Faintly brownish black in appearance diamond

[Noreen]

Is a large "faintly brownish black in appearance" diamond valuable as a fancy color?


How valuable is a 50ct+ diamond like this worth?

Thanks

 

[HopeDream]

Hi Noreen,

Are you describing a black diamond with a brownish hue? Or a clear diamond with a brownish color?
Who was the color graded by? ( I don''t think brownish black is a fancy color grade recognized by GIA)

In this thread https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/questions-about-black-diamonds.110914/ Lovingdiamonds mentioned that she purchased a 4.1 ct black diamond for $300 - so you might be looking at a little over $73/carat (maybe......if it''s an attractive stone).

Is the diamond attractive looking? Unless it''s apealing to the eye it''s probably not worth more than what you could sell it for as an industrial abrasive.

"faintly" is the very weakest of the fancy color grades and so would offer the lowest price premium to your stone.

Please post pictures!

 

[Noreen]

Good questions! It’s a round brilliant that we are starting to analyze.

This is a significant stone, over 60 carets, so anything under 20 carets as a comparison is not relevant. A stone like this is typically used as an investment until it''s time to “get the hell out of dodge”.

We are starting to research a resell for a client. Although we have allot of experience with both regular and coloured stones we are concerned with the "faintly brownish black in appearance" description. It was “inspected” by EGL which is typical of large South African stones where you’re limiting movement. This is why I posted this to pricescope to get some feedback.

 

[HopeDream]

Hmm this sounds like an interesting stone Noreen!

From other threads on this board I''ve read that EGL grading isn''t always consistant with grading by GIA or AGS so it would probably be advisable to have the stone re-evaluated by one of these more stringent labs. I''m guessing even a slight difference in color or clarity grade could make a huge difference in the stone''s value.

more on lab grading differences in this thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-usa-has-its-grading-improved.114698/

I also recommend getting the stone appraised by an independant appraiser he or she will be able to tell you what that type of stone is typicaly valued at. Finding a buyer for it in this economy though.... good luck! It can be very hard to find a buyer for such a large rock.

 

[HopeDream]

I''m still curious as to what your diamond looks like.

Is is closer to A or B in terms of color? ( as I understand from your prior post it is a round brilliant shape)

 

[Lorelei]

Hi Noreen,

This sounds like a more unusual sort of stone so what I would suggest is look at the appraiser's list and maybe speak to a couple to see if they have experience of this type of diamond so they could advise you and maybe perform an appraisal. Here is the appraiser tool for you.

One of the experts/ appraisers here might have better advice for you, hold on as it is quiet here on weekends, but one of them might log in and be able to help.

 

[Noreen]

I should have more details in a few days. Thank you for all your responses.

So, of the stones in your picture, if they were both the same weight how would they value?

In large stones, when does the "brown" start to impact value? What moves them into industrial grade?

Thanks

 

[Noreen]

faintly brownish black in appearance 50+ ct.

Any thoughts or comments?

 

[yssie]

An appraiser could tell you more.




I doubt "not much", which was my first answer, is remotely helpful!!

 

[Rockdiamond]

HI all!
In my experience, if a diamond is black such as the one posted by Noreen, in her last post, it''s practically a given that it''s irradiated.

EGL labs are all over the world- and some have very bad reputations- even so it seems likely that any of them would pick up radiation treated stones.
Noreen- is that a picture of the actual diamond?

 

[Noreen]

Yes, these are actual pictures of the diamond.

We believe it has not been irradiated or treated. It has been tested for treatments and determined to be a natural stone and color.

Nice points Rockdiamond.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/22/2010 12:20:36 PM
Author: Noreen
faintly brownish black in appearance 50+ ct.

Any thoughts or comments?

how much $$$''s ?

 

[HopeDream]

If it''s natural (and this is a big if - My gut instinct is to agree with Rockdiamond on this one), It has visible flaws which will decrease its value significantly.

I was looking for a comparable black diamond : the 67.50 ct. antique-cushion-cut Black Orlov sold for $350,000 at Christie''s New York auction house Oct. 11, 2006 (keep in mind that this is a natural black diamond with a consistantly smooth polish, a well documented royal history and rumours of a curse) one of the most valuable black diamonds in the world!

and here is an enhanced 36.3 ct black diamond form Ebay for $10k (or make an offer). I''m not sure it will sell at that price.

As you can see the value of black diamond varies wildly - definately get it appraised.

good luck!

 

[Rockdiamond]

On a stone of this importance the only testing that is going to be considered "conclusive" by the trade is a GIA report stating it''s natural.
The likelihood of that is minuscule- but hey, you never know!


Funny thing- I saw a 50ct black last year....yes, that one was irradiated.

 

[Noreen]

Yes, I know about GIA & Gubelin lab reports, EGL vs. AGS/GIA, independent specialist appraisal and the importance of the diamond’s history/providence.

So if it had a GIA report stating it was natural and not treated, what would your opinion be of the “"faintly brownish black in appearance"” color grade and the stones value. I was told by a large reputable European color stone dealer that the “faintly brownish” gives it more life and therefore may add to the value.

Any opinion on value?

I have been researching large black diamonds, their story and their sales history. Please let me know of any in the 40-80 caret range or any good sources you know of.

Some famous and interesting black diamonds:
“The Amsterdam”, a black pear shape 33.74 carat black diamond.
“The Korloff Noir” an 88-carat, round-cut, black diamond.

Thanks

 

[Rockdiamond]

All due respect, but until we can see a GIA report, it seems useless to speculate.

 

[denverappraiser]

Date: 1/17/2010 1:51:59 AM
Author: Noreen

Good questions! It’s a round brilliant that we are starting to analyze.

This is a significant stone, over 60 carets, so anything under 20 carets as a comparison is not relevant. A stone like this is typically used as an investment until it's time to “get the hell out of dodge”.

We are starting to research a resell for a client. Although we have allot of experience with both regular and coloured stones we are concerned with the 'faintly brownish black in appearance' description. It was “inspected” by EGL which is typical of large South African stones where you’re limiting movement. This is why I posted this to pricescope to get some feedback.

You’re making some BIG assumptions here. If it’s part of the estate of Elvis Presley or Jackie Onassis then it’s worth big bucks. Like the issue of proving natural origin, it’s all in the paperwork. That said, a properly documented large black is a prime example of an item to submit for auction. They don’t come up very often and the Orlov is not a very good comp to be using for the same reason that Jackie’s pearls don’t make for very good comps on pearls. To call that a special case is an understatement. Properly documented I would expect such a thing to go for between $20k - $200k. Without proper paperwork I would expect it to go for a small number of thousands, if that. Given your confidence in the natural origin, if that’s not an incentive to immediately submit it to GIA I don’t know what is.

Based purely on your picture, I’m not even convinced it’s a diamond, much less a discussion of the origin of color but I'll take your word for it for purposes of this discussion. You mentioned an inspection by EGL, presumably EGL-USA, but you put ‘inspected’ in quotes. Can you explain what you mean by this? Even better, can you scan and post their report?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

 

[T L]

Date: 1/25/2010 1:55:59 PM
Author: denverappraiser

You’re making some BIG assumptions here. If it’s part of the estate of Elvis Presley or Jackie Onassis then it’s worth big bucks. Like the issue of proving natural origin, it’s all in the paperwork. That said, a properly documented large black is a prime example of an item to submit for auction. They don’t come up very often and the Orlov is not a very good comp to be using for the same reason that Jackie’s pearls don’t make for very good comps on pearls. To call that a special case is an understatement. Properly documented I would expect such a thing to go for between $20k - $200k. Without proper paperwork I would expect it to go for a small number of thousands, if that (assuming it''s a diamond of course). If that’s not an incentive to immediately submit it to GIA I don’t know what is.

Based purely on your picture, I’m not even convinced it’s a diamond, much less a discussion of the origin of color but I''ll take your word for it for purposes of this discussion. You mentioned an inspection by EGL, presumably EGL-USA, but you put ‘inspected’ in quotes. Can you explain what you mean by this? Even better, can you scan and post their report?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver

I know, I see some pitting and facet abrasion on that stone, which to me, is not indicative of faceted crystalized carbon. I would expect a much smoother surface and higher polish.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Actually, the large irradiated blacks I''ve seen had a lot of pitting that looked a lot like the photo...of course it''s hard to say anything conclusive.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 1/25/2010 2:20:36 PM
Author: Rockdiamond
Actually, the large irradiated blacks I''ve seen had a lot of pitting that looked a lot like the photo...of course it''s hard to say anything conclusive.

Any idea why?

 

[Noreen]

It is a diamond, we tested it and we also have the EGL report – I know we need GIA.

Black diamonds are different from conventional diamonds in respect of origin, structure, composition, and also distribution. They are polycrystalline, made up of large numbers of minute crystals stuck together and have no cleavage planes. They are porous, can have gases inside and are harder than conventional diamonds. They are VERY difficult to cut and polish. For example the Korloff Noir diamond original rough is said to have weighed 421 carats, but the final product was only 88 carats. That’s an enormous loss of 333 carats. Such losses are quite common in black diamonds. It takes extreme skill and even more luck to polish these stones.

The chips on the girdle and their position are strange; I would like to know how they occurred; however everything else is typical of black diamonds. We believe this stone was not well cared for, and traveled in someone’s pocket for many years, maybe along with his keys and loose change.

We don't own the diamond, so I can't post the cert.

Totally agree with the excellent "Jackie Onassis" analogy. Thanks!

I do not know the history of the stone but we are trying to find out as I suspect it MAY be colorful.

Much of what I posted here is what I have heard from others while discussing this stone (some from the owner), so not exactly my opinion, but good for getting feedback. We have already been offered substantially more than $70K; however I am only trying to research, get feedback, and get opinions on approximate value.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/27/2010 1:04:50 PM
Author: Noreen


The chips on the girdle and their position are strange; I would like to know how they occurred; however everything else is typical of black diamonds. We believe this stone was not well cared for, and traveled in someone’s pocket for many years, maybe along with his keys and loose change.

We don''t own the diamond, so I can''t post the cert.

Totally agree with the excellent ''Jackie Onassis'' analogy. Thanks!

I do not know the history of the stone but we are trying to find out as I suspect it MAY be colorful.

Much of what I posted here is what I have heard from others while discussing this stone (some from the owner), so not exactly my opinion, but good for getting feedback. We have already been offered substantially more than $70K; however I am only trying to research, get feedback, and get opinions on approximate value.

tell him/her to lay the CASH on table

money talks,B.S. walks.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 1/27/2010 6:36:49 PM
Author: Dancing Fire

Date: 1/27/2010 1:04:50 PM
Author: Noreen



The chips on the girdle and their position are strange; I would like to know how they occurred; however everything else is typical of black diamonds. We believe this stone was not well cared for, and traveled in someone’s pocket for many years, maybe along with his keys and loose change.

We don''t own the diamond, so I can''t post the cert.

Totally agree with the excellent ''Jackie Onassis'' analogy. Thanks!

I do not know the history of the stone but we are trying to find out as I suspect it MAY be colorful.

Much of what I posted here is what I have heard from others while discussing this stone (some from the owner), so not exactly my opinion, but good for getting feedback. We have already been offered substantially more than $70K; however I am only trying to research, get feedback, and get opinions on approximate value.

tell him/her to lay the CASH on table

money talks,B.S. walks.

No doubt! Hopefully the offer isn''t from a CL ad! hehehe (I''m confused why if you don''t own the diamond, you''re already offering it for sale.)

 

[Noreen]

We are the broker on this deal.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Well, as was posted above. . .there is a 36 ct stone on eBay for $9,999. It has the similar pitting.

Why not get the stone appraised? If you have a buyer looking to spend $70K, a couple hundred dollar appraisal is a drop in the bucket.

 

[Dreamer_D]

Noreen, are you in the diamond business/industry? If so, you need to state this in your byline so that readers are aware of your affiliation.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 1/27/2010 11:12:02 PM
Author: Noreen
We are the broker on this deal.

yeah, you'll be "BROKER" alright when this whole deal go sour.

 

[Noreen]

My family is in the business, has been for a few generations. I help out when I’m not in college.

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

Looking at the pics, they seem typical to me for a black diamond.

And the faintly brownish hue could well indicate that it is an untreated one.

Still, on the wholesale-level, this does not make for a huge value. I have no idea on the retail-level however.

Live long,