pavilion making the stone look dull.

Nope, no offline tool. But the general guidelines are easy enough to follow.
 
So with GIA excellent cut and excellent HCA scores, would it make a visible difference if we took the idealscope/ASET image out and compared. Or will the stones be pretty much brilliant and shining as far as the naked eye can see??
 
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