Examples of new AGS grading reports for round and princess

[JohnQuixote]

We thought the PS community might like to see examples of the new AGS DQDs for round and princess cuts.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Princess

 

[JohnQuixote]

For small monitors.

Round, Side A

 

[JohnQuixote]

Round, Side B

 

[JohnQuixote]

Princess, Side A

(Remember that inclusions, folds and staple holes seem much larger under this kind of magnification)

 

[JohnQuixote]

Princess, Side B

 

[JohnQuixote]

Plot info enlarged.

 

[AChiOAlumna]

Do you know if AGS will eventually be coming out with new grading/certs for other shapes (ECs, Radiants, etc)? Or are they limiting themselves strictly to RBs and Princess?

 

[Paul-Antwerp]

AGS plans to bring out cut-grading reports for other fancy shapes too, but knowing the complications of the ''simple'' princess-cut, I suppose that it will take some time before these will be launched.

As for the sample-reports that John put up, we have received a number of new princess-cut-reports last week, and they contain an ''error'' in the profile-view. AGS has informed us that they will send us corrected reports later.

I will try to show an example here, but in case that fails, you can also find it through this link

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Interesting.
Re princess

We are getting only 1 crown angle (Sarin has trouble measuring the top facet angle - but cutters are required to cut it within fairly tight tolerances).

And we are not getting the two pavilion angles - they are giving depth % and corner pavilion angles - which are the same basic data if there is no culet.
The steep pavilion angle is missing?
Is that part of the strategy to stop people copying their system?
To stop the Defacto AGS 0 grading curently used on GIA graded stone in the dealer market?

 

[Lord Summerisle]

Love the mistake there Paul... that or else you haver come up with a completely new form of diamond cut

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 5/16/2005 9:10:05 PM
Author: AChiOAlumna
Do you know if AGS will eventually be coming out with new grading/certs for other shapes (ECs, Radiants, etc)? Or are they limiting themselves strictly to RBs and Princess?

The science supporting the new grading systems reflects AGS'' evolution from proportion-based to more performance-based grading. With this approach the development of systems for other fancy cuts is more realistic, but will take time.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Paul - That explains why your Princess cuts have such great light return.

 

[JC]

Finally! Thanks John. I was wanting to see what those new reports would look like.

 

[MissAva]

Wow! Thanks for posting!

 

[belle]

cool! thanks for the first look!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 5/17/2005 11:23:48 AM
Author: JC
Finally! Thanks John. I was wanting to see what those new reports would look like.

You''re welcome of course.

 

[viscera912]

BAH!!!!

All this does is whet the appetite for pictures pictures pictures

It''s time for the beautiful sparkly pics of the new AGS 0''s....bring it on

jason

 

[Midnight]

John,

It appears that AGS is moving from proportion-based to performance-based grading as you stated. By what criteria, methods or via what means are they grading "performance"....idealscope, eye-ballling..etc? I was hoping for more details info on the role of the minor facets(star facets, upper/lower girdles..etc) and some "real picture" indicating optical performance. All we got with the new report is a new category "Light Performance", assigned a number to it

.

 

[JohnQuixote]

One major player is kin to the ideal-scope. AGS has an Angular Spectrum Evaluation Tool or ASET (they pronounce it ‘asset’). The images are much like IS but use different colors to show light returned at different angles. White is leakage, green is from 0 to 45 degrees from the horizon, red is from 45 to 75 degrees, and blue is 75 to 90 degrees. This assessment will play into the performance analysis.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

For everyones benefit - here is a shot of a nice asscher CZ with and without backlight.

 

[Midnight]

Does AGS planning to incorporate the ASET image into their certs in the future? Correct me if I wrong in that the ASET image looks like "computer generated" based on measurements obtained from Sarin, OGI, Helium...similarily to the ones generated from Diamcalc to simulate IS/Firescope images. If AGS intends to move toward "performance" grading, why generate an image when, in my opinion, obtain a "real" picture to display optical performance?

 

[Midnight]

Gary,

You might have answered my question! Are the top 2 "Ideal Scope" images of your asscher CZ based on the ASET?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Midnight Ogi has gone its own way. You can make ASET images from Sarin 3 D sans, but in say princess cuts - they are not as accurate as Helium scans. You can import computer generated images and open them in DiamCalc and I am sure AGS will soon be releasing some special products of their own.
Those images I took on my desk hand held with a home made version.

I am sure the AGS lab would love to put these and some other images that show a diamonds fire potential right onto the images, but they probably want to shake the industry up slowly

 

[researcher]

Thank you for posting these, John! This explains so much more of what the experts were talking about!!!

 

[JohnQuixote]

Researcher - You're welcome

Midnight - The light performance grade will be based on brightness, dispersion, leakage and contrast interpreted through actual ASET analysis. You're right - My example was a computer-generated image, while Garry provided real photos from his home-made platform (cool Garry!).

AGS does not have current plans to include ASET imagery on grading reports. I have suggested that they be made digitally available online, or provided with the report for a fee (?). We'll see. It's new territory.

In any event, the handheld ASET will be coming out at JCK in June and will sell for $50-$100 I’m told (more for non-members than for members). The pro version will be available sometime in June-July.

 

[Ukieza]

Ooohh.... this is the thread I''ve been looking for.

So do you guys (the experts) feel the ASET will be a good replacement for ideal scope images? Or do you feel a combination of these should be used? My current local jeweler states that their diamonds are better than most because they have the certs and the GEMEX light performance analysis report. Is the ASET technique going to beable to verify the same as the GEMEX light performance analysis report?

Thanks!
Ukieza

 

[Rhino]

Nice Asscher example Gary and thanks to John and Paul for posting those examples.

Paul... it appears AGS is reporting info on Crown 2 and Pavilion 2 (smaller crown angle off the table and pavilion angle from culet to point) and not the others? I would have thought they would have reported both. Guess they don''t have to since they are reporting light performance but it would have been nice to see.

Date: 5/20/2005 2:35:36 PM
Author: Ukieza
Ooohh.... this is the thread I''ve been looking for.

So do you guys (the experts) feel the ASET will be a good replacement for ideal scope images? Or do you feel a combination of these should be used? My current local jeweler states that their diamonds are better than most because they have the certs and the GEMEX light performance analysis report. Is the ASET technique going to beable to verify the same as the GEMEX light performance analysis report?

Thanks!
Ukieza

A couple of years ago a few of us got our hands on the "Gilbertson Scope" (named after Al Gilbertson who is a member of the GIA research team) which also featured a multi-colored type FireScope. Explaining it''s images involved quite a bit more detail which was tough for some to grasp besides the fact that 8* was threatening us with law-suits for posting images taken through it at that time.

The red reflectors are much easier to interpret but with a proper tutorial and explanation the ASET shouldn''t bee too difficult to grasp. Actually this graphic does a good job in explaining where the colors are coming from.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Date: 5/20/2005 2:35:36 PM
Author: Ukieza
Ooohh.... this is the thread I've been looking for.

So do you guys (the experts) feel the ASET will be a good replacement for ideal scope images? Or do you feel a combination of these should be used? My current local jeweler states that their diamonds are better than most because they have the certs and the GEMEX light performance analysis report. Is the ASET technique going to beable to verify the same as the GEMEX light performance analysis report?

Thanks!
Ukieza

Ukieza - ASET and Ideal-scope are different in nature than Brilliancescope.

For the sake of staying on-topic (the new AGS report), I’m going to try to restrict my comments to ASET and its cousin the Ideal-scope. These assessment devices have been accepted by the scientific community and AGS. You can do a PS search on “Brilliancescope” or “Gemex” and read both sides of the Brilliancescope controversy. I fear this thead (like many before it) could get hijacked by yet another hashing out of arguments already well-documented.

Regarding Ideal-Scope and ASET: Each facet on a diamond can be thought of as a window. The directions of light rays that make a window appear illuminated represent angular spectrum. The illumination scenario has its own angular spectrum as well. When they coincide the windows of the diamond disperse light and direct it to your eye. Ideal-scope has been showing us overall light return and leakage with white, black and hues of red from the horizontal to the vertical. Coding different angle ranges with different colors is ASET’s twist. Like IS, white is leakage. Green is from 0 to 45 degrees from the horizon, red is from 45 to 75 degrees, and blue is 75 to 90 degrees.

My opinion is that I have found ideal-scope images infinitely useful, especially when coupled with known proportions for rounds. Since proportions alone cannot tell the story on fancies I think sight-unseen evaluation has been largely enabled by IS. Compared to the days BIS (before IS)

it’s day versus night. Will the ASET color coding enable enhanced assessment? It’s likely.

By the way – noted this question in another thread – With regard to contrast, AGS is concerned with distribution of the contrast pattern produced by obscuration.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Great graphic Jonathan.