Engagement Ring Hunting Story

[cfernandez]

First off, I''d like to thank anyone who replies to this post and to the administrators of this website. I have been diamond hunting for an engagement ring for the last month and a half and invariably all of my searches and questions led me to a post here on pricescope, where I see even the most esteemed individuals in the industry participate and give their opinion to regular Joe''s like me. Not to mention the vendors who come to answer questions for potential and current customers. This website is a wonderful resource for clueless boyfriends like myself to do their homework and find answers to one of the biggest purchases they''ll make in their life.

Where do I begin? First I think it would be a good idea to give you all some information about myself. I am a analyst by nature and I consider to be one my biggest assets and faults. I research a pair of $20 dollar jeans before I buy them just to make sure I''m getting the most for my money. And when it comes to a pair of jeans, there is not much to consider. However, a diamond is a totally different story. I was overwhelmed with the amount of factors that go into making an informative decision when buying a diamond. EGL vs GIA? The price difference between EGL and GIA and the difference in quality? Is it safe to buy these diamonds online, can I really make an informed decision based on statistics and pictures (if I get lucky I see a picture)? Diamond inclusions including feathers, clouds, surface graining, internal graining, pinpoints, twinning wisps, needles, knots, naturals, pick your poison! Diamonds with "very good" cuts and low HCA scores and "ideal" cuts with high HCA scores. The price difference between a .90ct and a 1.00 ct, the psychological difference between .90 and 1.00 that you''ll have to swallow for the rest of your life!

This is just a quick description of some of the things I have to consider when buying a diamond. Like most boyfriends, I started my hunt with my local jewlers - The Kays, Zales, Gordons, and Jareds. The only diamond from a brick and mortar store that I admired was the Leo Diamond at Jared''s jewelers for $6600 with a lifetime warranty. It was a H color, SI1, GOOD/GOOD, .99ct with a cert from the IGI. After the local jewelers, I ventured into the markets of the International Jewelry Exchange. The prices were definitely better than the jewelry stores, not to mention that I could haggle on the prices. However, the quality of the stones were not what I demanded and I quickly found that my few days of internet research allowed me to become more knowledgeable on the diamonds than the salesmen (to that, I owe pricescope).

Ofcourse, being the analyst researcher that I am I knew I could find a better deal online. And so my online hunt began.

My first google search for online diamonds led me to Union Diamond and BlueNile, two of the most reputable online jewelers from what I read. I''m currently dealing with Union Diamond as I find their prices, policies, and selection to be better than most. However, UnionDiamond lacks one key factor to online diamond shopping: pictures! Before I see the diamond all I''m really shopping for is specifications. Then, I must engage one of their sales reps to get back to me with a picture of the diamond. I''ve been back and forth with one of their reps for the past two weeks now who has been sending me pictures of diamonds as I request them. The problem is, I feel bad to constantly have to email my rep different stock numbers to get a picture/opinion of the stone. Why should I feel bad when I''m the one with $6000 ready to be spent? The buyer should never feel like he is inconveniencing the seller, and being the voluminous researcher that I am I cannot help but feel sorry for my rep!

Pictures are important! My next searches led me to JamesAllen.com and WhiteFlash.com. Finally, two sites where I can look at diamond pictures all day without having to inconvenience anyone! The prices and selection are not as good as UnionDiamond but at least I can see exactly what I''m buying.

Down to the nitty gritty.

I''d like to think with whatever big purchase I make, there has been an informed decision that leads to a quality product. Especially since this gift is going to the most special person in the world to me, I''d like to make sure I get the best for my money. My budget started at $3000, escalated to $6000, and is now spiraling out of control at $8000. I''d like to get the best for my money within the $6000 to $8000 dollar range, with a tiffany solitaire platinum setting (around $550) set and ready to go. My ideal diamond is a 1.00ct D VS2 triple Excellent/Ideal rating with no fluorescence with certs from GIA or AGS only, of which I found one for $7500 that will run up to $8000 once set. I don''t mind varying every aspect of those specifications (except price) so long I think it is a good value.

On the low end of the spectrum, I can get a .94ct D SI1 triple Excellent GIA with faint fluorescence for roughly $5200, a savings of $1300 dollars in order to step down from the magical 1.00ct weight and down one clarity grade. Will she notice a difference? Probably not. Does she deserve the best? Absolutely. Plus, I''d like to tell her that it is a carat and not "point 9 something" of a carat. But is that luxury worth $1300? Perhaps over the lifetime of our future marriage it will be worth it. Maybe not.

Similarly, I looked at a 1.05ct E VS1 triple Excellent with an EGL International cert (not USA) for $5900. I find myself tempted by these EGL diamonds because they appear to be the best value, however I can never get over the notion that what I''m really paying for is a F VS2/SI1 with ratings less than their GIA equivalent. I''ve been staying away from EGL diamonds mainly because I do not believe they are what they are advertised by GIA standards. I know that diamond grading is subjective, but the market doesn''t lie. If there are two diamonds with the same specs and one has a GIA cert and the other with an EGL, the EGL will be cheaper. Now, that begs the question that do the two diamonds really have the same specs? EGL would have rated it higher and GIA would have rated it stricter.

Alternatively, how about a 1.25 G VS2 triple Excellent for $8000? This diamond would look larger than a 1.00ct D VS2 but not as clear. I love the color clarity in the colorless diamonds, but is it worth stepping down into the near colorless grade to get a 1.25? My eyes are color sensitive to the difference between a D and G. After seeing the D/E color range and comparing them to the G/H, I doubt I could go for something less. But at the end of the day the diamond is not for me. For those of you ladies or those with girlfriends/wives, what do you prefer? Purity or size?

I appreciate any responses and opinions I can get. I know this was a long winded read but I need to get some of this off my chest, and what better place for it than pricescope? Thank in advanced for your support!

 

[cemrn]

My priorities as a woman are:
1.sparkle- ideal cut is a must for me
2. size-also an ideal cut stone will usually face up bigger
3. color-I am not super color sensitive and love stones in the G-I range
4. clarity- as long as it is eye clean I am good with it. My diamonds are VS2-SI1

For example I personally would never pay for a D color. I''d rather get a bigger size in say a G color. That''s just my 2 cents. But really you need to feel out what your girlfriend''s priorities are.

 

[slg47]

A few things to consider...

Going with an E/F instead of a D should net you some significant savings, and will still keep you in the colorless range.

Also, you mention that your budget has spiraled out of control...make sure you are staying in a comfortable budget for you.

I think all women are different-some will prefer size, some will be really sensitive to color...but I think most would agree that a well cut G is very nice (and should face up pretty white)? However if you really want something in the colorless range then you should get it (more of a ''mind-clean'' issue). Same with clarity, most people on PS just want eye-clean (I think), but some people like having the higher clarity grades...

Anyway, good luck with your search for the perfect ring, I''m sure your future fiancee will really appreciate all of the effort you have been putting into this.

 

[LGK]

When a diamond is set, the difference between colorless and near colorless range is pretty dang difficult to discern for most of us. Especially when it's in motion on someone's hand. Personally, there's not a chance I could tell the difference between D or F, probably even G, in a diamond set in a ring with the profile hidden. And I see a lot of jewelry every day at work.

there's a big difference between viewing loose diamonds next to each other upside down on a white background, and real life wearing it. I'm pretty average in terms of color sensitivity and I don't really see much color in a diamond generally until around J/K, when it's in a ring.

So long winded spiel short, I'd prefer size over color every time.

If I were trying to get a colorless diamond on a budget I would probably go for a fluorescent stone. They are discounted, and you don't see the effect of the fluoro except in sunlight and frankly some fluorescent diamonds don't do anything different in the sun than regular non-fluorescent diamonds do. (I had a strong blue fluoro diamond, and every time I thought I was seeing the bluish look in sunlight, it turned out it was just reflecting the blue of the sky same as the other diamond I had on my other hand). And personally I love the look of a hint of blue. Decades ago colorless diamonds with fluoro were prized and called "blue-white". There's only a small fraction that have an unpleasant over-blue look in sunlight, and I believe that the over-blues are strong or very strong fluoro.

Can you find out what your GF wants? You can, of course, ask us here what we would want (and most of us sure don't mind telling you

!) but it really is all about *her* preference, and your budget.

 

[Jsmith8]

Date: 5/1/2010 11:30:45 PM
Author: cemrn
My priorities as a woman are:

1.sparkle- ideal cut is a must for me

2. size-also an ideal cut stone will usually face up bigger

3. color-I am not super color sensitive and love stones in the G-I range

4. clarity- as long as it is eye clean I am good with it. My diamonds are VS2-SI1


For example I personally would never pay for a D color. I''d rather get a bigger size in say a G color. That''s just my 2 cents. But really you need to feel out what your girlfriend''s priorities are.

+1

My ideal diamond would be

Clarity: VS2
Size: 1.25 - 1.50
Color: H

I think you really need to consider lowering some of your preferences!

 

[HVVS]

I think that in the 1ct to 1.25 ct range, a G would not be too much color. I used to own a 1.19ct 6.85mm G. I once placed it between two colorless CZs, got them mixed up,and actually had to study them to see which was the diamond. I am currently wearing an F color, and it''s plenty white enough. There are people who don''t like D color because it looks too much like a cz to them.

If you''ve looked at them unmounted, an H can look rather brown. But even H, when mounted, is white. In the sizes you''re looking at, if the H color is in the top half of that grade (toward G), you''d probably not notice tint in the mounted stone unless it''s placed next to a stone of D-F range. "I" color is generally where most people start to notice tint. I have diamonds of F color down to M, including a J or two. J is the color that I think is too tinted (for me) for an e-ring in white metal. Even Tiffanys and lost of good jewelers that carry AGS graded stones usually stock down to I color.

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Congrats on this impending purchase!

I would never pay for a D. If it were me I''d look in the E-F-G VS2 range and I would strongly prefer size as opposed to D color (which IMO often does look kind of like CZ for some reason, while E-F-G look icy white and lovely. I would rather my DH saved some cash and got a ring that looked like a carat but wasn''t quite, but I totally understand your desire to hit the carat mark and I think for you that sounds like the best choice.

You may want to check out Brian Gavin Diamonds and Good Old Gold as well. James Allen can have the lowest prices, but their upgrade policies are not the same, and you have to really check the numbers and pics b/c there are some less great diamonds in the mix as well.

Since you are picky, I would not buy an EGL diamond for an engagement ring--the grading is often much easier than GIA/AGS and you will not get the same quality at the same grades.

Brian Gavin''s site seems to be down for maintenance right now. Their Tiffany setting (the $750 one) is ones of my faves, I think I like it even better than the "Real" tiffany.

Good luck!!!

 

[CharmyPoo]

I agree with Bella's comments. You should really take a look at BGD's signature collection. I was hoping to recommend a few but their site has been down for maintenance for a few days.

My recommendation is to go for E to G in color and VS1 to SI1 in clarity. The sweet spot is probably an eye clean G SI1 for many. You can't see any color in G typically. I own two e-rings - one is a E and one is a G. The E is definetly whiter but it is also better cut so I am not making a fair comparison. The G has no signs of yellow at all and at times .. I actually like the white of the G better. Others are very comfortable with H but I find H is the color where some people can start to see warmth while others still find it to be completely white. There are very well cut H that appear whiter.

Based on your post, I want to make sure you know the difference between color and clarity. You said you wanted a D because it was clearer? I wouldn't say clearer is determined by color - color is strictly how white the stone is. Clearer is determined by clarity which are inclusions in the diamond. In terms of clarity, I don't ever want to see inclusions even under the loop .. the good thing is that usually translates to VS1 for me.

In terms of EGL and GIA and AGS, GIA and AGS are pretty much on par. EGL is known to be softer. So are EGL stones cheaper? Not really because once you match up on the gradings ... they are roughly the same price. As an example, a EGL graded E VS1 will be cheaper than a GIA E VS1. But EGL E VS1 could actually be a H SI2 which turns out to be the same price or more expensive than a GIA H SI2.

In conclusion, I am one who values quality over size. I have small fingers and never really want to go over 2 ct for an e-ring. Thus, I would buy E-F and VS1. However, many people want the size and would vote G SI1 as a safe spot without compromises. It's about balancing in the game of e-rings.

 

[bagelboy]

Well you are off to a good start. Remember you are shopping for a gift for your girlfriend, not yourself. What does she like? Is she color sensitive like you or she can''t tell an D from an I??? Find out what she likes, size, shape and setting preferences, ring size. It took me a whole year to find the perfect diamond for my girl.Most people see the relative size of a diamond first and formost. For example, the most perfectly cut D-IF half carat diamond will just look like another half carat, never like a 2 carat diamond. I would go as big as possible like a full carat or over and lower the color and clarity as much as possible if she is more or less an average girl and is not picky on color. Be well aware that some Pricescope vendors have very good upgrade policies. So you can start off small and go bigger later and/or in case you totally miss her ideal rock. I would look at the 1.05 to 1.25 size first, the work your way into a diamond that fits your budget best. From personal expeience her best friend knows her best but cannot keep a secret, try another avenue if you wish to surprise her. Oh, it is harder to determine diamond color once the diamond is set, so in real life even well cut I or J can look good to most people.Cut is the key.

 

[HVVS]

I agree with bagelboy, but will add the caveat that color sensitivity can be acquired. I never used to notice tint. My e-ring was G and my RHR was "I" and I never noticed any difference. Now, for some reason, I do. But G would be acceptable, and I still like my H. I see tint in that I color diamond now, from the side. It has strong blue fluor, I believe (strong or medium), and that may be why I never noticed the tint until after I'd trained myself to look for it. So, that's kind of an argument backing a H & up choice for e-ring.

 

[cfernandez]

Thanks to everyone who commented. I believe you have affirmed my belief that I should go for a bigger stone and sacrifice some color. I was able to find a nice I VS2 1.41ct that scores a 1.6 HCA score. This is in the very upper range of my budget. However, I have no sense of the actual size of the stone. My next assignment is to visit the local jeweler and have the poor sap show me some 1.00ct and 1.40ct side by side to see how much of a difference it will make (even though I won''t buy from them). I''ve searched for many color comparison and size comparison threads and have yet to find one with a 1.00ct D/E color next to a 1.40ct I color to see the extreme ends of what I can get for my money.

I am interested in seeing BrianGavinDiamonds, are they similar to WhiteFlash? I appreciate the pictures and separation of quality that WhiteFlash appears to have (ACA, Premium Select, etc...). Does anyone know when the site will come back up? I''ve also been finding some very clean looking diamonds on JamesAllen.

I''ll keep you all posted on my decision and eventually upload pics of whatever I decide to go with. Thanks to all who comment. I appreciate any more comments/ideas you can provide.

Thanks!

 

[LGK]

For most people an I is plenty white, however it can vary from person to person. I do agree that *size* is absolutely what people notice above all day-to-day. Other people looking at a ring on your hand almost never notice color, even in my M colored antique diamond.

You may want to cruise over to a bricks & mortar store that carries well cut and well graded diamonds- like Jared's Peerless line, or Hearts on Fire- just to get an idea of what a well cut diamond's color really looks like.

In sizes under about 2 carats, a small weight increase can be pretty noticeable. A 1.4 carat looks significantly bigger than a 1 carat IMO.

Brian Gavin diamonds has a great reputation here on PS, and from what I understand BG was the originator of the A Cut Above line at Whiteflash before he opened his own business... I am pretty sure that's how it went anyway

 

[RingSighs]

Wow! You sound a lot like me. I started off wanting a D-F diamond, eye clean, at least 1 carat, with an ideal cut. In fact, I had pretty much determined that only a hearts and arrows diamond would work. After perusing hundreds of diamonds both in person and online, I found nothing I was sure met all my requirements in my price range. Fellow pricescoper posts convinced me that D-F wasn''t worth the extra premium, and I warmed up to looking at diamonds that went down to about J in color. That opened up a world of options!

Then I discovered that my girlfriend didn''t even like round diamonds. She really liked cushion cuts beacuse she felt they were more unique. No one she knows has a cushion cut engagement ring.

Once I started shopping for those, I fell in love with the allure of antique stones. All of a sudden, ideal cut and ice white color no longer mattered. It took months to find one I really liked, and even better, it didn''t break my budget.

So my advice, make sure you know what she wants.

You might like the icy white stones, but she may prefer some of the lower colors due to their "warmth." Rareness and beauty are not the same, yet a lot of the price in a diamond is based on the rarity of its characteristics. It''s very possible that the diamonds she considers MORE beautiful cost less than the range you''re looking in.

Good luck on the search!

 

[Bella_mezzo]

Ditto LGK-Brian created the ACA cut at Whiteflash. His website is very informative, but unfortunately is down for maintenance right now.

That I VS2 sounds promising. If you post the link and/or numbers people will weigh in and let you know what they think.

 

[PumpkinPie]

Date: 5/1/2010 11:30:45 PM
Author: cemrn
My priorities as a woman are:

1.sparkle- ideal cut is a must for me

2. size-also an ideal cut stone will usually face up bigger

3. color-I am not super color sensitive and love stones in the G-I range

4. clarity- as long as it is eye clean I am good with it. My diamonds are VS2-SI1


For example I personally would never pay for a D color. I''d rather get a bigger size in say a G color. That''s just my 2 cents. But really you need to feel out what your girlfriend''s priorities are.

I agree 100% with cemrn

 

[cfernandez]

Sure thing. Take a look at this and let me know what you think.

1.41ct I VS2 AGS 000

It scores a 1.6 on the HCA scale, looks beautiful in the picture. The only thing I can ding it for is perhaps its H&A symmetry is not even. What do you guys think?

 

[yssie]

Date: 5/2/2010 11:53:07 PM
Author: cfernandez
Sure thing. Take a look at this and let me know what you think.

1.41ct I VS2 AGS 000

It scores a 1.6 on the HCA scale, looks beautiful in the picture. The only thing I can ding it for is perhaps its H&A symmetry is not even. What do you guys think?

numbers look good, request IS

 

[HappyNewLife]

I personally would want something BIGGER, but keep the cut to ideal and step down to G and eye-clean SI1 or SI2. I don''t care if there are inclusions under a loupe

 

[HVVS]

Date: 5/2/2010 11:53:07 PM
Author: cfernandez
Sure thing. Take a look at this and let me know what you think.


1.41ct I VS2 AGS 000


It scores a 1.6 on the HCA scale, looks beautiful in the picture. The only thing I can ding it for is perhaps its H&A symmetry is not even. What do you guys think?

Ask about the comment "clouds not shown" on the cert.


G & H stones thread is another thread that you might look at , if that diamond doesn''t work for you.

 

[stone-cold11]

Date: 5/3/2010 12:02:09 AM
Author: yssie

Date: 5/2/2010 11:53:07 PM

Author: cfernandez

Sure thing. Take a look at this and let me know what you think.

1.41ct I VS2 AGS 000

It scores a 1.6 on the HCA scale, looks beautiful in the picture. The only thing I can ding it for is perhaps its H&A symmetry is not even. What do you guys think?

numbers look good, request IS

Ditto.

 

[cfernandez]

Thanks for the comments.
I''ve went ahead and asked JamesAllen to take additional photos of the stone, including idealscope, hearts and arrows, and to see if they can pinpoint the "additional clouds not shown".

On another note, BrainGavinDiamonds appears to be back online today. I''m happy that I can go to another website to look at more inventory. I''ve been looking at their Signature diamonds (which appear to be the only ones they take pictures of) and they are gorgeous. The photography style accentuates the hearts and arrows more so than any other website I''ve seen. The problem is I cannot find any inclusions in these gorgeous pictures because they are too bright!

What do you think of stepping up in color from an I to a G, down in size from a 1.4 to a 1.2, and down in clarity from a VS2 from an SI1. The diamond at JamesAllen is a 1.41ct I VS2 AGS 000, the signature diamonds within my budget at BrianGavin seem to be 1.2ct G/H SI1 AGS 000.

What can you tell me of these premium hearts and arrows diamonds like the "A Cut Above" from WhiteFlash or the "Brian Gavin Signature" from BrianGavin, are these worth the premium compared to those diamonds that are triple Ideal/Excellent and score below a 2.0 HCA? So much is made out of hearts and arrows, and I know from reading the multiple posts on pricescope that there is no defined standard for hearts and arrows which makes valuing these cuts more difficult. Is it more of a symmetrical harmony that when you look at a hearts and arrows diamond, you see the perfect pattern but it really makes no difference with respect to light return, fire, brilliance, etc...?

 

[HVVS]

Compared to my other non-H&A diamonds, my H&A has better all-around performance in all types of lighting. It is full of fire outdoors in the sun. I have a diamond at Brian's to be recut.

I don't really see the "pattern" except for flashes off the arrows. The better symmetry helps the light return. My diamond is a good performer even when dirty. My lesser cuts, and the diamonds with the huge tables, have to be kept a lot cleaner or the performance drops off, imo. This is my diamond. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/5380/ Put BR135FSI210114008 in the diamond ID number box for Live Report at gemex.com will show you the live picture.

The August Vintage rounds are also good performers but have an entirely different facet pattern. Symmetry helps performance, I believe.

I'd rather buy from GOG or BDG or WF than JA. JA doesn't seem to carry the best cuts or the cleanest stones. As others mentioned, the JA upgrade policy isn't really attractive, either.

 

[cfernandez]

I inquired about a 1.00ct D VS2 AGS 000 from WhiteFlash, one of their "Premium Select" diamonds for $7400 with PriceScope/Bankwire discount. See link below.

1.00ct D VS2 AGS 000

I spoke with one of their reps about the price, who informed me that the price was actually going to go up tomorrow and that it is currently priced incorrectly. What do you think? I don''t think its a fantastic deal, not to mention I feel like WhiteFlash is trying to pressure me into buying the diamond. When I heard this I was turned off immediately. However, I''d like your opinions. The diamond scores an HCA of 1.6 and the idealscope shows a little light leakage.

I still have no idealscope or h&a images from the diamond at JamesAllen. I will post those as soon as they are sent to me. What do you guys make of these proprietary hearts and arrow cuts? It seems that to get a WhiteFlash "ACA" or BrianGavin "Signature", you could for the same money step up a clarity or color grade and still stay within triple Excellent/Ideal and under 2.0HCA. Anybody else with an opinion of what to do with $7500 to spend on a Round Brilliant diamond, go ahead and chime in

Thanks again for your comments.

 

[CBL]

Personally--for $7500, I would want bigger than 1 carat. To me a G is blindingly white. I would take up to a J, and get the biggest eye clean stone I could get.

 

[slg47]

Have you seen the different sizes in person? That may help you decide. Also keep in mind what size fingers your gf has, if she has thinner fingers a smaller diamond will look bigger. Do you know if she prefers a larger or smaller diamond? Some women (mostly not on PS

but there are some) actually like a smaller, more understated look!

I don''t personally think it is worth paying so much extra $$ for a D color. Even if you want colorless, an E or F will be much more affordable. G/H/I will be more affordable still, you just have to decide what you want. You can probably get a better deal with the $7500 than going with the D, also that would force you into an early decision. Unless the deal is really good and it''s exactly what you want, you shouldn''t go for it. You''ll probably benefit at least peace of mind wise from making a more informed decision and taking your time.

good luck!

 

[cfernandez]

Thanks for your comment. That is the most recent direction I''ve been going in, trying to find the biggest well cut stone within $7500. The best I''ve found so far was the one at JamesAllen that I linked a coupe posts above. That was a 1.41ct I VS2 AGS 000 for roughly $7200 with PriceScope and bankwire discount. Can anyone link to any other stones similiar in size and price?

Alternatively, what do you think about a 1.2ct G SI1 Brian Gavin Signature? That seems to be the same money. My question is, is the money worth it and the cut considerably better?

1.2ct G SI1 Brian Gavin Signature - scores 1.8 HCA EX/VG/VG/VG

1.41ct I VS2 AGS 000 James Allen - scores 1.6 HCA EX/EX/EX/VG

PriceScope Size Comparison Thread

Thanks again for your comments.

 

[stone-cold11]

What is her ring size?

 

[cfernandez]

I''m assuming she''s a 6.5-7. She has a ring that she never takes off, I haven''t been able to take an imprint of it, but I put it on my ring finger and it came up to about my knuckle. I tried rings at Zales to see which one would go equally up my ring finger, and I the sizes from 6.5 to 7 all fit the bill. Is the general consensus that 1-1.2cts is to small for that size?

 

[stone-cold11]

From the size comparison thread.

Depends on how much coverage you want.

 

[cfernandez]

I received the IdealScope of the JamesAllen diamond I was looking at. Let me know what you think. I''m having trouble attaching the image in my post so I linked to it. I also linked to the diamond description on JamesAllen.com. Let me know what you think.