Emerald expertise needed

[alessia80]

Hi,

I really want to get an emerald stone, however i know so little about emeralds i need someone with knowledge to give me advise about the following stone:
it's said to be a stone from the Muzo mines and the measurements are 8.2 x 7.6 x 5.8mm. The asking price is 700 Euro, is it worth it?

 

[chrono]

Even if I put aside the fact that I don’t know if it is really from the Muzo mine or not, the stone I see on my monitor is so included as to be opaque which is not a good thing. I understand that most emeralds do have inclusions but you should aim for some translucency and sort of be able to see through it, which this particular stone is lacking.

 

[LD]

Oh I'm so sorry but I agree with Chrono. This Emerald really is not good. It looks way too cloudy and it lacks life. A great Emerald will most probably have some inclusions but you should be able to see the facets (think of how a diamond looks) and it should throw light off the ring and make you catch your breath.

Emeralds are, unfortunately, one of those stones that you really need to know alot about in order to buy something with a good price point that matches quality.

Here are a few examples:-

1. Emeralds can be natural without any treatment (not common and quite difficult to find) but most have been oiled - this has the effect of making the inclusions less obvious. The oil can dry out over time and may need to be re-done. It's difficult to predict how often as it depends on the amount of treatment, the type of oil used etc etc.

2. Emeralds are not considered generally to be everyday rings. They are not as tough as a diamond or sapphire and can chip/crack. All gemstones can but Emeralds do need a bit of love and care. For example, if you were to wash your hands in hot water whilst wearing the ring it could crack.

3. There are now some horrible treatments such as reconsituting Emeralds - ie. taking awful bits of Emeralds and (this is a basic description) gluing it all together to make a big gem. Of course, the longevity of this type of Emerald is much less than a natural Emerald.

4. Some Emeralds are dyed and all sorts of other horrible treatments. These DO affect price and unfortunately there are unscrupulous sellers who either don't disclose or don't know what they're selling.

5. A good Emerald can be stunning but it will have a fairly high price tag. Emeralds haven't increased much in price over the past 8 years or so though so they're a better buy now than 8 years ago!

If you search this forum, I'm sure you'll find some photos of great Emeralds and we also have a number of Vendors on this board who know a lot about Emeralds so it might be an idea to look at some of their websites.

I'm so sorry I haven't been complimentary about the ring you posted. You deserve better for your 700 Euros.

 

[alessia80]

Thank you both for the quick replies!

it's hard finding useful purchasing information about emeralds, i guess it's not as popular as the other precious stones.

i won't buy this ring then, and since emeralds aren't everyday rings, i think i'll have a pendant instead.

i've tried to search for reputable vendors on this forum who sell emeralds, but i keep finding 'emerald cut' instead. Can someone please help me?

 

[serenitydiamonds]

For that budget you could definitely find a much better stone. To be honest, it's not a good one at all, and it doesn't look like it's Muzo either. Here's a past thread on some Emerald basics:

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...emeralds.131347/?hilit=emerald misconceptions

--Joshua

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Here are a few examples:-

1. Emeralds can be natural without any treatment (not common and quite difficult to find) but most have been oiled - this has the effect of making the inclusions less obvious. The oil can dry out over time and may need to be re-done. It's difficult to predict how often as it depends on the amount of treatment, the type of oil used etc etc.

Typically not very often, with oil 5-10 years, modern treatments are permanent

2. Emeralds are not considered generally to be everyday rings. They are not as tough as a diamond or sapphire and can chip/crack. All gemstones can but Emeralds do need a bit of love and care. For example, if you were to wash your hands in hot water whilst wearing the ring it could crack.

Not entirely true, see my thread on emerald misconceptions. Many women with Emerald engagement rings have worn them every day for decades, and you'll see some great photos in Ron Ringrud's book. They need to be treated with caution, but hot water from the faucet will not cause a decent stone to crack.

3. There are now some horrible treatments such as reconsituting Emeralds - ie. taking awful bits of Emeralds and (this is a basic description) gluing it all together to make a big gem. Of course, the longevity of this type of Emerald is much less than a natural Emerald.

These treatments are very obvious and can be avoided.

4. Some Emeralds are dyed and all sorts of other horrible treatments. These DO affect price and unfortunately there are unscrupulous sellers who either don't disclose or don't know what they're selling.

Very rare and extremely obvious

5. A good Emerald can be stunning but it will have a fairly high price tag. Emeralds haven't increased much in price over the past 8 years or so though so they're a better buy now than 8 years ago!

Not true. Lighter color 'Crystals' that are very clean are definitely in your price range.

--Joshua

 

[LD]

Joshua, you have replied from a position of one who sees Emeralds presumably on a daily basis and knows/understands them. My post was written for somebody that has hardly any knowledge of Emeralds and was a bit of a basic "here are things just to be aware of". So to say that treatments are obvious etc etc - yes, if you KNOW what you're looking at or have seen Emeralds to compare!

In terms of Emeralds being every day rings - I respectfully disagree. Whilst I own one that's over 100 years old and has been treated with great care and respect AND was worn as an everyday ring for many many years, I've also seen people buy and wear Emeralds and then be surprised when they're damaged! Generally Emeralds are not sold with a care guide - in fact you could say the same for most jewellery/gemstones! However, it's a bit like Tanzanite (marketed as engagement rings) which I'm sure you would agree isn't a great choice of an every day ring! Yes, an Emerald can be an everyday ring IF IF IF the wearer knows how to treat it and isn't a labourer!

 

[serenitydiamonds]

Yes well she was asking for more education and that's an opportunity to pass her to it. There are some great books on Emeralds, some great posts, and some pictures of what the evil ones look like. ALL stones have things to avoid, let's educate the buyers not scare them away.

I agree they must be treated with care. My opinion is that it is more beneficial to explain the great care that is needed and let the buyer decide. I totally see your point of view though, totally

If your favorite stone was Tanzanite I'd give you a pamphlet on proper care, a cleaning demo, the ring you wanted, and a link to PS on proper care of fragile stones, but that's me...

--Joshua

 

[LD]

If your favorite stone was Tanzanite I'd give you a pamphlet on proper care, a cleaning demo, the ring you wanted, and a link to PS on proper care of fragile stones, but that's me...

--Joshua

It's not but I'm seriously impressed that you do that. I'm afraid that this is so often left out of the loop when a piece of jewellery is sold. I know a friend of mine purchased a Tanzanite from a high street store that came with a pamphlet that included a piece of cleaning in an ultrasonic!

I'm all for wearing, loving and enjoying even the most "fragile" of stones and you'll often see me say that gemstones are to be loved and cherished and WORN! I'd never intentionally scare somebody off from buying a Sphene or Kyanite etc etc but I think it's sensible that we also say, "hey look, if you buy this then just be aware ........"

 

[T L]

That is not a fine emerald, Muzo mine or no. See the emerald in Josh's avatar, and that's a fine emerald (and probably Muzo too, right Josh??).

The stone in your photos looks to be very poor material, and I wouldn't pay more than $50/ct. Sorry. I think it's overpriced at $700 euros.

I think anyone considering an emerald should get educated on them. There are so many different qualities and there's various clarity enhancements and to varying degrees.

 

[Pandora II]

Not only the treatments, but I've been looking at soude stones recently that look like something you'd see in Moussaieff's window in New Bond Street.

If you know what to look for you could probably detect it pretty easily with a loose stone but set it would be REALLY hard to tell.

 

[iLander]

Not only the treatments, but I've been looking at soude stones recently that look like something you'd see in Moussaieff's window in New Bond Street.

If you know what to look for you could probably detect it pretty easily with a loose stone but set it would be REALLY hard to tell.

I must have come in late, because I didn't understand that first line at all . . .

Who's Moussaiff? Is that a bad thing?

 

[colorluvr]

I got my emerald from moises721 on ebay. It came with a UGL appraisal that said the only treatment was cedar oil. The appraisal was from UGL (which I understand over values their stones "for insurance purposes"). The estimated retail value on the appraisal is $3600 which is probably total BS, but it is signed by a GIA GG, so I hope the treatment part is correct.

Anyway, they have a decent toolhaus rating with only one neutral and no negatives since 2008, and that was for a supposed chipped stone, so I'm hoping they are the real deal..... anyway, based on what I paid for mine, you should be able to find a much nicer stone than the one in your picture for your budget if you are willing to go just a tad lighter (like mine is) than the preferred deeper green color. Mine is classified as green in color with a medium tone and strong saturation according to the appraisal.

This is a picture of the vendor photo and my (lousy) photo. It is a 1.42 ct 7 x 6.96mm square EC cut stone. It's looks pretty good IRL.

 

[Pandora II]

Not only the treatments, but I've been looking at soude stones recently that look like something you'd see in Moussaieff's window in New Bond Street.

If you know what to look for you could probably detect it pretty easily with a loose stone but set it would be REALLY hard to tell.

I must have come in late, because I didn't understand that first line at all . . .

Who's Moussaiff? Is that a bad thing?

Moussaieff is a very exclusive jeweller along the lines of Harry Winston or Graff, but is very coloured stones centric - their windows have some of the finest emeralds I have ever seen. They own some of the most valuable and historic gemstones - like the Moussaieff Red: a 5.11ct red diamond - the largest vivid fancy red diamond in the world.
http://www.moussaieff.co.uk/

Soude emeralds were originally 2 pieces of quartz sandwiched together with green glue, nowadays they are 2 pieces of green beryl. Unset they are easy to ID using immersion, but set they are very hard to ID without serious lab equipment. The one's I've seen recently are fabulous.

 

[serenitydiamonds]

That is not a fine emerald, Muzo mine or no. See the emerald in Josh's avatar, and that's a fine emerald (and probably Muzo too, right Josh??).

The stone in your photos looks to be very poor material, and I wouldn't pay more than $50/ct. Sorry. I think it's overpriced at $700 euros.

I think anyone considering an emerald should get educated on them. There are so many different qualities and there's various clarity enhancements and to varying degrees.

Thanks TL, yep it's from Muzo. Typically material from Colombia falls into two classes. The lighter clearer material ('Crystals') that is more affordable is from the Chivor mine and the deeper very saturated stuff is from Muzo. Not always the case, but if you're being told a light green stone is from Muzo, the seller is probably not very accurate in his/her assessment.

--Joshua