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Fair price: 3.03 ct Kashmir Blue Sapphire?

kenny

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GIA and Gubelin reports indicate no treatment and Kashmir origin.
Vendor claims IF or VVS1 clarity.

I realize it's from the vendor with issues, but the stone itself appears to be for real.
I just have no clue whether price is fair.
I don't mind paying what something is worth; I do mind being gouged.

I've read this vendor's prices are "to the moon".
At least they publish them, instead of having secret pricing.

What is your gut reaction to the pricing for this real Kashmir?

http://www.thenaturalsapphirecompany.com/Sapphires/Blue/B2670/Cushion/stoneid=B2670

Picture 6.png
 

FrekeChild

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I really don't get your paranoia with the non-published prices. I doubt I will ever get it.

And I will never buy anything from NSC.

Also, I don't find that sapphire particularly impressive from the picture you posted...now I'm off to see the price...

ETA: No way in Hades. Maybe use it for some expensive stained glass...I do not deal well with windows, and I think you can do better. Probably with people who don't PUBLISH PRICES.
 

VapidLapid

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It may be Kashmir, but it is not a fine example of what Kashmir is admired for. Though it is clean and all it is weak in saturation and too clean to have that smouldering glow. I have seen Madagascan sapphires far more kashmiri for far less. If this stone were $38,629.35 I would think it was a little high, which I too would have to be to buy it. $75,000.00? I can't get that high even with ether. (yes I have tried ether in my gonzo days)





spellink!
 

kenny

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FrekeChild|1303345372|2901403 said:
I really don't get your paranoia with the non-published prices. I doubt I will ever get it.

And I will never buy anything from NSC.

Also, I don't find that sapphire particularly impressive from the picture you posted...now I'm off to see the price...

ETA: No way in Hades. Maybe use it for some expensive stained glass...I do not deal well with windows, and I think you can do better. Probably with people who don't PUBLISH PRICES.
So your familiarity with Kashmir pricing tells you this is overpriced?
 

kenny

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VapidLapid|1303345672|2901409 said:
It may be Kashmir, but it is not a fine example of what Kashmir is admired for. Though it is clean and all it is weak in saturation and too clean to have that smouldering glow. I have seen Madagascan sapphires far more kashmiri for far less. If this stone were $38,629.35 I would think it was a little high, which I too would have to be to buy it. $75,000.00? I can't get that high even with ether. (yes I have tried ether in my gonzo days)
spellink!
Thanks VL.
 

T L

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VapidLapid|1303345672|2901409 said:
It may be Kashmir, but it is not a fine example of what Kashmir is admired for. Though it is clean and all it is weak in saturation and too clean to have that smouldering glow. I have seen Madagascan sapphires far more kashmiri for far less. If this stone were $38,629.35 I would think it was a little high, which I too would have to be to buy it. $75,000.00? I can't get that high even with ether. (yes I have tried ether in my gonzo days)





spellink!
I agree with this, and with what Freke said. I think just because a sapphire has an origin attributed to it, doesn't mean it's the cream of the crop. Also, if you are planning to buy the best, I would want a top of the line AGL report (which NSC refuses to deal with) indicating in writing the overall quality of the stone in regards to tone, saturation and clarity in scientific terms, so that you know that based on the quality of sapphires from the world, you are buying a stone that's really worth that much. It's like when you buy an FCD, you want that GIA report to indicate the color in scientific terms, and other aspects. AGL is to colored gems as GIA is to FCD's. ;))
 

FrekeChild

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kenny|1303345703|2901411 said:
FrekeChild|1303345372|2901403 said:
I really don't get your paranoia with the non-published prices. I doubt I will ever get it.

And I will never buy anything from NSC.

Also, I don't find that sapphire particularly impressive from the picture you posted...now I'm off to see the price...

ETA: No way in Hades. Maybe use it for some expensive stained glass...I do not deal well with windows, and I think you can do better. Probably with people who don't PUBLISH PRICES.
So your familiarity with Kashmir pricing tells you this is overpriced?
My familiarity with what a Kashmir looks like. That does not look like a fine Kashmir to me. It should be silky and glow. I wish cherry picked was still around...

I like these more, but still not Kashmir...
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemdetail&inventory_number=19028
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemdetail&inventory_number=17711

TL better get here quick...ETA: LOL!
 

T L

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FrekeChild|1303346350|2901432 said:
kenny|1303345703|2901411 said:
FrekeChild|1303345372|2901403 said:
I really don't get your paranoia with the non-published prices. I doubt I will ever get it.

And I will never buy anything from NSC.

Also, I don't find that sapphire particularly impressive from the picture you posted...now I'm off to see the price...

ETA: No way in Hades. Maybe use it for some expensive stained glass...I do not deal well with windows, and I think you can do better. Probably with people who don't PUBLISH PRICES.
So your familiarity with Kashmir pricing tells you this is overpriced?
My familiarity with what a Kashmir looks like. That does not look like a fine Kashmir to me. It should be silky and glow. I wish cherry picked was still around...

I like these more, but still not Kashmir...
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemdetail&inventory_number=19028
http://www.palagems.com/php/db_search.php?action=gemdetail&inventory_number=17711

TL better get here quick...
Yes, those are more Kashmir color Freke, and the top link shows it better. Tino Hammid has taken some photos of fine Kashmir sapphires too. The NSC stone, if the photo is accurate, lacks the saturation and glow of the finest Kashmir material. However, fine Kashmir sapphires of three carats can set you back $100K/ct last I checked (with Kashmir origin). The above NSC sapphire does not look exceptional though.

Like with fine Burmese rubies, Muzo Colombian emeralds and Brazilian Paraiba tourmaline, fine Kashmir sapphires need to be seen in person to be truly appreciated.

Honestly Kenny, right now is probably the worst time to buy a sapphire as many dealers are taking advantage of the famous Diana ring and royal wedding to jack up prices. NSC is a prime example.

kashmirtinohammid.jpg
 

kenny

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Thanks all.

Excellent advice here. :appl:
 

T L

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I viewed the video of that stone, and maybe it's just me, but you can find nice Madagascar sapphires that quality for much much MUCH less. It is a pretty stone, but by no means exceptional, and should not be worth that much per carat IMHO. Look into Burmese sapphires as well, as they are quite beautiful in top quality.
 

Gailey

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I think you and that stone would be highly suited.
 

ooo~Shiney!

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this one, listed as true Kashmir is a pretty stone I think, Kenny.
or this one, a "Kashmir" trillion.... I love it ! :love:

1133.1.jpg

1080.1.jpg
 

kenny

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MontageCreations|1303351079|2901537 said:
for their asking price I would expect superlative cutting, and that is not even close...

Rough girdle (nice closeup of their Laser Etching)
Asymmetric shape
"32 degree" pavillion angles, um err maybe they measured that at the culet
interference figures from the crown suggest a final polish of about 3-4000 grit
Uneven tiers for opposing pairs, in both the crown and pavillion
Suspicious inclusion seen from photo through the table and it's reflection

I could go on and on
Thanks MT?
Are you in the trade?
 

MontageCreations

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kenny said:
MontageCreations|1303351079|2901537 said:
**edited by moderator. trade members may not comment on the merchandise of other vendors
Thanks MT?
Are you in the trade?
MT - think someone else uses that abbreviation, and someone else has MC, so just call me MoCre, like ocre ;-)
Yes, a cutter and custom jeweler for 36+ years. Not retired, just tired :lol:
 

Ella

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Just a reminder that we have trade specific policies that prohibit trade members from discussing or commenting on the merchandise of other vendors.
 

Michael_E

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Ella|1303357058|2901627 said:
Just a reminder that we have trade specific policies that prohibit trade members from discussing or commenting on the merchandise of other vendors.
Well my comment is to Kenny and not about this specific stone....why on earth would you ask a question like this based on one picture? Pictures are pretty, but you really can't make the sort of judgement of worth based on them, especially at high price levels. You've really got to see a stone in person to make the sort of call that you're asking about...everything else is just empty conjecture based on other pictures and their qualities...none of which will be close enough to reality to make price assessments.
 

kenny

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The offending vendor post has been entirely deleted by admin.

In it the vendor mentioned he had even better stones for sale for a much lower price.
It was not you two other guys.
 

kelpie

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Kenny, have you looked at kashmirblue.com? Hopefully they are not the misbehaving vendor. Someday I plan to get a tiny but otherwise perfect sapphire from them. For some reason I can't get their site to open right now but I'm in Africa and I often have that problem so maybe it'll work for you.
 

iLander

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Hi Kenny! :wavey:

This will at least give you an idea of what you are looking for; http://www.rwwise.com/products/id|1707 It's sold, but if you look at the backside (some body knows the technical term for the back, but I can't recall) you can see the oddly cloudy look you are looking for.

Richard doesn't publish prices because I think he is paranoid about theft. TMI on the internet, I guess. But like most vendors, he has a lot in the safe that he doesn't put on the site. He has some gem books that he has written and there are plenty of articles on his site.

Or you could try Sotheby's they have a private jewelry division, that will sell stuff outside of the auction setting. Usually it's rich ladies who are too embarrassed to have their friends see their pieces at auction. Christie's I think has the same type of thing.

Or you could commission one of our guys, who goes overseas for gem buying, to find you a stone. I think Gene at Precision Gem would be able to do this for you. Then you could submit it to GIA and Gubelin yourself.

As far as Kashmir, I like some of the Winza sapphires better myself. They have a sharp, distinct color though, not the hazy Kashmir glow.

Or wait until February, then got to the Tucson show. I would email all the cutters on here and ask them what they have, and if they have nothing, I would ask them for recommendations of dealers. That place is like a candy store, Kenny. You would come out with tons of goodies! :love:

But why a sapphire? If I were looking for a unique, HTF stone, I would go for an untreated Burma ruby. :naughty: Excellent rubies, that are truly red are MUCH harder to find than sapphires, I think.

Oh, and to answer your question: that is the most overpriced sapphire I have ever seen. :bigsmile:
 

chrono

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I agree wholeheartedly with the posts above; while the NSC sapphire might be of Kashmir origin, it doesn’t appear to have the famed glow or the needed saturation which right away dismisses the $75K price tag for me. Of course, at certain price points, it becomes more critical to view the stone in person. If I had the funds for a top class Kashmir blue sapphire, obviously I’d rather purchase from any vendor other than NSC as well. I agree that with the upcoming British wedding, prices for blue sapphires will be up and their availability will go down. In short, not a good time to purchase. Also, if spending this much money, a full AGL prestige report with colour grading is a must for me.
 

T L

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I have heard good things about this company, but I cannot vouch for their reputation. They do use AGL though.

kashmirblue.com.
 

LD

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Not only are the ones posted so far (with the exception of the Tino Hammid photo) not exceptional, they are also just a tad too dark. This will affect most stones and how they perform. Look for something slightly lighter (like the Tino Hammid photo).

I wouldn't buy from NSC if they were the last sapphire vendor on earth due to their disgusting disregard of customers. As for the price of that sapphire? :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

brandy_z28

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LovingDiamonds|1303488915|2902671 said:
I wouldn't buy from NSC if they were the last sapphire vendor on earth due to their disgusting disregard of customers. As for the price of that sapphire? :lol: :lol: :lol:
x2!

I personally prefer the color and silky appearance of these two madagascan sapphires to the NSC 'kashmir'. :D

spectral-Lg-SapphireBlueEmCut1_20ct.jpg

spectral-Lg-SapphireBlueOval1_21ct.jpg
 

iLander

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This is one of the nicest sapphires that I've seen on here;

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-blue-sapphire-ring.157247/?hilit=homer%20sapphire']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/my-blue-sapphire-ring.157247/?hilit=homer%20sapphire[/URL]

It was purchased for the poster by Richard Wise. The color is amazing.

If you don't need something ginourmous, I like the one in the upper left corner from Gemfix. Reasonable for untreated and certified IMHO;

http://www.gemfix.com/sapphire_blue.html
 
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