Ethiopian Opals and Hiddenite questions....

[RedSpinel]

I figured I include both of these 2 stones in the same thread since they look so much alike!(LOL)

Anyway, due to a lack of time, I kinda got out of keeping up with the gemstone industry for a few years(2009-2012), and now I'm looking back into it, and I've noticed some new stuff......Like Ethiopian Opals. I've seen some on sale on the internet, and I dont recall hearing about a big Ethiopian opal deposit being mined just a few years ago, or maybe I just missed it.

Has anyone seen any of these opals, and how do they compare with top grade opals from other areas? The ones I've seen are all white crystal opals, and I dont think I've seen any that could be called black opals. Whats the dilly-o?

Also, the biggest disappointment(literally and figuratively) of my gemstone collecting career involved a large Hiddenite. I bought it from a Thai dealer in about 2007, and it was 39 cts. It was extremely well cut, and very proportionate. There were zero naked eye flaws, and it had a light, but nice green color to it. So I bought it for around $280.

So I get it home, and it looks just as it did in the pictures I'd seen, and it was very big. I never mounted it, and never even took it outside into sunlight. In fact, it stayed in a box, in a little case by itself because it wouldnt fit into my other gem tray cases.

So there was no bright light affecting it. But then, after only a matter of days, I noticed it seemed to start getting lighter in color. By about 5 weeks later, it had lost about 80% of it's original color. Dont get me wrong, it was never extremely dark to begin with, as most spodumene isnt dark, but it did have color saturation that I'd grade as a C+ or B- compared to world class spodumene.

But within 2 months, it had lost 90% of its color, and now its mainly just clear.... With a little greenish hue that you can(or cant) barely see. In the mean time, I also own 3 Kunzites, with the best one which is pretty dark for Kunzite, and I'd give it an A- for color, and 2 other I'd give B- to. But I've had them for 7 years at least, in my trays, and they have NOT lost ANY color! Granted they have not been out in the sun, but they have been in the light for long periods.

I had a hard time fitting the 39ct Hiddenite into my refractometer, but I got it in there, and it measured right.......But.........(?)

Has anyone ever heard of spodumene losing color that quickly?

 

[Kim Bruun]

I have no expert knowledge on hiddenite, but as is the case with kunzite, I have heard that the colour is not stable. I haven't made a record of every source, unfortunately, but have read some accounts of kunzite fading within days after being taken from the ground, while others state that they have owned kunzite for years without it losing colour. I own two large kunzite uncute specimens, one being a deep pink, the other nearly colourless. I've had the deep pink one for more than a decade, and to me, it doesn't look like it has lost much colour, if any - and it has seen light, but like you, I have kept it out of the sun.

I suspect that some kunzites are more stable in colour than others. But I have no idea if there is any correlation between colour stability and location/treatment. For instance, much kunzite is heated and nuked to improve colour. Does this treatment affect how stable the colour is? Frankly, I have always thought that there was not enough literature on colour stability/fading. But perhaps it is an issue with no easy answers.

 

[ChrisA222]

Hi, I can help out with this one...

I bought a really nice, well saturated large Hiddenite about a year or so ago...it was a nice, very slightly bluish green. It sat in my gem jar up until about a month ago...

As I was going through my collection looking for some stones to sell, about a month ago, I pulled it out. It did seem to be a little lighter than it was, but I brushed that off as I am imagining things...as I had heard about Spodumenes getting lighter. Only because I specifically remember being so impressed by this gem when I got it. Whatever...It must have been a newbie thing when I first got it.

The gem didn't sell...and it has been sitting on my desk just occupying space in my bedroom. I just looked at it a couple of days ago and WOW...it is now pale pale green, barely so. It is almost colorless! I couldnt and still can't believe it. I contacted the vendor...as I wanted to tell him what happened to the gem and he has asked me to return it. I am going to do so. Now, I do not expect any money back as it is not his fault and a lot of time has passed, but I did want him to see it. As he is in the USA he may replace it or something, I dont know and that wasn't the point of me sending it to him...its over 11 cts though and a shame.

Since then I have done a little research and Ill pass along what Ive read. Apparently, all green Spodumene is being called "hiddenite" in the gem trade right now. But, apparently, only true Hiddenite from NC is colored by Chromium naturally, and it is that which makes it color stable. According to what Ive read, the rest of the green colored Spodumene shouldnt be called Hiddenite and it is all destined to fade with any light that the stone is subject to. Now, I did read from other places that the pink Kunzite either does not fade at all, or will only fade a tiny tiny amount unless it is worn in the sunlight frequently. I dont know what is true...I am only reporting what Ive read. I dont have any pink Kunzite in my collection...I did have a few pieces which I sold, but those didnt lose any color, they never left the gem jar though. Also it should be noted that I found out that some of the Spodumene...whether its green or Pink...is treated. I do not know if treatement has any corellation to fading.

I hope this helps! As far as the Etheopian Opals..or Welo Opals...I have many of them...I love them. They have great play of color compared to the Aussie Opals..at least for the money. They are all transparent or translucent white for the most part, but you can find some with a yellow or orange base. I havent seen any black from Welo. That being said, JTV does sell what they are calling "Chalama" opals, which I hear are normal Welo's that are smoked in a lab to appear black/blackish. Ive read that it is permanent, and also that it is not. LOL. Hope this helps!

 

[RedSpinel]

Thats EXACTLY what happened to my hiddenite, but it started lightening in a matter of days or about a week or so, then I put it away for a months or so, and it had lightened 80% or so. Now it looks clear with maybe a little greenish hue if you turn it the right way!

But it too started out as a blueish-green, and I still have the original photo of it from the internet before I bought it too! Its on this or my other computer in Picassa. I've kept some of the sales pictures of the gems I've bought over the internet from Thai dealers, so I can go back and compare some of them if they start to "Change".....

The Hiddenite I bought is huge, and I hoped it would hold up, but that didnt happen, now its not even in with the rest of my collection! That was a $280 loss...... I honestly think they have found an artificial way to "temporarily" color these things, and I guarantee you they know that they are going to lose their color! These Thai dealers have to have held on to at least 1 or 2 of these stones after buying them, just long enough to see them fade.... But as long as they can unload them in a hurry, then the customer is none the wiser til its too late!

Like I said in the OP, none of my 3 Kunzites have lost their color. I've had them for years... So I think its some kind of heat or elemental treatment, like maybe they do with beryllium and sapphires. I have a few of them too, but they havent lost their color either!

 

[jeffdvs101]

The treatment used on green Spodumene was some form of irradiation, and the colors were truly spectacular! there was a huge amount of this material around the Asian markets about 5 years ago, the treatment was not permanent and they faded at an alarming rate! Thankfully you no longer see it. Irradiation is also regularly used on Kunzite, though the color is more permanent unless exposed to sunlight, which is also the case for untreated Kunzite, neither should be exposed to sunlight.

Ethiopia does produce dark Opal, known as chocolate Opal, usually a dark brown color, but very prone to cracking. The Welo material is nearly always transparent, much more stable and can have spectacular color play.

 

[ChrisA222]

Unfortunately Jeff, you do still see that yucky "Hiddenite"...the vendor that I bought my stone from still sells it. Like I said I made him aware of it, to the point of me sending him my stone, but it is still out there and not just being sold by him. Its a shame, really. But, Jeff do you know if there is any truth about how the original "Hiddenite" from NC is A)colored by Chromium and B)resistant to fade like the pink Kunzite is?

I'd love to find out how to even get a piece of the North Carolina material...I love the look of Spodumene...it has a unique look about it...but unless you have Pink, that color is gone in 60 seconds

 

[LD]

Okay - well here is a photo of my "Hiddenite"! Spectacular colour? Yes it was. This is now almost colourless. It took approximately 3 months to go from the colour in the photo to a hint of a tint of green and it's remained stable at that point. I don't believe this has been irradiated. When it arrived there was an incredibly strong smell of petrol and it had a very strange oily slick to it. I've never been able to identify the treatment but clearly it's not stable.

In terms of Kunzite - some fades, some doesn't and it's impossible to predict if it will/won't. I have around 10 pieces - all kept in a safe and very rarely worn. Some have faded and some haven't. There's no common denominator. I do not believe that sunlight is solely responsible for fading. I believe that some treatments are just not stable but it's impossible to predict how each gem will react.

A year or so ago, Pandora and I both heated a Kunzite in a normal household oven. I can't remember if Pandora's darkened at all but mine did very slightly.

 

[Pandora II]

Yes - 'Chicken Kunzite TM' did result in two shades darker (as measured using Dulux paint shade cards so obviously highly scientific).

 

[RedSpinel]

Okay - well here is a photo of my "Hiddenite"! Spectacular colour? Yes it was. This is now almost colourless. It took approximately 3 months to go from the colour in the photo to a hint of a tint of green and it's remained stable at that point. I don't believe this has been irradiated. When it arrived there was an incredibly strong smell of petrol and it had a very strange oily slick to it. I've never been able to identify the treatment but clearly it's not stable.

In terms of Kunzite - some fades, some doesn't and it's impossible to predict if it will/won't. I have around 10 pieces - all kept in a safe and very rarely worn. Some have faded and some haven't. There's no common denominator. I do not believe that sunlight is solely responsible for fading. I believe that some treatments are just not stable but it's impossible to predict how each gem will react.

A year or so ago, Pandora and I both heated a Kunzite in a normal household oven. I can't remember if Pandora's darkened at all but mine did very slightly.

Thats a real shame there! That stone is(was) darker than the one I bought, but mine had that same blue-green pleochroism to it. I'm glad I didnt run into that stone, because I might have paid even more for it! I'll see if I can find the picture of mine from 5-6 years ago when I bought it, and then figure out how to get that picture from Picassa, to here.

As far as the "real" North Carolina Hiddenite, I've never really seen a truly nice faceted example of it for sale that was clean. I just saw some rough for sale from the NC mine, and its got a beautiful color to it, but its too included to facet(which is why they are selling the rough). It looks pure green though, but who knows, if you found a faceted example maybe it would show some pleochroism. It does have kind of an emerald green color to it.

You can probably do an Ebay search and find some NC Hiddenite rough that looks right color wise, but it will be very included. I'd love to buy a real one of 5ct or more, but I just dont see it happening any time soon, as they seem to have run out of it in NC.

But whats interesting though, is that the owner of a large property parcel started digging on it, and found Emeralds! There are some good looking Emeralds out of that area of NC. Its all that same region of north Carolina in or near the town of Hiddenite.

 

[Barrett]

There is a fairly decent amount of NC hiddenite for sale right now. Terry Ledford is selling off a good amount of his material, Mark Randall has some for sale, and Rodney Moore has some. Terry has facetable material and cut stones but anything close to 5+cts(if you could ever even find any that big ..not sure if any cut stones have ever topped 5cts..would have to check) would run you in the many tens of thousands of dollars. I was with Terry two days ago here in Georgia watching him dig up amethyst.
Here are a couple he has for sale as of 2 weeks ago
4.7cm x 0.6cm for $900


and a great colored one for $3000
2.5cm x .05cm

Here are two emeralds he dug up last april(2011)

 

[jeffdvs101]

Sorry Chris, I know nothing about the NC material, though if it is coming out of the ground green, then the colour should be stable.

 

[RedSpinel]

That second picture down is the Hiddenite I was talking about. That color is fantastic, and I'd love to have a 5ct faceted gem of that which was clean, but if they are selling included facet rough for $3,000, then the odds of finding a clean 5ct faceted one arent very good, or if it can be found, it'll be more expensive than I can afford to spend on it! But the color is fantastic, and I'd love to see a clean faceted one up close in a museum. Wonder what it looks like?

Are those 2 very large Emerald crystals from N.C.? I dont know how clean they are, but man, they look good! Thats world class Emerald color right there! I'd heard that the material from NC was close to rivaling Colombian material, and that seems to prove it.... But again, I dont know how clean it is, maybe its too included to get clean stones from, but maybe he got a 10ct clean Emerald out of one or both, who knows....... They have to be worth some serious cash though!

Has he/they dug up many that nice and that large? Are they getting nice faceted stones out of the rough?

My whole family lives in NC(except us and a couple others), and have lived there since the 1700's, so it's cool to see they are finding that there....

 

[Barrett]

He found the largest ever cut stone at the same time he found these.. it's 64cts.(by that I mean rough for the cut stone) Largest faceted emerald from North America/N.C.
One of those crystals sold for $800,000 or it was another one he dug up around the same time..not sure the exact one.
Like you mentioned he was finding only hiddenite for years and every now and then hit some pockets of emeralds. Emeralds have always been known on Adams farm but so has hiddenite. It's the best of both world's. These were a big strikew for him last April and kept under wraps for some time.

Yea, the color is so nice on that second one especially. It has the nicest color of the ones he has sale that I have seen. Farooq from Minedirect.com had some chromium bearing hiddenite that was found in Afghanistan back in 2006 and reported about in Gems & Gemology.
N.C. hiddenite has always been real expensive but the prices right now are the lowest it has ever been. It used to be pricier than anything I would want but as of late the prices and quantity have been much better. I remember seeing little pale colored slivers at gem shows for astronomical prices.
I do wonder what the largest faceted Cr bearing hiddenite is from N.C.?

 

[RedSpinel]

He found the largest ever cut stone at the same time he found these.. it's 64cts.(by that I mean rough for the cut stone) Largest faceted emerald from North America/N.C.
One of those crystals sold for $800,000 or it was another one he dug up around the same time..not sure the exact one.
Like you mentioned he was finding only hiddenite for years and every now and then hit some pockets of emeralds. Emeralds have always been known on Adams farm but so has hiddenite. It's the best of both world's. These were a big strikew for him last April and kept under wraps for some time.

Yea, the color is so nice on that second one especially. It has the nicest color of the ones he has sale that I have seen. Farooq from Minedirect.com had some chromium bearing hiddenite that was found in Afghanistan back in 2006 and reported about in Gems & Gemology.
N.C. hiddenite has always been real expensive but the prices right now are the lowest it has ever been. It used to be pricier than anything I would want but as of late the prices and quantity have been much better. I remember seeing little pale colored slivers at gem shows for astronomical prices.
I do wonder what the largest faceted Cr bearing hiddenite is from N.C.?

How are they actually doing the mining? Is it just him and a few buddies or employees with picks and shovels, or is it a larger setup with heavy equipment and all that?

Can you imagine the feeling of finding an Emerald like that, in North Carolina of all places, then realizing you'll get $800,000 for just one of them!?! Thats some luck!

I'm not sure that the NC Hiddenite, although pretty, would be a good investment at the prices some people are asking. I have seen a few light colored ones, that if they were just about any other stone you'd never consider spending more than a few dollars for them, if even that. So the thought of spending thousands on a washed out looking, moderate to heavily included stone is not my cup of tea, but someone likes that tea!

I wonder if they will strike a large pocket of the darker green Hiddenite, or if they've already pretty much mined it out?