Expert Help Needed is this Stone a Transitional Cut Diamond?

[Cosmetologist]

Definitely an early ideal cut/American cut IMO. The crown and depth and paviolion are all very similar to an MRB, but the lower halves are very short and the table a little smaller, plus the bruted/frosted girdle and the small/medium culet. When I was starting my three-stone reset, I was looking for diamonds of this make -- the same make as my 1.89ct -- for side stones. I could not locate any and was told it was a needle in a haystack situation. So again, a very rare make. Color looks more tinted than an L, but that could just be the lighting. It doesn't much matter, though. With these smaller old cuts, cut is King, and it sounds like you bought on the secondary market anyway.

Some would also call this make a European cut. *shrug* it doesn't matter what you call it though.

Here are a bunch of PS diamonds on this make:


Nice find! What will you do with it?

Thank-You for all the info it's such an interesting topic,

The Pics are amazing although my favourite is yours - The Chunkier Arrows are just irresistible What a Treasure!!

Yes it does look quite tinted side on, I did take the photos under Warm Spotlights too I'm not overly sensitive to colour although I don't think I'd go past Q/R - I do like the Pastel Shades that I see in the Stone but I'm unsure if that's because of the Lower Colour Bracket or Facet Structure... I'm unsure what to do I was thinking of a Ring, A Right Hand Ring - Yellow Gold, I was thinking of perhaps some tapered Baguettes flanking it, I'd love to hear your suggestions, I think you have amazing taste much better than mine!

My last question did I grab it for a Good Price I paid £500 or $600, It's hard to find good price comparisons in the UK for similar stones, I used to order from the States quite a bit but the £ is sooo weak at the min so when you pay the Duty & Tax here you aren't making much of a difference now saving wise.

 

[Dreamer_D]

lol I am totally out of touch on pricing for old cuts these days since I haven't bought any since like 2013, but I think that is a good price for the size and quality of cut, even if it is more tinted than described.

I don't know what kind of jewelery you wear, but I have been hankering for a bangle with a bezel set diamond personally! If a ring, I'd do colored gem sides, about 5mm each

Edit: This kind of bangle

 

[LightBright]

Regarding the first stone we discussed in this thread with the large table, according to the link I’m posting here' the concave dead space in the center of the table has to do with larger table size, table reflection, LGF length and pavilion angle. My understanding from the thread is that the larger table size of that Early Round Brilliant cut (these have generally shallow crown with large tables) contributes to the scooped out/ amorphous look of the center of the stone.
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...s-dead-space-in-the-center-of-a-round.251137/

 

[Cosmetologist]

Regarding the first stone we discussed in this thread with the large table, according to the link I’m posting here' the concave dead space in the center of the table has to do with larger table size, table reflection, LGF length and pavilion angle. My understanding from the thread is that the larger table size of that Early Round Brilliant cut (these have generally shallow crown with large tables) contributes to the scooped out/ amorphous look of the center of the stone.
https://www.pricescope.com/communit...s-dead-space-in-the-center-of-a-round.251137/

Wow thats very interesting - Thanks for sharing!
Especially to understand why some of the Transitionals do suffer with Fish-Eyes or Dead-Centers its really amazing to me that Diamond Cutting is such an accurate math & the evolution of it in the last century is just remarkable - I wonder what it will be like in another 100yrs

I have a side question for you too if you don't mind?

The stone I opted for doesn't have a dead center but under the ASET Scope beneath the table it shows that area predominantly blue - I understand blue is good (contrast/symmetry) but is too much blue in one area bad?

It has minimal green mostly just blue & red with no overly dark areas - Sorry I can't provide a photo - I know it's hard to answer correctly without an image, But a broad summary would be great - I know older stones were cut for maxium Ct Wght & not Optics, So I can imagine studying them is very varied lol

 

[LightBright]

Wow thats very interesting - Thanks for sharing!
Especially to understand why some of the Transitionals do suffer with Fish-Eyes or Dead-Centers its really amazing to me that Diamond Cutting is such an accurate math & the evolution of it in the last century is just remarkable - I wonder what it will be like in another 100yrs

I have a side question for you too if you don't mind?

The stone I opted for doesn't have a dead center but under the ASET Scope beneath the table it shows that area predominantly blue - I understand blue is good (contrast/symmetry) but is too much blue in one area bad?

It has minimal green mostly just blue & red with no overly dark areas - Sorry I can't provide a photo - I know it's hard to answer correctly without an image, But a broad summary would be great - I know older stones were cut for maxium Ct Wght & not Optics, So I can imagine studying them is very varied lol

Hi Cosmetologist, I think Dreamer D. Or someone else might be able to answer the ASET/Idealscope question. Here’s a link to a description of the August Vintage Round brand ASET pattern, which is optimized for light return. It also shows ASETs for various antique cuts which are all different. It discusses what BLUE means in the context of an ASET.
https://www.goodoldgold.com/the-august-vintage-european-cut

Here’s is an ASET from a PS post of an August Vintage
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/august-vintage-round-oec-n-color-nervous.174356/

I think a solid blue center might mean that the “petal” reflection is more “all off or all on”. See Kennedy’s diamond in the photo that Dreamer posted. I don’t know if this is the case, with your stone, and it might not be obvious to the eye. Also, a technically/optical example AVC in the second link I post here, seems to also have all blue in the center: see ASET, so again, this is a variation of the cut, not necessarily a flaw.

Keep in mind that your diamond is unique. It is not a branded cut. It was cut mostly by hand by an artist almost one hundred years ago. I’m serious when I say pre modern diamonds are like snowflakes (look at the variation of the ASETs in the Good Old Gold link). I discourage people from holding out for the elusive “perfect” faceting when it comes to antique diamonds because diamonds are more than faceting pattern. They are 3D, made of a unique rough from a unique mine, reflecting of the cutting style of a unique time and place, reflective of the fashion of the time, they behave differently (perfect faceting doesn’t mean more beautiful in all light and all settings. Perfect faceting pattern doesn’t necessarily mean explosive light return in an antique stone. Perfect faceting sometimes comes with trade offs in size, color, clarity) etc.

There are obviously flawed antique diamonds which you should avoid, and then there are unique ones that can be appreciated and loved for what they are. But you’ve got to love them, that’s all that matters to me. Others feel totally differently, and that’s good too.

However, perfectly faceted stones resell quicker. Just saying.

 

[Cosmetologist]

Hi Cosmetologist, I think Dreamer D. Or someone else might be able to answer the ASET/Idealscope question. Here’s a link to a description of the August Vintage Round brand ASET pattern, which is optimized for light return. It also shows ASETs for various antique cuts which are all different. It discusses what BLUE means in the context of an ASET.
https://www.goodoldgold.com/the-august-vintage-european-cut

Here’s is an ASET from a PS post of an August Vintage
https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/august-vintage-round-oec-n-color-nervous.174356/

I think a solid blue center might mean that the “petal” reflection is more “all off or all on”. See Kennedy’s diamond in the photo that Dreamer posted. I don’t know if this is the case, with your stone, and it might not be obvious to the eye. Also, a technically/optical example AVC in the second link I post here, seems to also have all blue in the center: see ASET, so again, this is a variation of the cut, not necessarily a flaw.

Keep in mind that your diamond is unique. It is not a branded cut. It was cut mostly by hand by an artist almost one hundred years ago. I’m serious when I say pre modern diamonds are like snowflakes (look at the variation of the ASETs in the Good Old Gold link). I discourage people from holding out for the elusive “perfect” faceting when it comes to antique diamonds because diamonds are more than faceting pattern. They are 3D, made of a unique rough from a unique mine, reflecting of the cutting style of a unique time and place, reflective of the fashion of the time, they behave differently (perfect faceting doesn’t mean more beautiful in all light and all settings. Perfect faceting pattern doesn’t necessarily mean explosive light return in an antique stone. Perfect faceting sometimes comes with trade offs in size, color, clarity) etc.

There are obviously flawed antique diamonds which you should avoid, and then there are unique ones that can be appreciated and loved for what they are. But you’ve got to love them, that’s all that matters to me. Others feel totally differently, and that’s good too.

However, perfectly faceted stones resell quicker. Just saying.

Thank-You so much Lightbright for the Fantastic summary it's helped to appreciate this Stone even more!

You are so right in saying that a Diamond is 3D & cannot be valued on numbers or static images alone - How fascinating to think different countries & cities had their own cutting variations of Circular Brilliants, Hopefully my 100yrs of cutting book arrives soon so I can learn the possible Era & Origin of this stone.

It's silly really expecting to find Optical Perfection in Antique Stones & realistically it probably will never happen, You are just setting yourself up for disappointment, So thank-You for the in-depth summary & making me see the bigger picture about Antique Cut Diamonds, I think I got lucky finding this Beauty, It performs very well across all lighting conditions.

I did manage to take a photo of the stone under my ASET Scope, I thought you may like to see it - It certainly validates what I'm seeing when looking at it - The overall symmetry & balance looks almost perfect - It certainly looks better than many of the standard OEC Good Old Gold ASET images shown.

Again many thanks LightBright you've been such a help!

 

[swaye2010]

Thank-You so much Lightbright for the Fantastic summary it's helped to appreciate this Stone even more!

You are so right in saying that a Diamond is 3D & cannot be valued on numbers or static images alone - How fascinating to think different countries & cities had their own cutting variations of Circular Brilliants, Hopefully my 100yrs of cutting book arrives soon so I can learn the possible Era & Origin of this stone.

It's silly really expecting to find Optical Perfection in Antique Stones & realistically it probably will never happen, You are just setting yourself up for disappointment, So thank-You for the in-depth summary & making me see the bigger picture about Antique Cut Diamonds, I think I got lucky finding this Beauty, It performs very well across all lighting conditions.

I did manage to take a photo of the stone under my ASET Scope, I thought you may like to see it - It certainly validates what I'm seeing when looking at it - The overall symmetry & balance looks almost perfect - It certainly looks better than many of the standard OEC Good Old Gold ASET images shown.

Again many thanks LightBright you've been such a help!

If you love old cuts, you should check out Katherine James Jewellery in the UK. Her rings are truly like eye candy and the prices aren’t too bad in GBP.
https://instagram.com/katherinejamesjewellery?igshid=3hbjthmpv0d4