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Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedback)

MrReborn

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
6
First let me start by saying that I'm very glad I have found this forum, very informative thanks to a lot of you.

I'm hoping to get some feedback on a diamond i'm looking to purchase. Though it still hasn't been decided what setting it will be on, i'm hoping I can get some thoughts/feedback form some of you experts on here.

My total budget with setting is around 25k. I'm pretty set on the round cut and the rock being over 2ct with an Exellent cut grade. I was hoping that I would be able to score on a G or H in color, but doesn't seem to to be working well with my budget. Anyway... please give me some feedback. thanks!

Specs:
Round Brilliant
Measurements 8.20 - 8.24 x 5.01 mm
Carat Weight 2.09 carat
Color Grade I
Clarity Grade VS2
Cut Grade Excellent

PROPORTIONS
Depth 61.0 %
Table 60 %
Crown Angle 34.0°
Crown Height 13.5%
Pavilion Angle 41.0°
Pavilion Depth 43.5%
Star Length 50%
Lower Half 80%
Girdle Slightly Thick, Faceted, 4.0%
Culet None

FINISH
Polish Excellent
Symmetry Excellent

FLUORESCENCE
Fluorescence Faint
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,607
Re: Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedbac

Welcome! I just posted these parameters for someone else, so I will post them for you to help you as you narrow down stones. That one is not bad, but it is a 60/60 type stone and most of the people here favor the Towlkowsky ideal cut specs more.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0)


Also, there is a screening tool for GIA ex cut stones:

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

You want to see Excellent on light return, fire, and scintillation, and very good on spread. An overall score of 2.0 or lower means a diamond is worth exploring further (but a 1.0 isn’t necessarily better than 1.9).
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,607
Re: Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedbac

I just ran the numbers through the HCA and it scored 2.2 with Light Return excellent and Fire, Scintillation, and Spread very good. So you can find some that are better!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
Re: Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedbac

diamondseeker2006|1453001026|3977070 said:
I just ran the numbers through the HCA and it scored 2.2 with Light Return excellent and Fire, Scintillation, and Spread very good. So you can find some that are better!
Round Diamonds 101:

The entire purpose of faceting a diamond is to reflect light.
How well or how poorly a diamond does this determines how beautiful it is.
How well a diamond performs is determined by the angles and cutting. This is why we say cut is king.
No other factor: not color, not clarity has as much of an impact on the appearance of a diamond as its cut. An ideal H will out white a poorly cut F. With round diamonds even a GIA triple Excellent is not enough. And you must stick to GIA and AGS only (HPD in Europe is good as well). EGL is a bad option: [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/egl-certification-are-any-of-them-ok.142863/[/URL]
So how to we ensure that we have the right angles and cutting to get the light performance we want?
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/diamond-cut
Well one method is to start with a GIA Ex, and then apply the HCA to it. YOU DO NOT USE HCA for AGS0 stones generally, though you can. In general, AGS0 trumps HCA though as one examines the actual stone and the other does not.
https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/holloway-cut-advisor
The HCA is a rejection tool. Not a selection tool. It uses 4 data points to make a rudimentary call on how the diamond may perform.
If the diamond passes then you know that you are in the right zone in terms of angles for light performance. Under 2 is a pass. Under 2.5-2.1 is a maybe. 2.6 and over is a no. No score 2 and under is better than any other.
Is that enough? Not really.

So what you need is a way to check actual light performance of your actual stone.
That's what an idealscope image does. https://www.pricescope.com/wiki/diamonds/firescope-idealscope
It shows you how and wear your diamond is reflecting light, how well it is going at it, and where you are losing light return. That is why you won't see us recommending Blue Nile, as they do not provide idealscope images for their diamonds. BGD,BE, James Allen, GOG, HPD, ERD and WF do.

The Idealscope is the 'selection tool'. Not the HCA.
So yes, with a GIA stone you need the idealscope images. Or you can buy an idealscope yourself and take it in to the jeweler you are working with to check the stones yourself. Or if you have a good return policy (full refund minimum 7 days) then you can buy the idealscope, buy the stone, and do it at home.

Now if you want to skip all that... stick to AGS0 stones and then all you have to do is pick color and clarity and you know you have a great performing diamond. Because AGS has already done the checking for you. That's why they trade at a premium. Some AGS0's are better than others though, so pay attention to any ASET or IS provided.

In general with rounds, you will want a table 60% or less. A depth between 59 and 62.4. Crown angle 33.5-36. Pavilion Angle: 40.6-41 (there is a little give on this). And the crown and pavilion angles must be complimentary which is what the HCA checks for you.

ON COLOR:

It is important to remember is that color is graded FACE DOWN. Where there is NO light return. Not face up where there is light return and refraction. You wear diamonds set. FACE UP.

Within one color grade, even the labs can't agree on the color grades of stones and something could be a "high" H or a "low" E. So... no. Not really. Within 2 color grades it is hard. Not impossible. But very hard. And it gets harder once set. If you are talking ideal rounds, or any stone with ideal light return and no sharp corners it gets harder still because the ideal light return masks body color.

Generally we say to be conservative stay above H in a round. But MANY people have happily bought white I or even J diamonds when trying to eek out a little more size.

This is how I think of it.

Ever gotten one of those HUGE paint fan decks? Where there are literally 100s of colors of whites? And when they are RIGHT next to each other you can TOTALLY tell that one is bluer/colder and one is a bit warmer and which one is one is TOTALLY warmer. One there's one that's slightly greener. One that's slightly pinker? But really. They are all white?

Then you pick one after agonizing over this white or that white and when it's on the walls and people are like: Oh. You painted again. And it's STILL white. Great.

And you're all... BUT it's BLUE white. Or it's a WARM white now. It used to be ____ white. It's TOTALLY different.

It's like that. You are talking about shades of white. D is colder... J is warmer. But it's all white.

YES. If you have an accurately graded F and an H THAT HAVE THE SAME PERFORMANCE you are going to be able to tell them apart when you compare them. Just like you would be able to tell if you painted your walls a warm white, but painted the crown molding a cold/straight white. But both are STILL white.


I want you notice all the qualifiers thought. I'm talking about stones with the SAME performance. An ideal H will out white an F that has compromised light performance from a poor cut.

NOTHING impacts the appearance of a diamond as much as cut. CUT is king.

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.

ON CLARITY:
http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/SI/ and http://www.goodoldgold.com/4Cs/Clarity/VS/ Generally we say that eyeclean SI1 and VS2 are as high as you need to go with round brilliants, have your vendor check the diamond for this. VS1 will always be eyeclean, but they do cost more and an eyeclean SI1 and a VS1 will look the same to the unaided eye.
 

MrReborn

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
6
Re: Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedbac

You want the shinest whitest and brightest diamond out there: Cut is King. No other factor, not color or clarity or anything else impacts how white bright an shiny a stone is.
Thank you so much for clarifying this, so with this cut grade being 'Excellent' I'm feeling better. I was more afraid that the color would affect the diamond and make it look "foggy" even with an excellent cut. So just to reiterate, the color is mostly noticeable when the diamond is viewed from the bottom/side, and from the top it should almost not be noticeable, it should still sparkle and not give a dull/foggy diamond look. Which if that's the case, once the stone is set, it should almost not be noticeable as the next diamond ring that may have the same specs but an F in color.


After running it on the hca tool, it comes back with "2.2 - Very Good - Worth buying if the price is right", and just so that I get a better idea of "... if the price is right.", if say the price is around 18k, would that still be worth a buy? The diamond is a VS2, and it's eye clean, I was even having a hard time finding the small inclusions with the loupe until after they pointed the location with the report. Forgive me if this is a ridiculous question - but are diamond prices usually set in stone, or would it really be up to the jeweler if they want to work on the price?


Thanks once again, much appreciated.
 

solgen

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
563
Re: Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedbac

That diamond has a larger table so the HCA will ding it pretty dramatically. HCA really doesn't favor 60/60 type diamonds. Change the table to 57 and it'll probably score much better. Keep in mind that the general consensus is a 60/60 will favor white light return over fire so if you prefer that look then it's worth considering. The trend now is to prefer smaller tables and slightly steeper diamonds for better fire. As such I would expect a 60/60 type diamond to be cheaper than something with the specs diamondseeker2006 listed. And there's always some room for price negotiation.
 

MrReborn

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
6
Re: Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedbac

So to clarify it's just more up to what the person prefers more "white light" vs "fire", and the current trend is "fire".

Good information. Thank you.
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,607
Re: Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedbac

MrReborn|1453250122|3978246 said:
So to clarify it's just more up to what the person prefers more "white light" vs "fire", and the current trend is "fire".

Good information. Thank you.
No, I would not call it a trend. The best cut round stones in the world are going to be cut to ideal proportions and the HCA score tries to help you get a stone that is in ideal cut range. We recommend stones for consideration that score 2.0 or under on the hCA and that get Excellent for Light Return, Scintillation, and Fire. This one did get excellent for light return. It is up to personal preference especially if you can view several excellent cut diamonds at one time. When choosing online, I always would recommend the safe numbers, but since you can see the stone in person, I think you should compare it to a couple of others, if possible.
 

MrReborn

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jan 16, 2016
Messages
6
Re: Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedbac

Okay. So I think I'm going to go with this diamond piece, but now is there a way to verify if this is the "right price" and I'm not overpaying? Currently the price is a little over $18,000...

My initial thoughts are to just set the specs and filter on bluenile to see if they compare, sorry for all the questions, I'm just trying to go about things 1 step at a time here. Thanks
 

Medphysdave

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 13, 2015
Messages
67
Re: Engagement Ring - Searching for the right stone.(Feedbac

I would call whiteflash, and tell them what you are looking for. Customer service is amazing, and no pressure whatsoever to buy.
 
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