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rounddiamond

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
3
Hi,
I'm new to this... I am currently looking for a diamond, and went to what I thought was a reputable private jeweler in my area who has a 2.22 carat round estate diamond. I looked at this diamond under a scope, and it has chips in the edges of the diamond. They want $12,000 for this diamond. It's graded a G color and a VS1, but had no papers. The inclusions in the diamond were very small. (I looked at diamonds at other jewelers under a scope and the inclusions in their stones looked much larger for the same rated VS1.) They told me that the chip wouldn't harm the diamond, and that they thought of having the diamond recut and then sell it, but they felt it would lose value if it was recut, as it would loose carat weight. Also, the culet doesn't come to a point, but you can see a circle on the bottom.

My questions : Can the chip cause the diamond to eventually fracture? Can I have the stone mounted so that a prong covers the chip? (You can't see it with the naked eye.) Should this diamond be appraised first? Where do I go to find an appraiser in my area and what can I expect to pay? If the stone is recut, do they only cut the outside edges.... or recut and reshape the whole diamond.

Or, should I just run from this diamond!!

Thanks for any help!
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
26,968
As a point of reference I just looked up a G VS1 1.6 carat and found out it would cost about $17,000 for a ideal-cut new diamond from PS vendors.

IF this is a worst-case carat loss now you just have to find out if this chunk of "rough" is really G VS1.

You need an appraiser.

Also you will bear the risk if it cracks during recutting.

Next, I don't know if a private individual has access to the same top-quality cutters as the pros, so I'm not sure that the quality of the final cut is a certainty.
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,674

Get it appraised, and choose an appraiser who is familiar with recutting. Not all are and this issue of recut potential is the heart of your question. Chipped edges can be a problem, especially on some of the older cuts where the girdle is very thin (this is usually what causes the chipping in the first place). Recutting carries with it some costs, some risks and it involves some decisions that aren’t entirely obvious. It also changes the entire character of the diamond. Recutting a damaged OEC into an RBC is not an unreasonable thing to do, but if what you wanted was an OEC, it defeats the point.


Chipping is a clarity characteristic and unless they are extremely small, it’s not a VS1, which is why it doesn’t have paperwork. This also raises the question of the accuracy of color grading.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

rounddiamond

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
3
How do I find an appraiser in my area? What are the costs to appraise, and recut if that''s what I decide to do?

Also, if I don''t have it recut, is there a higher risk of fracture?
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,674
Pat,

There’s a ‘find an appraiser’ utility at the top of the page under resources. Tell us your area and you may get specific recommendations from the PS membership of people they have used. Appraisers don’t all charge the same but they are all happy to discuss their rates prior to starting any work. The selling jeweler or the appraiser should be able to help you locate a skilled cutter and it's usually better to do this transaction through a professional middleman. They should be able to estimate the price when they have the opportunity to inspect the stone.

Risk of breakage during the cutting process is generally low but not zero. That’s part of why stones requiring recut are traded at a discount of more than the cutting fees and why you want to find an appraiser that is experienced with this and can help you assess the risk. The breakage, if it occurs, usually isn’t total destruction by the way. The result is that the yield becomes less than you originally expected.

During your appraisal, ask the appraiser about the risks of further damage if you choose not to recut it. There are lots of variables but occasionally the risk is pretty high.
Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver


 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 11/27/2006 7:53:54 AM
Author: kenny
As a point of reference I just looked up a G VS1 1.6 carat and found out it would cost about $17,000 for a ideal-cut new diamond from PS vendors.

IF this is a worst-case carat loss now you just have to find out if this chunk of ''rough'' is really G VS1.

You need an appraiser.

Also you will bear the risk if it cracks during recutting.

Next, I don''t know if a private individual has access to the same top-quality cutters as the pros, so I''m not sure that the quality of the final cut is a certainty.
don''t listen to kenny - DON''T RECUT IT - there are too many people out there in this world desperate for OECs - if you want a cheaper round why not try a pawn shop??
 

denverappraiser

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jul 21, 2004
Messages
8,674

I agree that there is a certain tragedy associated with recutting perfectly good OEC’s and that this advice is given far too lightly but it’s not out of the question that this is a good situation for it.


*IF* it’s a G and
*IF* it can recut to a VS1 and
*IF* it can be recut to GIA- excellent or AGS-0 RBC proportion sets (or both) and
*IF* it can be expected to remain in the range of 2 carats and
*IF* it doesn’t have serious strain or other problems that will undermine the recut,
then this is a way of getting a 2 carat, G-VS1 AGS-0 headlight for less than $13k and nominal risk. This woul be a terrific deal.

Those are some pretty big if’s, and this is not a project for the faint of heart but Kenny''s approach is basically sound, which is why I suggested a consultation with a professional. Tiny details make a big difference and there’s a huge number of critical assumptions being made here. It''s relatively likely that the dealer has already made their estimation of this and elected not to do it so the bet is whether the dealer and their suppliers know what they''re doing. Some do, some don''t.


Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
Messages
26,968
I wasn''t recommending a recut.

I was only looking for what the value may be if it was recut.
 

Cehrabehra

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jun 29, 2006
Messages
11,071
Date: 11/27/2006 11:57:15 AM
Author: denverappraiser

I agree that there is a certain tragedy associated with recutting perfectly good OEC’s and that this advice is given far too lightly but it’s not out of the question that this is a good situation for it.



*IF* it’s a G and
*IF* it can recut to a VS1 and
*IF* it can be recut to GIA- excellent or AGS-0 RBC proportion sets (or both) and
*IF* it can be expected to remain in the range of 2 carats and
*IF* it doesn’t have serious strain or other problems that will undermine the recut,
then this is a way of getting a 2 carat, G-VS1 AGS-0 headlight for less than $13k and nominal risk. This woul be a terrific deal.

Those are some pretty big if’s, and this is not a project for the faint of heart but Kenny''s approach is basically sound, which is why I suggested a consultation with a professional. Tiny details make a big difference and there’s a huge number of critical assumptions being made here. It''s relatively likely that the dealer has already made their estimation of this and elected not to do it so the bet is whether the dealer and their suppliers know what they''re doing. Some do, some don''t.



Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ICGA(AGS) NAJA
Professional Appraisals in Denver
well of course you are correct - yours is a logical and professional view and mine ::sobsobsob:: is strictly emotional LOL!
 

dtnyc

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 27, 2005
Messages
1,082
I would get the stone to an appraiser who is familiar with antique cut stones. It could be that the chip is a "natural" which is a bit of the "skin" of the rough left on the girdle of the stone.
 

rounddiamond

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 27, 2006
Messages
3
OK, I called an appraiser -- who''s name I got under resources on this site, and he is double the cost of jewerly stores in the area. The people in the jewerly stores are "graduate gemologists". The person that I found on this site has GG, CIA, and NAJA behind his name. What do these credentials mean? Is it worth the extra money for the written appraisal? Will he be able to tell me about the safety of the chip on the girdle, having it recut etc......the value of the stone with the older cut?

What questions should I ask..... what to look for..... I''ll take all the advise I can get at this point! Thanks so much!
 
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