EMERGENCY...NEED BUYING ADVICE QUICK!

[joeq]

The difference between a H&A ideal with a great cut and an 8* is (in my opinion) 98% light return vs. 99% light return. The 'trick' of an 8* is (from what I can tell) they tweak the girdle and minor facets to get you "all red" on the Firescope (especially around the parameter of the stone). You'll have to decide for yourself if this minor tweakage is worth the 75% markup.




They will argue that 8*s look larger (the whiteness on the parameter of a non-8* is "dead area" so it "doesn't count"), and the color will appear up to 3 grades better.




3 grades better than a typical stone, I would definitely agree with.


3 grades better than the worst possible ideal cut, perhaps.


3 grades better than a great ideal cut, no way in hell.




Furthermore the Firescope only evaluates light return from 90 degrees perpendicular to the table. There is some evidence that the 8* tweakage actually increases light leakage from light coming in at other angles, as compared to an untweaked stone. The fact 8* looks the best under the Firescope is obvious: They invented the Firescope and then came up with the 8* cut to get the best look under the Firescope.




I compared my stone to a (much smaller) 8* under the Symmetriscope with Richard von Sternberg, creator of 8* in America. There *was* a difference under the scope, but even Richard agreed that there wasn't an $8,000 difference.

 

[domer]

I have a whole new understanding of the old adage "Ignorance is bliss." Without my new found education, I would have just walked into Tiffany's, dropped down the plastic, and walked out with a ring that she would have loved, and I would have been confident in. Ah, if I only had taken the blue pill

So as much as it pains me, I'm starting to think pulling off this timeline isn't going to work. I've been working with Bob at WF on one of those diamonds, and he's put together some great work for me on such short notice. But I think if I'm going to go 1.5ct, I want to try and get something in a G. I guess I'm a little more flexible on the color if I can see some significant size gains. I'd like to hear more about the GOG diamond that's been the talk of the town, but I haven't been able to touch base with Jonathan. GOG has some more great rocks coming down the pipe too. What do you guys think of these?

1.65ct G VS1 http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_65ct_g_vs1_h%26a.htm

1.74 H VS1 http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_74ct_h_vs1_h%26a.htm

1.88 G SI1 http://www.goodoldgold.com/new_page_58.htm

I know I'm surpassing my budget by a couple of thousand now, but these are pretty tempting. So is it safe to say that the overall consensus is "don't worry about a balance (e.g. G-VS1), but more or less try and get the best color you can get out of an eye-clean stone"? I originally came in targeting G-VS1, but revised to G-VS2. But is a G-SI1 the way to go if the stone eye-clean and the price is right? Do most women prefer size or the satisfaction of knowing their diamond is of the VS grade instead of SI?

PS - On a side side, I just found out my car needs more repairs than it's worth. This was quite the unexpected surprise, and it put all of your advice on saving some $$ and not blowing it all on a ring in perspective

 

[domer]

Oh yeah, and the 8* is out. I'll go into the jeweler tomorrow to see, but there's no way I'm paying that premium. The marginal utility just isn't there.

 

[valeria101]

Sorry to hear that your diamond chase turned out stressful... Hopefully, you know what you want by now (including getting it done) and, however, some PS buyers had put month into this (imagine THAT).

Those three pieces are great, but the third looks like very good value compared to the rest. At this stage, it sounds like it is time for you to get a few nice-by-the-numbers stones infront of you (and these surely qualify), forget that loupe and choose. My prediction is that all three will be as white and clean face-up and the 1.88 would be the largest (and it is not the most expensive either). The one way to check is to track Jonathan down (did you try to e-mail him through his Pricescope contact?). I know he had lots of work lately, but for the sake of Pricescope... From what me Pricescope experienec is worth, you may be able to meet with a cheaper 1.9, G-SI in the future, but it is unlikely that it will hold a candle to this.

I did not go through all those posts (ok, there are lots!), so I don't know what are you going to do for the setting. If you started out at Tifany, you may want to check the CC Tiffany settind put up at Niceice (I don't think you need to get the stone from them).

 

[strmrdr]

That 1.88 looks real nice.
Out of the ones so far it would be in the top 2.
with the 1.71 I being the other.

imho you would likely be better off holding off until you get your car situation straitened out.

 

[diane5006]

Hi sorry to hear you are having a stressful situation...

Just as an FYI GOG is closed on Mondays...

You can try e-mailing him via his website

goodoldgold@earthlink.net

Best of Luck in your search

 

[diane5006]

Oh also I like the 1.88 if he says it is eye clean (it will be)...he will tell you otherwise...

second choice 1.74

 

[domer]

I emailed Jonathan through PS, and I'm sure I'll hear from him soon. He's probably swamped at work now, and I know how that goes. As far as it being stressful, the stress is most likely a function of everything that's going on right now (the holidays can be rather hectic), combined with the collapsed timeframe I'm working with (all my doing). Not to say I'm not having fun. This journey has been a rush, to say the least

 

[fire&ice]

If I recall correctly, last year Jonathan opened on Mondays before the holidays. I don't know if he is doing that this year as well.

 

[Mara]

With your tight timeline, why don't you call him directly? Pscope is great and all but sometimes emails can get lost or overlooked, esp in holiday madness. All the vendors are very busy, so I would just call and ask for Jonathan. You may find out that in 10 minutes all your questions are answered instead of waiting precious, confusing days for a response.




I love the 1.88 -- it's G which is super white and the SI if its eye clean makes this a spectacular deal. It's still a good # budget wise as well. Plus of course I LOVE the size.

Still think the 1.65 H SI is a great consideration if it's eye clean, because trust me, you will not see one iota of color difference in that stone. My G e-ring vs my H Regent looks the darn same except the H is more sparkly because its better cut. So I would not rule out H at all. Esp for a savings of $2k or so. Not petty cash.

 

[diane5006]

Hi domer if you have not him yet...

e-mail him directly @

goodoldgold@earthlink.net

Not through P-scope...

 

[domer]

So I talked to Jonathan, and got some information on a new bunch of rocks that came in. Here's what I've narrowed to three stones:

1) 1.65 G VS1 - $15,357 with setting http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_65ct_g_vs1_h%26a.htm

2) 1.74 H VS1 - $13,780 with setting http://www.goodoldgold.com/1_74ct_h_vs1_h%26a.htm

3) 1.88 G SI1 - $14,298 with setting http://www.goodoldgold.com/new_page_58.htm

The 1.88 is eye clean and Jonathan says it's a great diamond. However, I'm leaning towards the 1.74. The 14pts will mostly likely be negligible to her, and I like the H-VS1 combination. Throw an H up against a G, and she'll probably have trouble telling the difference. And if I'm really uptight about getting both clarity AND color, I could always splurge on the 1.65.

Final thoughts?

 

[Daniela]

Domer,

I think that's a beautiful choice. She'll be proud of her VS-1, and yes, H in one of Jonathan's stones is plenty white.

I can't wait to see pictures!

 

[Mara]

What happened to the 1.65 H SI1?




I would go with the 1.88 over the 1.74. Why? Because I think clarity is foolish to spend extra money on, but carat size and color is not. If you have the option to get a G colored, significantly larger stone (and yes it will be visibly larger) and not waste your $$ on clarity, IMO that is the way to go. Esp for only $500 more. If the H was an SI and was more like $12k...I'd probably say go with that. Clarity is always at the bottom of my list. No one knows anything more than 'I can't see anything'.




Nix the 1.65..too expensive for what you are getting. 2nd choice if you don't go the G SI would be the 1.74...though again I'd much rather have a G than an H and SI over VS to get that jump. Visually there probably won't be a difference in the actual color, but IMO color is worth more than clarity.

My two cents!

 

[strmrdr]

The biggest problem is that any of the gog diamonds would be awesome!
Id be inclined to go with the 1.88 for the same reasons mara mentioned.

 

[domer]

Someone swiped the 1.65 out from under me!

 

[Mara]

Darn!!




The 1.88 IS image looks darker (better) but that could just be the lighting.




The 1.88 BScope looks better too on Scint, Fire and Brilliance are about the same.




The Bscope animations on the 1.74 seem to POP at me more but to be honest they are very similar though I like the blue flashes of arrows on the 1.74 in one of the light views, very intense.




Both have Isee2 of 9.8 which is excellent of course.




Bottom line both stones are going to be knockouts. I would still go 1.88 because I like the extra size and G color for $500 more.

Bang for your buck. And diamond shrinkage happens to the best of us.

 

[sxn675]

I'm with Mara on this one - go for the bigger size! Of course if you really like the 1.74 stone, then don't let us sway you. Good luck and let us know what you decide

 

[Patty]

I'm also chiming in for the bigger, G colored stone!

 

[fire&ice]

I'm with the board mentality on this one - Take the 1.88. Pay the cash that you have and drop down to under 14k. 4k more than I think you should spend; but, Mara can chime in with practical schmactical. Looks like a sizable white stone. It will knock her out.

If you think this is the one, make your decision quickly. I have a feeling that many "eyes" watch pricescope & snake some of the listed stones.

 

[domer]

So the decision has been made, and the wheels are set in motion. I'm going forward with the 1.74 H VS1. I know that most everyone had voted for the 1.88 G SI1, so I'll feel it important to detail my thought process and why I decide to "go against the board" on this one.

When I was deciding between the two, I kept reminding myself over and over that since I am not planning on reselling this rock, the value of the diamond itself lies in the perception of it. If there's one thing I have learned from you all, it's that there's SO much more to diamonds than the 4 C's, and the grades on the certificate don't even begin to tell the story. I know that an eye clean SI1 can be 10x more beautiful than an IF stone with the same color grade because of the difference in how a stone is cut. I also learned that no matter what "imperfections" you may see in a diamond under magnification, the only thing that matters is how it sparkles, and whether or not it is "eye clean". That said, I'm fairly confident that to most everyone that takes a look at these diamonds, only a discriminating few would even be able to tell the difference with the two of them side by side (with the exception of one being slightly larger). Since (IMHO) visual preception of both of these diamonds should be roughly equal, that leaves us with the psychological and sociological perception of the diamond.

Most people don't know anything about diamonds. And for the some that do, they only know of the 4 C's that they learned about from a brochure they got from a mall jeweler. For the public majority who only know enough about diamonds to be dangerous, and who probably haven't even heard that term "eye clean", SI = not that good. I don't agree with it, but I know that is the case, because I was once one of them. While I'm much more enlightened now, I know that most people haven't taken the time to give themselves this level of education on the subject. Now, I know my GF is going to LOVE anything I get her. She'd be thrilled with ANYTHING, and she sure as hell isn't expecting something nearly this big (I've set her expectations much lower). If I told her honestly that I felt the SI1 is an incredible diamond and that the SI designation is virtually meaningless because the diamond is eye clean, she'd stand by that 100%. That said, I know all of her friends are starting to get engaged, and some of them getting a "rough and dangerous" diamond education and forming negative perceptions against SI stones. I want her to feel comfortable showing off her ring to everyone. I want her to be able to say, it's a VS1, and feel comfortable sub-consciously knowing that this is a remarkably "pure" stone. Now, I know the same can be said about the color grade of the 1.88 vs the 1.74, but I think the straight up math would go as follows. Why sacrifice 2 clarity grades for 1 color grade? To me and you and everyone else in this forum, we know that these grades are loose at best, and all that matters is what you can see. But the average joe doesn't have our level of education on the matter. Not that I care what the average joe thinks about my fiance's ring, but you guys see what I'm getting at...

So that leaves us with size. I'm pretty confident that that 1.74 is going to get the bump to "one and three quarters" when she's telling everyone how big it is. But the 1.88, while I'm sure noticably larger, is kind of in no man's land. He's too light of 2 to give him the bump, but too far above 1 3/4 quarters to do him that disservice. So basically, while I think the 1.88 would have been awesome, I don't think it gives the diamond that much of an "added value" in her eyes. And if she starts to experience some "diamond shirnkage" at 1.74, I think we may have bigger problems than just her ring

So where does that put me? Basically, I think that while the 1.88 is probably the better value of the two given the nature of the inclusions, the 1.74 is the safer bet for me. I'm confident that it is going to have the size to give it that "wow" factor I'm shooting for, the sparkle that I've been expecting from a true H&A, and will show wonderfully white, as I've heard most all of Jonathan's rocks do.

Thanks again for all of your help and feedback, and I'll get you pics as soon as I can!

PS - Anyone have advice on a box? I went with the white leather b/c I thought I liked it better than the black, but the "light" inside the box may be a bit hokie. I may be able to use it to my advantage though, as I'm thinking nighttime proposal

 

[strmrdr]

Congrates!
It doesnt really matter what we think and if you feel that was the right diamond for you/her then thats great! That is what counts.
Like I said a few posts back you cant really go wrong with any of gog's diamonds.

Good Luck! and congrates!

 

[diane5006]

Congrats...any of the stones would have been excellent...but you chose the one that was right for you...

I am sure your GF will love it (almost as much as she loves you

)

As for the box...I have the one with the light in it...my BF is an engineer...so it was a no brainer for him

. The fact that he proposed in the day in bright sunlight notwithstanding...he had to point it out to me later...I think it is cute...I looked at it the other day (the spends >95% of time on my finger...and it did nake the diamong look great

Good luck with proposal

 

[Mara]

Congratulations!! Beautiful choice!! Even though I of course like the bigger size--size girl and all. What would I say about the 1.88 if people asked.....I would have said 'It's almost 2 carats'...

1.75 is a great big size too. Yum. Should be amazing!




Please post pictures when it's completed in the setting!! As for the box, I am a simplicity girl as well as size...I don't like the white leather thing...it's so Walmart.

Black leather is much classier. Hee Hee....my two cents.




Congrats!! yay.

 

[domer]

Good call on the "almost 2ct", Mara

I was thinking a black box as well...I just wasn't sure about the one on GOG...looked a little cheesy.

Just to keep you guys updated, I went into the 8* dealer today as a courtesy to look at the ring that he brought in for me to take a look at. It DEFINITELY sparkled more than the "ideal" he put it up next to, and looked about 20% bigger. But when I asked about the specifics of the "ideal", all he would tell me is that they were "the same". I SERIOUSLY doubt that, seeing as the 8* looked so much bigger, and I wanted to see some specs, but he kept shying away and attributing the size difference to the "optical magic" of the 8*. Anyway, that just gave me more reason to walk away from him, and let me just say that he was NONE TO HAPPY. He was rude and pouty, and I was shocked by his unprofessionalism. I mean, yes, I didn't end up going with him. But Whiteflash was MUCH more professional about the fact that I went with GOG, and I feel that Jonathan would have been equally as professional if I hadn't gone GOG. Didn't this guy no that even though I didn't buy the ring from him, I was STILL a potential customer for future purchases? Well, not anymore...

On a related note, even in the 8*, the J was showing as DISTINCT yellow. It kinda freaked me out a bit, and made me want to run to the phone and call GOG to switch to the 1.65 G VS1. Did I make a good call with the H? J is only 2 letter grades off of H, and to see that much yellow kinda made me worry

Am I going to lose sleep at night wishing I had gone to a G instead of an H?

UGH!

 

[Mara]

Take a look at my 'Mara' thread with 'H' pictures of my Regent. White as snow....no color. You are more than fine with H. I have a G e-ring and I can't even see a shred of color difference in the G to H. Of course better argument for 1.88 G SI....hee hee...but no I think you are more than fine with the H&A H.

 

[Kay]

I have to ask, why the rush to propose by December 18th? Is that an anniversary or other special day?

The diamond you chose should be beautiful. Please post pics.

 

[aljdewey]

YAY, Domer..........nice choice! You made a great selection, and I'm sure you'll enjoy it. Don't worry about the H.....I just got my H stone, a 1.244 from Whiteflash, and it is WHITE. Go check the thread "finally my new ring" and see for yourself. Everyone I work with has been on their knees for 3 DAYS cooing over my ring and how it sparkles!




And yes, Jonathan would have been just as gracious had the tables been turned. I had made an inquiry with him during my search, and when I told him I was going with the WF stone, he was gracious and wished me the best and expressed how delighted he was for me. These folks......all the vendors....they are really, REALLY top-rate!

 

[domer]

I wish I could explain why the rush, but to tell you the truth, I don't think there's a logical explanation. I went to speak to her parents a couple of weekends ago, and recently something just snapped in me. We've been doing long distance for about 4 years now, and we're going to be spending a couple of weeks over the holidays together. I think she expects it may happen then, but if not, then DEFINITELY afterwards. Anyway, given the context of some of our most recent conversations, I can almost certainly guarantee that she will be completely blindsided by a proposal on Thursday. I'm supposed to be hundreds of miles away on that day as it is. Plus, I'm right in the middle of incorporating a small business that officially begins operations on January 1st. Given the stress level that I've been under for getting that off the ground alone, I know she isn't even thinking it would be possible to swing something right now. So basically, there are several contributing factors, with the primary one being the element of surprise. I wasn't going to go forward if I didn't feel comfortable in finding a diamond that was completely amazing, but I think I may have done so. I guess I'll have to see when she opens that little box

 

[slammie]

Domer, congrats!! wow, can't wait to see pics!!!

I just went for an upgrade to a "H" color, 1.52 and lost sleep over the color thing too, since my previous stone was a "G". But I have to say that it's probably most likely due to excitement and nervousness! I actually tried on a 1.74 H color stone at a local B&M stone, and I could hardly hardly detect a difference from a G, 1.50 bottoms up and certainly not face up, even in natural lighting! I've read that color starts to be noticeble over 1 carat sizes, particulary at 1.50 and up. So once I saw that I couldn't detect differences colorwise frm H to G particulary in that large size, that helped me make up my mind!!

Could you detect a color difference in an unmounted D/E to G/H? most certainly. From a G to H? Not much! I've heard that once you hit I/J that's when color becomes a bit more noticeble. Of course, it I still had to ask all the regulars here for their two cents

!! heehee (thanks Mara, Giangi, Garry, Bling) I think you made a great choice and personally I agree with you on the point you made about clarity. For me, it was harder to go down to SI1 than to go down 1 color grade. Especially when bought unseen.
I haven't seen mine yet, but the appraiser highly recommended the H or the smaller G stone I was also contemplating.
I'm sure your Fiancee will be over the moon when you propose and present it to her!!