Elbaite Tourmaline and their value. Any idea?

[JewelryLover]

I purchased a beautiful Elbaite Tourmaline some while ago. I purchased it because of its color, sparkle, and cut. Elbaite Tourmalines are copper bearing but I can only find decent information on Paraiba Tourmalines (little to no help). I just wonder if they go any type of value at all? Or are they f.ex in the amethyst price range?

3.15 carats, copper needles, and is untreated.

All answers are appreciated!

 

[chrono]

Like all coloured gemstones, the purity of colour and saturation sets the price. Origin holds little value unless the first two criteria are met first. Copper bearing or not, if it doesn't have the super crazy saturation, it's should be priced as a regular tourmaline.

 

[JewelryLover]

Like all coloured gemstones, the purity of colour and saturation sets the price. Origin holds little value unless the first two criteria are met first. Copper bearing or not, if it doesn't have the super crazy saturation, it's should be priced as a regular tourmaline.

it's incredibly green or else I wouldn't buy it as I dont know anyhting about tourmalines in general. at the pictures it is located next to a tsavorite. the origin I were told by the seller is Mozambique (purchased from Thai seller at ebay). best picture I can manage to get (taken with cellphone samsung galaxy S III). top gemstone is Tourmaline bottom is Tsavorite.

 

[chrono]

If the saturation is matched by a tsavorite, then I'd say the stone doesn't exhibit the glow that one would expect for a paraiba-type stone. This should be priced like a regular tourmaline. Actually, the tsavorite has slightly better saturation.

 

[JewelryLover]

If the saturation is matched by a tsavorite, then I'd say the stone doesn't exhibit the glow that one would expect for a paraiba-type stone. This should be priced like a regular tourmaline. Actually, the tsavorite has slightly better saturation.

okay, thank you for letting me know

 

[ChrisA222]

Chrono, I have to respectfully disagree. I realize that if a Tourmaline has Copper it doesn't always mean better color..the Copper just being there, may not even be contributing to the stones color. However, I have to disagree that being Cuprian doesn't add value, even if it is strictly perceived value, into the stone. We can debate all day if the Copper really adds to the stones beauty... but, I definately consider a Copper-bearing stone worth more than a Plain Tourmaline. My opinion, and maybe people will think I am wrong...but if stone a and stone b look similar, but I know that stone b is certified as Copper-bearing, that stone is worth more to me.

Again it goes back to value of gemstones being what someone would pay for it. For ME, being Cuprian adds value, so that makes it worth more. To you, it does not, so to you, being Cuprian does not increase value. But I think since this is really opinion, its unfair to tell someone who owns a nice Cuprian, that their stone is worth nothing mroe than a comparable-colored Non-Cuprian. I mean, why do so many people go through measures to have their TOurmalines tested for Copper, if it didnt make a difference?

Just my 2 cents...normally I agree with most everything Chrono says...

 

[JewelryLover]

Chrono, I have to respectfully disagree. I realize that if a Tourmaline has Copper it doesn't always mean better color..the Copper just being there, may not even be contributing to the stones color. However, I have to disagree that being Cuprian doesn't add value, even if it is strictly perceived value, into the stone. We can debate all day if the Copper really adds to the stones beauty... but, I definately consider a Copper-bearing stone worth more than a Plain Tourmaline. My opinion, and maybe people will think I am wrong...but if stone a and stone b look similar, but I know that stone b is certified as Copper-bearing, that stone is worth more to me.

Again it goes back to value of gemstones being what someone would pay for it. For ME, being Cuprian adds value, so that makes it worth more. To you, it does not, so to you, being Cuprian does not increase value. But I think since this is really opinion, its unfair to tell someone who owns a nice Cuprian, that their stone is worth nothing mroe than a comparable-colored Non-Cuprian. I mean, why do so many people go through measures to have their TOurmalines tested for Copper, if it didnt make a difference?

Just my 2 cents...normally I agree with most everything Chrono says...

Interesting .. so what do you personally think a elbaite tourmaline is worth? or is there any good decent lab that can set a retail value?

 

[ChrisA222]

As Chrono said there are a lot of factors that determine value...I was just saying that a Cuprian stone is worth more than a regular Tourmaline, if all other factors are equal. I am not qualified to give you an estimate of your stones "value". But remember...the gemstone is only worth what someone would pay for it. I, would pay more for a Cuprian than a non-Cuprian, but Chrono would not. It would depend on who's buying the stone I guess

 

[JewelryLover]

As Chrono said there are a lot of factors that determine value...I was just saying that a Cuprian stone is worth more than a regular Tourmaline, if all other factors are equal. I am not qualified to give you an estimate of your stones "value". But remember...the gemstone is only worth what someone would pay for it. I, would pay more for a Cuprian than a non-Cuprian, but Chrono would not. It would depend on who's buying the stone I guess

Okay, I paid a decent price for it I think, so then it's OK

 

[LD]

Chrono, I have to respectfully disagree. I realize that if a Tourmaline has Copper it doesn't always mean better color..the Copper just being there, may not even be contributing to the stones color. However, I have to disagree that being Cuprian doesn't add value, even if it is strictly perceived value, into the stone. We can debate all day if the Copper really adds to the stones beauty... but, I definately consider a Copper-bearing stone worth more than a Plain Tourmaline. My opinion, and maybe people will think I am wrong...but if stone a and stone b look similar, but I know that stone b is certified as Copper-bearing, that stone is worth more to me.

Again it goes back to value of gemstones being what someone would pay for it. For ME, being Cuprian adds value, so that makes it worth more. To you, it does not, so to you, being Cuprian does not increase value. But I think since this is really opinion, its unfair to tell someone who owns a nice Cuprian, that their stone is worth nothing mroe than a comparable-colored Non-Cuprian. I mean, why do so many people go through measures to have their TOurmalines tested for Copper, if it didnt make a difference?

Just my 2 cents...normally I agree with most everything Chrono says...

Chris I apologise but I have to disagree with you. Just having copper does NOT mean a stone is worth more. I've seen some dreadful copper bearing Tourmalines. A good Elbaite and a good Cuprian and a good normal "Tourmaline" will command similar prices. The only difference is when you top over into Paraiba world!

To answer your last point about why people test for copper? That's simple! Many people think copper = paraiba (completely wrong) and saying something is copper bearing means some unscrupulous people then market a normal bog standard cuprian as a paraiba.

 

[minousbijoux]

LD: It sounds like Chris was sort of acknowledging that the real world doesn't add any perceived value, but was saying that he personally would value a cu-bearing stone more.

I agree with you - once again, color trumps. The market doesn't make a distinction between copper bearing and not, unless there is a difference in saturation and glowiness (I know I'm making up words). I know we all have examples, but I have a random tourm I picked up somewhere along the line which rivals some of the copper bearing stones I have. It certainly is no where close to a paraiba-type, but it is a very pretty, bright tourmaline. As a result, I know it would appeal to more buyers than a typical non-glowy copper bearing.

 

[minousbijoux]

About your stone, JL, I love the needle inclusions.

 

[LD]

Minou you're correct but I wanted to address Chris's statement because a perceived value doesn't mean an actual value and with Tourmalines many people have this misconception. I wanted to address it because if it goes "unchallenged" and I use that term in the nicest possible sense, people on here could read it and either be confused or believe copper bearing may be of more value. Plus, Chris disagreed with Chrono (in the nicest way of course) who was correct in what she was saying!

How confusing is that - hopefully you know what I mean though!

 

[minousbijoux]

Minou you're correct but I wanted to address Chris's statement because a perceived value doesn't mean an actual value and with Tourmalines many people have this misconception. I wanted to address it because if it goes "unchallenged" and I use that term in the nicest possible sense, people on here could read it and either be confused or believe copper bearing may be of more value. Plus, Chris disagreed with Chrono (in the nicest way of course) who was correct in what she was saying!

How confusing is that - hopefully you know what I mean though!

Got it, and completely understand. Thanks for speaking to the wider audience - always thinking, as usual!

 

[chrono]

Chris,
I understand you perfectly and accept your opinion. I feel it is about time to stop the market brainwashing by unscrupulous vendors that try to pass off copper bearing tourmaline as being worth more than an equally beautiful non copper bearing tourmaline. This has been going on for years and I feel that this type of vendors are taking advantage of unknowledgeable consumers. Why pay more for chemical content when they look exactly the same?

 

[T L]

It's very pretty. Perhaps its a chrome tourmaline, and those tend to be more expensive than your regular green tourmaline. It's also a nice large size at 3 carats. I agree with the others that it doesn't have the trademark "glow" that some copper bearings are known for, but I think it's a very nice stone. If you do plan on setting it, I would get a v-prong at the tip, since it's long and narrow and the tip would be more fragile.

 

[JewelryLover]

About your stone, JL, I love the needle inclusions.

Thank you!

 

[JewelryLover]

It's very pretty. Perhaps its a chrome tourmaline, and those tend to be more expensive than your regular green tourmaline. It's also a nice large size at 3 carats. I agree with the others that it doesn't have the trademark "glow" that some copper bearings are known for, but I think it's a very nice stone. If you do plan on setting it, I would get a v-prong at the tip, since it's long and narrow and the tip would be more fragile.

Thanks. I'm not a jewelry specialist at all but I know that it isn't a chrome tourmaline. I think it's very hard to catch on a picture as I dont have a good camera and use only my cellphone but there is just something with this tourmaline that I haven't seen in other tourmalines and I actually dont know what. There's some type of glow that I haven't even seen in real indicolite tourmalines.

I think I might send this to AGL for a prestige report just to see what they say about it. that's the main reason I were asking about the value. If it would be worth the report price of $400 or not? I did pay only $100 or something for the gemstone itself. Regarding the setting, I dont like the "V-tip" on pear mountings, I have already been thinking of this so I think I'll get it mounted in a regular setting (if I put it in a mounting at all).

 

[ChrisA222]

LD, Im sorry but I respectfully disagree...but thats what we are here for, to all express our opinions. I really don't care to continue to go back and forth about it..but I think its kind of unfair for you to state your opinion as fact. I respect you to the eth degree, and Chrono, and Minou...all of you. I generally consider all more knowlegable than I consider myself, generally speaking when it comes to gemstones.

But, unless I am wrong and there is a written value which states what types of stones are what values and what chemical compositions alter the values, I will stand by my opinion. I am a buyer, and I value Cuprian stones more than Non-Cuprian stones. I feel that it adds a component which makes the stone a bit more special. This is my opinion, and I think just as it would be unfair for me to state my opinion as fact, I think it is unfair for you to list yours as fact.

The bottom line is that a gemstone, regardless of type, is worth what someone will pay.

Also, its important to note that I absolutely agree with whats been said about unscrupulous vendors, who are trying to make very poor quality Cuprians seem extremely valuable. That, I absolutely agree is awful! I also agree that there are non-Cuprians worth more, better looking, than some Cuprians..of course! I was never debating these points at all. My point was, two identical stones, of identical qualities...I will choose the Cuprian over the Non-Cuprian every time..and, if there was a premium asked for the Cuprian, I would consider paying more for it. My opinion, not fact.

By the way LD, you don't have to apologize for disagreeing with me...hehe...we are all entitled to our opinions, and no need to feel bad for not liking mine. Not everyone will...Im not always right, either..although sometimes I think I am.

 

[LD]

Chris - chemical composition alone cannot increase the price of a tourmaline (with the exception of a Paraiba). That's fact! If you have proof that states otherwise I'd be interested to see it.

JeweleryLover - can I ask why you would pay $400 for a report for a stone you've bought for $100? The report (as I'm sure you know) won't tell you worth or value. It will only confirm the gem type and you already know that (although I agree with TL that it could be a chrome tourmaline). So I guess whether or not you get the report depends on what you want it for - it won't tell you if you've over/under paid. Wouldn't you rather have the $400 to put towards another gemstone? By the way, I love pears and I also hate V prongs BUT with some gemstones it really is advisable and with Tourmaline which is less durable, it would be wise. However if you really can't bear them then please take extra care with the design/setting to ensure you get as much protection to the point as you can.

 

[JewelryLover]

Chris - chemical composition alone cannot increase the price of a tourmaline (with the exception of a Paraiba). That's fact! If you have proof that states otherwise I'd be interested to see it.

JeweleryLover - can I ask why you would pay $400 for a report for a stone you've bought for $100? The report (as I'm sure you know) won't tell you worth or value. It will only confirm the gem type and you already know that (although I agree with TL that it could be a chrome tourmaline). So I guess whether or not you get the report depends on what you want it for - it won't tell you if you've over/under paid. Wouldn't you rather have the $400 to put towards another gemstone? By the way, I love pears and I also hate V prongs BUT with some gemstones it really is advisable and with Tourmaline which is less durable, it would be wise. However if you really can't bear them then please take extra care with the design/setting to ensure you get as much protection to the point as you can.

I think it would be interesting to see what they would grade the Tourmaline, cut, clarity, color grade, brilliancy. that's the only reason but I dont like to spend money if it isn't worth it of course so I will have to see.

I got another topic about a pear cut sapphire and mounting. as I said earlier I really dislike the "v-tip", I have made up my mind and will go with a 3-stone ring with Trapezoid side diamonds. So for corundum do I need the "v-tip", not at all, or should I choose some type of mounting that will protect the tip? I would really appreciate anyones opinion.

 

[T L]

It's very pretty. Perhaps its a chrome tourmaline, and those tend to be more expensive than your regular green tourmaline. It's also a nice large size at 3 carats. I agree with the others that it doesn't have the trademark "glow" that some copper bearings are known for, but I think it's a very nice stone. If you do plan on setting it, I would get a v-prong at the tip, since it's long and narrow and the tip would be more fragile.

Thanks. I'm not a jewelry specialist at all but I know that it isn't a chrome tourmaline. I think it's very hard to catch on a picture as I dont have a good camera and use only my cellphone but there is just something with this tourmaline that I haven't seen in other tourmalines and I actually dont know what. There's some type of glow that I haven't even seen in real indicolite tourmalines.

I think I might send this to AGL for a prestige report just to see what they say about it. that's the main reason I were asking about the value. If it would be worth the report price of $400 or not? I did pay only $100 or something for the gemstone itself. Regarding the setting, I dont like the "V-tip" on pear mountings, I have already been thinking of this so I think I'll get it mounted in a regular setting (if I put it in a mounting at all).

I wouldn't send it for a prestige report, just get an AGL fast track memo for around $60 including S&H. I only recommend prestige reports for very expensive gems that may have lots of hard to determine treatments.

 

[T L]

Chris - chemical composition alone cannot increase the price of a tourmaline (with the exception of a Paraiba). That's fact! If you have proof that states otherwise I'd be interested to see it.

JeweleryLover - can I ask why you would pay $400 for a report for a stone you've bought for $100? The report (as I'm sure you know) won't tell you worth or value. It will only confirm the gem type and you already know that (although I agree with TL that it could be a chrome tourmaline). So I guess whether or not you get the report depends on what you want it for - it won't tell you if you've over/under paid. Wouldn't you rather have the $400 to put towards another gemstone? By the way, I love pears and I also hate V prongs BUT with some gemstones it really is advisable and with Tourmaline which is less durable, it would be wise. However if you really can't bear them then please take extra care with the design/setting to ensure you get as much protection to the point as you can.

I think it would be interesting to see what they would grade the Tourmaline, cut, clarity, color grade, brilliancy. that's the only reason but I dont like to spend money if it isn't worth it of course so I will have to see.

I got another topic about a pear cut sapphire and mounting. as I said earlier I really dislike the "v-tip", I have made up my mind and will go with a 3-stone ring with Trapezoid side diamonds. So for corundum do I need the "v-tip", not at all, or should I choose some type of mounting that will protect the tip? I would really appreciate anyones opinion.

It depends, I do think the tip of a pear shaped stone is prone to damage, and tourmalines do chip easily, so I wouldn't take the chance. With corundum, it might be less prone to damage, but I do like the v-tip for that added extra confidence.

 

[JewelryLover]

It's very pretty. Perhaps its a chrome tourmaline, and those tend to be more expensive than your regular green tourmaline. It's also a nice large size at 3 carats. I agree with the others that it doesn't have the trademark "glow" that some copper bearings are known for, but I think it's a very nice stone. If you do plan on setting it, I would get a v-prong at the tip, since it's long and narrow and the tip would be more fragile.

Thanks. I'm not a jewelry specialist at all but I know that it isn't a chrome tourmaline. I think it's very hard to catch on a picture as I dont have a good camera and use only my cellphone but there is just something with this tourmaline that I haven't seen in other tourmalines and I actually dont know what. There's some type of glow that I haven't even seen in real indicolite tourmalines.

I think I might send this to AGL for a prestige report just to see what they say about it. that's the main reason I were asking about the value. If it would be worth the report price of $400 or not? I did pay only $100 or something for the gemstone itself. Regarding the setting, I dont like the "V-tip" on pear mountings, I have already been thinking of this so I think I'll get it mounted in a regular setting (if I put it in a mounting at all).

I wouldn't send it for a prestige report, just get an AGL fast track memo for around $60 including S&H. I only recommend prestige reports for very expensive gems that may have lots of hard to determine treatments.

Yeah, that did strike my mind as well, but the sad thing is that then I wont know color grading, brilliancy, or anything else that I want to know. Sending it for a gembrief wont tell me more than I already know. So I dont know.

 

[JewelryLover]

Chris - chemical composition alone cannot increase the price of a tourmaline (with the exception of a Paraiba). That's fact! If you have proof that states otherwise I'd be interested to see it.

JeweleryLover - can I ask why you would pay $400 for a report for a stone you've bought for $100? The report (as I'm sure you know) won't tell you worth or value. It will only confirm the gem type and you already know that (although I agree with TL that it could be a chrome tourmaline). So I guess whether or not you get the report depends on what you want it for - it won't tell you if you've over/under paid. Wouldn't you rather have the $400 to put towards another gemstone? By the way, I love pears and I also hate V prongs BUT with some gemstones it really is advisable and with Tourmaline which is less durable, it would be wise. However if you really can't bear them then please take extra care with the design/setting to ensure you get as much protection to the point as you can.

I think it would be interesting to see what they would grade the Tourmaline, cut, clarity, color grade, brilliancy. that's the only reason but I dont like to spend money if it isn't worth it of course so I will have to see.

I got another topic about a pear cut sapphire and mounting. as I said earlier I really dislike the "v-tip", I have made up my mind and will go with a 3-stone ring with Trapezoid side diamonds. So for corundum do I need the "v-tip", not at all, or should I choose some type of mounting that will protect the tip? I would really appreciate anyones opinion.

It depends, I do think the tip of a pear shaped stone is prone to damage, and tourmalines do chip easily, so I wouldn't take the chance. With corundum, it might be less prone to damage, but I do like the v-tip for that added extra confidence.

Okay, thank you for your response.

 

[ChrisA222]

LD, again respectfully, you have a right tp your opinion, and I have mine. I'd really not like this to proceed and become something negative on the board. I am sorry but I don't really think its fair for you to state your opinion as fact.

 

[LD]

LD, again respectfully, you have a right tp your opinion, and I have mine. I'd really not like this to proceed and become something negative on the board. I am sorry but I don't really think its fair for you to state your opinion as fact.

Chris you are so convinced I'm wrong then please prove me incorrect and show me data that proves what you say. I have already said my opinion is based on my experience of buying tourmalines over a 20 year period. If you have data that proves me wrong, please post it.

 

[ChrisA222]

LD, the only furthur comment I am going to make about this topic is that I am ready to agree to disagree. Continuing this dialogue will not accomplish anything. We've both had our share of experiences, which causes us to form opinions, but there is nothing written in stone anywhere which proves either of our cases. There is no encyclopedia on absolute values of gemstones, and/or how their different chemical makeups can alter their values. Perceived or otherwise.

 

[chrono]

Actually, there is a pricing guidebook of sorts for coloured gemstones which some vendors use as a baseline source. It lists gem type, colour grading, various carat weights, shapes and more which gives suggested pricing for each category. This book is known as The Guide and is updated every few years.

There has been discussion by several major labs in the past discussing the relationship between chemical makeup and gem type, deciding whether a green beryl can be called an emerald if it isn't coloured by chromium but vanadium. The same, too, has happened to other gemstones. Even in the case of copper bearing tourmalines, just because it contains copper does not automatically classify it as Paraiba. It has to meet a specific list of criteria so looks count for more than its chemical composition.

All the above are just extra factual info, not meant to agree or disagree with anyone but go give a little more insight on how the labs operate and pricing is determined. The Guide is merely a guide though, sort of a suggested pricing much like the diamond Rapaport.

 

[chrono]

JL,
Indicolite is the name for a blue tourmaline, not green. With a sapphire, you might be able to get away with prongs but tourmalines are softer and less durable, chipping easily. The risk of damaging a prong set tourmaline pear tip is very high, especially in bigger sizes.