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Emerald cut....starting from scratch

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isukendall

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 11, 2007
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I started a thread here on PS regarding shopping for an engagement ring for my GF. I had a great RB diamond picked out from Blue Nile and a solitare setting I liked from James Allen, but turns out I was waaaaay off. Evidently she doesn''t tell HER friends about these things (they all thought I was right on) but she tells MY friends about what she wants, LOL. She had some IM conversations with my friend and emailed her some that she liked. My friend didn''t want to show me, but when I sent her what I was going to get, she pointed me in the right direction. From my friend:


She did mention that she does not want/need a huge diamond - she likes emerald cut b/c it''s not ''flashy'' or glittery''

She''s not a huge fan of solitare rings with just a plain band...that''s why I am sending you this. Look at some antique styles too.

Here are a couple ideas she sent me:

http://www.kirkkara.com/#section=gallery&productid=6685D-R

http://www.jamesallen.com/products/item_58-870.asp

http://www.tacori.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SRCH&Product_Code=HT253112X&Category_Code=ENGAGEMENT&Store_Code=TACORI&Search=A&offset=40&filter_cat=4&PowerSearch_Begin_Only=&sort=&range_low=&range_high

While relieved that I didn''t go down the road of getting something she wouldn''t like, I''m a bit disappointed because I spent a ton of time finding something I thought she''d really like and learning about RBs, and not only was I wrong but have to start from scratch. And while I realize I don''t have to wear it, I personally am not a fan of these settings, or the emerald cut. But it''s what she wants, so I need to figure this thing out.



I feel like I learned the general "rules of thumb" for RB diamonds. How does this differ for emerald cut diamonds? I found that color is a bit more sensitive, and should look for G or better. I''ve also heard that seeing an emerald cut with your eyes is more important than with RBs and that you can''t go just off of specs as easily. Is this true? What kind of L-W ratios should I look for? I also like the look at "asccher" diamonds, what are things to look for there?

Thank you all for your help!
 
There was (and still is) a gorgeous EC ring still available. Check out the pics in this thread, and visit the site:

vintage emerald cut ring

Just an idea. Many of us love this ring.
 
What''s your budget. Let''s see what we can do to help!
 
Date: 9/30/2007 10:29:33 AM
Author:isukendall

While relieved that I didn''t go down the road of getting something she wouldn''t like, I''m a bit disappointed because I spent a ton of time finding something I thought she''d really like and learning about RBs, and not only was I wrong but have to start from scratch. And while I realize I don''t have to wear it, I personally am not a fan of these settings, or the emerald cut. But it''s what she wants, so I need to figure this thing out.
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Good for you for realizing and conceding this! She will thank you for it.

Anyway, I''m not an expert in emerald cuts (or any cut, for that matter!) but Gypsy is right... more help can be given if we know your budget. Then the real experts can chime in not only with guidelines, but with stones they think may fit the bill for you.

Good luck in your search!


ETA: UCLAbelle has a beautiful emerald with sidestones, I will find and post the thread. There are also many beautiful emerald-cut rings on PS that could give you some setting ideas.
 
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Hello! I thought I saw in a previous post that you were wanting to stay within a budget of $2,500 to $3500 with $3,000 being the "sweet spot". One of your original choices was a RB around .60 cts (I think).

There are a lot of things you can do.

If you want to buy the center stone separately, be sure to review the Fancy Cut grading chart in the educational section of this site. For a good emerald cut, you will want to try to stay within total depth and table ranges of between 60-65% each. Too deep and your stone will face up smaller than it should. Smaller table = higher crown = more fire and sparkle! You will probably want to stay in a higher color range of G+, as step cuts show color more readily than brilliants. My center stone is a J and it faces up very white...because it is well cut. Clarity is also important in step cuts because inclusions can be seen more readily as well - VS2 and above is where you want to be.

Good Old Gold and Whiteflash are well respected vendors on this site. I purchased my stone through WF. Both WF and GOG do splendid work and can help find a stone and a setting that are within your budget.

You will pay a premium for designer settings like Tacori. If she wants an antique style setting, take a look at Fay Cullen. I also looked at Israel Rose (estate pieces) and found these rings that might interest you.

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/item.cfm?int_item_id=1421&category_id=3

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/item.cfm?int_item_id=216&category_id=3

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/item.cfm?int_item_id=5117&category_id=3

http://www.newyorkestatejewelry.com/item.cfm?int_item_id=5069&category_id=3
 
I love my EC in a Tacori setting. I think antique looks great with ECs. Kirk Kara also has beautiful designs and I love the "charlotte." Did you mention your budget?
 
Musey~ YEA!! It''s like a mini SMTR with some of my favorites! Thanks!!
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Date: 9/30/2007 4:01:38 PM
Author: somethingshiny
Musey~ YEA!! It''s like a mini SMTR with some of my favorites! Thanks!!
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Me too!!! I''ve been drooling over Hest88''s sister''s ring, especially... today''s is the first time I''ve seen it!!
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hi!

well, i''m a new EC owner/lover, having started my stone search in the oval/round arena. i was stopped in my tracks by an emerald cut and thought, "wow!" i vascillated for a long time, worried about giving up the brilliance and all of that. then the actual learning about the specs and what they mean, etc. and got a lot of help here.

in the end i bought a stone that had a large table and most likely a low crown height (did not get the specs on it). but, i love it! i saw it in person and just fell in love and now that i own it i can tell you unequivocally that it is very lively and, in my opinion, very sparkly! i see color it in all the time. i see the steps and am mesmerized. this stone is anything but flat. i guess it''s rather classic in its appearance and it does have a large table. the depth of my stone is very good (61.8%) and it faces up very large, i think. i did want the color to be the best i could afford because of "clearness" of the cut, the steps, so i chose an F color. again, with clarity, i agree, you want to stay within the vs 1 - 2 range and others will say that the vvs-range is probably overkill and you could drop to a vs-range and increase your color. mine is a vs 1 and very clear.

when i''m in the right light the thing just flashes and sparkles. the sunlight through the airplane window made adorable rainbows all over the wall of my plane yesterday afternoon. in my closet last night under closet light, it danced and sparkled. although i have not seen many emerald cuts of good quality in person, i am very pleased with mine. not only do i have the cool symmetry of the steps to gaze into, i get plenty of fire and color and sparkle from this shape. i posted pictures of my stone most recently in the thread ''hooray for whiteflash and me'' if you want to take a look.

my l/w ratio is 1.26 and i believe the "average range" is 1.26 - 1.37 but that is personal preference. i''d look for at least very good in symmetry and polish although my stone''s polish is ''good'' and i''m fine with it.

all in all i am very happy with diamond: i got a large (for me) stone at a competitive price. it''s 2.28 cts. and it looks pretty big to me. it''s set in a solitaire for now and i paired it with a shared prong band with round brilliants so i feel like i''ve got the best of both worlds, really. the rounds are sparklers and when i see the flashes from my rings i''ll often twist the round band around to see what is making the most fire and i find it''s my EC, actually.

i love ECs and enjoy seeing others'' photos. good luck in your search.
 
for ECs i don't think you should go below an H in color and vs2 in clarity ALTHOUGH a eye clean SI1 is totally great if you can find one. most people say depth shouldn't be higher than 64% (unless you don't mind it looking much smaller than it really is) and table shouldn't be larger than 65% (or else it might look glassy). i think most look for a crown height of 10, also. oh, and don't go lower than vg/vg for polish and symmetry.

you're right about needing to judge them with your eyes rather than by numbers. you need to judge the steps and get sarin and/or idealscope images to judge light return (i don't know about the other vendors, but i know whiteflash can give these to you). as for the L/W ratio, it is a personal taste. i prefer 1.3-1.4, some don't like lower than 1.5. if you both also like the asscher cut then maybe a lower ratio would work well for you. when comparing stones and judging size, make sure you look at the mm measurement more so than the carat weight (usually related to depth) as that will be what really tells you how big the stone will look (you'd be surprised how similar a 1.2 carat can look like a 1 ct if depth is off).

as for settings, there are a lot of really beautiful ones out there! this is my favorite. if you think it is too flashy for her, i don't think there are many more elegant rings than the three stone emerald cut or a three stone EC ring with trillion sidestones. i cant' find any good pictures, but trust me, they are beautiful!

and ditto on the kudos for going with what SHE wants!

halo3432ec.jpg
 
pretty good advice so far...
first: when shopping online get pictures! pictures rule and numbers drool for making the final cut.

second: table under 65% with crown height over 10%

Third: stay away from si stones.

forth: sticking with stones under 65% depth rules out a lot of kicken stones.
The reality of today''s market and rough availability means a lot are going too be over that in the 65-68 range.
Check this thread: https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/calling-out-experts-emerald-cut-comparison-help-me-decide-b-t-these-3.69709/
The winner of my eval. and the in person viewing test was over 67% deep.
Totally kicken and him and his gal loved it.

vg/vg or better symmetry and polish improves the odds on calling in a great one.

Which beings me too the final point, work with a vendor and have some brought in odds are they aren''t going too be in stock.
Call in charges vary from vendor too vendor.
GOG has the best deal right now with no call in fees on 2 stones.
 
I recently purchased an emerald cut e-ring from Whiteflash. Thanks to this wonderful site I was able to make a well informed decision
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I knew exactly what my GF wanted and it took a while to find exactly what I wanted. L/W ratio is a matter of preference. Make an effort to determine what l/w ratio your GF likes. If possible, go with H color or better. I wanted F color, but went with a G because I found more G stones that more closely matched my criteria. When appraised, the appraiser asked me if the cert. showed E. It is very white, sparkly, and I could not be happier! I chose VS1 clarity and would suggest not to go below VS2. You may be able to get away with SI1 if the inclusion(s) is(are) in a spot that can be hidden with one of the prongs. Polish/Symmetry should be VG/VG. If you cannot find that at least get VG symmetry. If the vendor you choose provides Idealscope and/or ASET images post them and let everyone have a look. Good luck!
 
Thank you all for your advice. My budget is indeed $2500 to $3500. I''m thinking about this diamond and setting, and I''m curious as to anyone''s thoughts:

Blue Nile
0.61 ct
Signature Ideal cut
F
VS2
Symmetry Ex
Polish Ex
Depth 67.2
Table 63
Girdle med-slt thick
L:W 1.38
10.3% crown height
No fluorescence
$2250

Is this a good deal? The only obvious problem is that the depth is a bit larger than recommended. I understand this will make the diamond look smaller from above? Is there anything else I should be looking at? Again, I''m just starting to get the feel for EC diamonds.

I really like the Pave Set Diamond Cathedral setting at Blue Nile. All of the other suggestions above are great also, but I think this would look really good with the EC. http://www.bluenile.com/product_details.asp?oid=5338&page=1&show_all_pages=1&col=2&row=7&pos=20&set_shape=
 
Here''s another one I found, slightly smaller but dimensions are better (I think) and a bit more affordable:

.56 ct
Signature Ideal cut
E
VS1
Depth 62.3
Table 63
Symmetry VG
Polish VG
L:W 1.4
11.5 Crown Height
No fluorescence
Girdle med-slt thick
$1845

Is this one better than the other one (besides being a bit smaller)?
 
need pictures which Blue Nile doesnt provide.
Need to work with a vendor that provides pictures.
They can pull those 2 in for eval.
67% depth is fine....
 
Both stones that you posted from BN has potential but I cannot say for sure without pictures, and BN does not provide pictures. In step cuts like an EC, the stone needs to be evaluated for its step pattern as well. I''d suggest working with a vendor who will provide magnified photos of the stone.
 
I started looking at some Asscher cuts at White Flash also. Again, looking for some fluorescence in a stone. These are on the smaller/cheaper side, but this is keeping WF''s upgrade policy in mind as well. GIA certs and pics aren''t available on all of these, but I emailed WF and requested GIA certs, pics, idealscope images. Is an email request the best way to get this information? Also, crown height wasn''t listed on any of these. Is there some way to calculate based on other angles, or is the only way to find this with good certification?

0.53 E VVS2 D65.5 T57 Ex/Ex VS Fluor http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-318680.htm
0.50 D VS1 D65.7 T57 VG/VG MB Fluor http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-14832.htm
0.60 D SI1 D66.3 T59 Ex/VG MB Fluor http://www.whiteflash.com/asscher/Asscher-cut-diamond-102779.htm

I''d like to see the 0.60 D SI1 to see if it is eye clean, not a bad deal IMO. Does anyone know why WF only has one star rated for all their Asscher diamonds?
 
Date: 10/2/2007 10:54:43 AM
Author: isukendall
I started looking at some Asscher cuts at White Flash also. Again, looking for some fluorescence in a stone. These are on the smaller/cheaper side, but this is keeping WF''s upgrade policy in mind as well. GIA certs and pics aren''t available on all of these, but I emailed WF and requested GIA certs, pics, idealscope images. Is an email request the best way to get this information?
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email is okay but you know how it goes with emails! things get lost, filtered, etc. if you really want an answer, the best thing to do, is call.
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keep in mind, these are all virtual stones, so they would have to bring them in to have them evaluated.

Date: 10/2/2007 10:54:43 AM
Author: isukendall
Also, crown height wasn''t listed on any of these. Is there some way to calculate based on other angles, or is the only way to find this with good certification?
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you can''t calculate the crown angle, that is a variable. ''good'' certification doesn''t mean anything. the labs grade the diamonds for what they are. as long as you get accurate information and have a vendor that you can trust to look at the diamonds, you are on the right track.

Date: 10/2/2007 10:54:43 AM
Author: isukendall

I''d like to see the 0.60 D SI1 to see if it is eye clean, not a bad deal IMO. Does anyone know why WF only has one star rated for all their Asscher diamonds?
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diamonds that are not in their physical inventory and that have little information from the supplier [sic] will only have one star. you can look on their sight for more information about their rating system.

best of luck in your search!
 
It looks like these are stones from a virtual database, hence the lack of pictures, Sarin report for crown height and such. You'll have to pay a small shipping cost if you call in a stone and decide to return it. IIRC, if the stone is yuckky, then WF will not charge you a fee.

There isn't enough information to calculate the crown height, and in any case, a Sarin is the fastest and least painful way to get this information.

The single star is because WF does not have these stones at their location, thus unable to rate if these stones are good, great or poor. The fastest way to find out more about them is to give them a call. Emails can be slow or get "lost".

Also, ECs are different from asschers. She said she likes ECs but does she like asschers? Both are step cuts but different in looks. Even though I like both, my preference is an EC over an asscher (unless the asscher is at least 3 carats
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).
 
Thank you all for your help, I wanted to give an update.

I''ve decided to get an asscher cut diamond, and have it narrowed down to just a few. The one I like best, from WF:

0.54
E
VVS2
D69.2
T60
Thk-
Polish Ex
Sym Ex
Med Blue fluor

$1370

I''m trying to get pictures from WF and will post when I have them. I know VVS2 commands a premium, but it''s not a ton more than similar diamonds in VS1-VS2. Any thoughts?

Also, I''m caught between two settings:

James Allen http://www.jamesallen.com/products/item_58-1895.asp
WF http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Diamond-Settings/-Flush-Fit--Diamond-Ring_1063.htm#

I really like the James Allen one better, and it is quite a bit more cost effective, but after looking closer I''m wondering if they''re almost exactly the same thing? Perhaps I just like the angles better with the JA ring. I see the WF ring has 0.27 ctw vs 0.15 for the JA. I''ve talked to both vendors about having the diamond set at either place, but I''m starting to run out of time and not sure if this is going to be logistically possible given the time frame. Plus, I''d prefer to have it set at WF since they will take responsibility for the diamond in setting, but this will be impossible now without overnight shipping, etc.etc. So maybe I should just get the WF Flush Fit? Anyone have this ring, and thoughts of it with an asscher? Thanks!
 
Correction: symmetry VG on diamond above, everything else is correct...
 
Are there no other choices? Going with an E VVS2 is paying a bit more on these 2 C's, and so the cut will be smaller. Asschers face up so notoriously small that I just want to maximize the size for you (and her). It will also make a difference in how visible and defined the steps are to the eye. Have you looked as far down as H VS2?

As for the setting, the flush fit WF ring looks, umm, masculine. Also, the JA link says the item isn't there anymore.
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Date: 10/10/2007 1:43:02 PM
Author: Chrono
Is there no other choices? Going with an E VVS2 is paying a bit more on these 2 C's, and so the cut will be smaller. Asschers face up so notoriously small that I just want to maximize the size for you (and her). The other stats look promising. Have you looked as far down as H VS2?
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Ditto this. As an asscher wearer, I know all-to-well about this fallback! I wear a 2ct and it faces up similarly to a 1.2-1.3 round, which is a huge difference...

Mine is an G VS2 and I wouldn't dream of going higher in either C. It looks completely white and clear to me.

However, I do understand that "mental" color and clarity are very important to some people, and if this is how you feel then by all means shoot for the stars. But do be aware of the size difference for these cuts...
 
Darn, my last reply got frozen...must rewrite.

I thought the above diamond was a decent deal. I wasn''t looking specifically for premiums on color and clarity, but thought it was a good price for the step up. Also, I''m looking specifically for fluorescence, which the E VVS2 has MB. Here''s a PS search of similar size G VS2.

0.55 G VS2 68.6% 57% GIA m-stk no vg vg 4.60-4.59x3.15 $1915 $1053*S
0.55 G VS2 68.6% 57% GIA m-stk no vg vg no 4.6-4.59-3.15 $2125 $1169*
0.55 G VS2 68.6% 57% GIA m-stk no vg vg no 4.60x4.59x3.15 $2376 $1307*SP

I''ve also looked at the Divisi from WF: http://www.whiteflash.com/golden-wardrobe/Gold_Details.aspx?ItemCode=wf-4104&CategID=15

I wonder if this setting wouldn''t look right with a smaller diamond. I''ve seen pics where it looks great, but I think anything less than 0.7 ct might look too small. Anyone have something close to 1/2 ct on this ring?

I noticed they just pulled the link for the JA ring. Wierd, I just talked to some people today about it. It''s $480 and the same as this http://www.jamesallen.com/products/item_58-1897.asp but with 0.15 ctw pave daimonds and fits smaller head stones. I did find a 0.71 G VS2 at JA http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Asscher-Diamond-985851.asp, but no fluor and getting up there in price, depending on what I get for a setting.
 
.70 H VS2 55% Table 67.6% Depth 4.92x4.91x3.32 - EX VG - MB flor. = $1,554.00

Does this fit the bill a little bit better?
 
I thought you said she likes antique style settings?
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And I thought she wanted an emerald cut diamond???

I realize that they are both step cuts and as far as shapes go they are similar, but I feel they each have a very different look IMHO.

I have a stong desire for a fat EC, but do not prefer the look of an asscher on my hand. Musey, would you have been happy with an EC instead of your gorgeous asscher?

Make sure you are getting what she wants....
 
I'd recommend the Legato pave setting with an emerald cut stone. But go lower than E VVS2 to get a larger stone. A half carat asscher or emerald cut is going to be very small.

http://www.whiteflash.com/Engagement-Rings/Styles/Diamond-Settings/The--Legato--with-Micro-Pave_1071.htm#

It looks like it can take a square stone, but you'd have to ask about an emerald cut.

If you buy the diamond from WF, I highly recommend getting the setting there. If not, I'd get one locally. The only way I'd consider a JA setting would be if I were buying the stone there.
 
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